Season 3 was in Panama and was shorter than usual due to the writers strike. I felt it was weak but the 4th was the dumbest of it all, we went from an elaborate jail escape to complete stupid sci-fi.
Television The Wire
- Thread starter VanNistelrater
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Season 3 was in Panama and was shorter than usual due to the writers strike. I felt it was weak but the 4th was the dumbest of it all, we went from an elaborate jail escape to complete stupid sci-fi.
Take this to the Prison Break thread.
the feck do i know right?
feck PB, The Wire season 3 here we go!
Not at all. You can like and dislike whatever you want. I loved Life On Mars and Ashes To Ashes but I know people who found them silly. I liked Arrested Development but I didn't love it the way others did. I think that 3 Colours Blue is one of the best films ever made and others think it is dull as dishwater.
etc
I know... its just im in middle of the wire season 3... not wanna keep arguing about PB, in this thread specially, so feck it (in a good way).
I still think the first PB season was epic, for sure.
Finished it. Season 5 was lacklustre but still fascinating for the most part. I really wish it lasted longer.
omg Hamsterdam
The most perfect show made IMO, but season 5 pushes the boundaries of realism.
Ends perfectly but the whole serial killer angle pulled me out of my immersion. Then again that hasn't stopped me watching all 5 season over 5 times each.
On my second viewing of S5 I actually enjoyed it a lot more. First time I didn't like the newspaper side of things aside from Gus being great, but second time around I actually quite liked it. It's just the bullshit serial killer stuff that grates with that season, especially for Lester, it's just so out of character.
Totally agree, exactly the same for me. It's just silly and it was stupid to involve Lester in it. Although I loved the way Bunk reacted to it, there was never a doubt in his mind it was completely retarded shit, and the way he deals with McNulty and Lester leads to some good acting by him, I thought. I also didn't like the weak reporter character, the one McNulty plays throughout the season to string his story along, I thought he was much too cliché, which was a sidestep The Wire usually managed to avoid, even when a character might appear cliché at first, his development would build on it and show someone with layers of grey (first that comes to mind is Sobotka who's a brilliant, brilliant character, but there's loads more). Season 5 is below the other seasons, but it's by no means shit TV and there's a lot of very good things in there. And as you point out, the ending of it is very good. Still the greatest show to ever be on TV for me, no doubt possible.
It is too unrealistic, even from McNulty's POV. As much as he wants to get the funding there's no way he'd resort to that. It feels like a barrel scraping storyline.
By no means is it bad, just poor when compared to the other 4 seasons. I just think the media angle could have been dealt with better overall rather than resorting to a relatively cliched idea.
I don't know why you have to sugar coat it. S05 was complete bollocks.
One of the subplots was complete bollocks. The season itself wasn't.
It was a pretty major subplot though, thus rendering the season itself complete bollocks.
Imagine if in the final season of Breaking Bad one of the major plot-lines was that Jesse developed the ability to travel through time. Would you just look past that and say that the season itself wasn't shit, just that one subplot?
Yeah, it's clearly on that level.
Truly, it wasn't far off.
I would've relished it if they had introduced such a plotline, especially if they'd explained it thanks to some Star Trek fanfic.
Bubbles' redemption was one of the most touching story arcs I've seen in a TV show
just finished Season 3... good good shit.
Stringer Bell
Stringer Bell
Breaking Bad did have near invincible cartoon killer twins as a major subplot for half a season, flashforwards throughout an entire season tied to a ridiculous plane crash denouement and Danny Trajo's head mounted on an exploding tortoise.
Not to mention the "bollocks" storyline in The Wire wouldn't have been remotely incongruous in BB. It was just that The Wire was so perfect and so real for 4 seasons that it felt out of whack.
Personally I felt the "nothing changes/game goes on" ending of The Wire, with it's young characters taking the place of it's originals, was far superior to the inevitable "Western-hero" ending of BB. Bollocks storyline or no.
BB was greater entertainment, it's missteps waved away because of it, but The Wire was a greater show, and so it's are likewise for me.
Tbf, the only real thing that knocks The Wire down a peg or two is Dominic West being the main character.
Not to mention the "bollocks" storyline in The Wire wouldn't have been remotely incongruous in BB. It was just that The Wire was so perfect and so real for 4 seasons that it felt out of whack.
Personally I felt the "nothing changes/game goes on" ending of The Wire, with it's young characters taking the place of it's originals, was far superior to the inevitable "Western-hero" ending of BB. Bollocks storyline or no.
BB was greater entertainment, it's missteps waved away because of it, but The Wire was a greater show, and so it's are likewise for me.
Tbf, the only real thing that knocks The Wire down a peg or two is Dominic West being the main character.
Breaking Bad was intentionally set to an entirely different tone to that of The Wire though, so when incredible circumstances and characters arose it didn't seem out of place. If it's outright realism and believability you're after then you're looking in the wrong place with BB.
You're basically saying that because BB could get away with outlandish storylines then it's wrong to criticise anything else of being too outlandish; but this just isn't the case. Same as time travelling superheroes wouldn't look amiss in a Marvel movie yet would ruin a serious movie about the Holocaust, The Wire S05 was a load of bollocks whilst somewhat similarly contrived storylines only serve to strengthen the cartoonish atmosphere of Breaking Bad.
The Wire S01-S04 is perhaps the best TV ever made. S05 though was a load of bullshit.
I've watched The Wire in its entirety three times now, and each viewing of S05 gets better and better, for me.
Well I'm about to sit down and begin watching it all again with the missus as she's never seen it, so I'll let you know in a couple of months or so when it's fresh in my mind.
I used to hate it too, man; I was even contemplating leaving it at S04 when I re-watched the whole thing again for a second time. I gave it a chance and I enjoyed it - particularly the newspaper angle and the characters there - and even more so the third time around.
I think its 'shiteness' stems a lot from the preceding season being the finest season of television ever recorded, in my view. When judged in isolation, it's actually still a good season of television.
Haven't the writers themselves talked about regret of including the newspaper element as it was something of a indulgence on their part since many of them had a history in journalism? This may be completely wrong since IIRC I was told it in a pub, but I'm told S05 was based loosely on true events and the writers went that route since it was close to their hearts considering their own background and they subsequently and perhaps inadvertently gave little thought to the viewer experience at that time.
So the "almost as stupid as time travel" story was based on true events?
I think the media angle was the right way to go. The Wire is about a city and it's machinations as much as it's about anything and the media play a big role in that. That it wasn't quite as good as its look at crime, education or politics shouldn't be a damnation of it's aspirations.
The problem was that it's events were out of character for certain people (in the police, not media) not that the focus on newspapers was wrong IMO. That side of it all held up quite well for me.
I think the media angle was the right way to go. The Wire is about a city and it's machinations as much as it's about anything and the media play a big role in that. That it wasn't quite as good as its look at crime, education or politics shouldn't be a damnation of it's aspirations.
The problem was that it's events were out of character for certain people (in the police, not media) not that the focus on newspapers was wrong IMO. That side of it all held up quite well for me.
No, it's McNulty's serial killer bollocks that's the time travelling, not the newspaper angle.
I agree that's the shit bit, but I'm still not convinced it's THAT shit. It's only jarring because it got Lester involved IMO, not because the plot went "time travelly"
Personally I didn't like it because it was a bit NCIS. It was beneath them, not because it was too out there. Was it really any more unrealistic than Hamsterdam?
Also, this was the perfect ending. The best and most satisfying of any show I've seen.
Personally I didn't like it because it was a bit NCIS. It was beneath them, not because it was too out there. Was it really any more unrealistic than Hamsterdam?
Also, this was the perfect ending. The best and most satisfying of any show I've seen.
I watch this in its entirety every year or so. I must be due another viewing soon. Can't wait for it.
I'll probably do that soon, we can be Wire buddies nahealai!
The fifth season wasn't really the writers fault, they were originally greenlit for 13 episodes, had written the plot based on that and then HBO cut them to 10 episodes due to the low ratings and they had to rewrite/condense the whole thing then as a result of it. I think the newspaper stuff would've been far more interesting had it been given the 13 episodes but due to the cut it felt like more of a side-arc than a main season plot.
I still think The Shield has the best ending of a TV show. It's an inferior show to The Wire in all aspects, but the way they wrapped up season 7 and especially that last episode and last scene was exceptional and elevated the show for me.
The Wire's ending is still brilliant, mind, they manage to make it satisfying, heart wrenching, nice for some characters, bad for others, but it's an ending that basically shows there's no end to what they've been showing us for 5 seasons. Excellent.
The Wire's ending is still brilliant, mind, they manage to make it satisfying, heart wrenching, nice for some characters, bad for others, but it's an ending that basically shows there's no end to what they've been showing us for 5 seasons. Excellent.
I know what you're saying, but for me one of the shows greatest aspects is that it doesn't really have a 'main' character, per se. Just as it isn't a 'cop show' or a 'drug dealers show' or any other pigeon hole, it's a show about every angle in almost equal measure.
McNulty is a mainstay, yes, but he barely featured in S4 for example, and others such as Bunk, Lester, Body, Bubbles etc are all equally regular.
Lester being involved was the height of its shitness, but even for McNulty it didn't sit right. He's supposedly 'natural po'lice' to use their terminology, and all about justice etc, so why the hell would he set something up that would so blatantly fall apart in court? It was all just stupid, but nowhere near stupid enough to render everything else in the season 'bollocks'.
As for Hamsterdam, that maybe wasn't particularly 'realistic', but I bought Coven as the soon-to-retire Major who was frustrated with losing the war on drugs, so I think it kind of worked coming from him.
I loved Hamsterdam. It wasn't realistic only because it's not the kind of thing anyone would dare implement (much like McNulty's serial killer tbf) but it was faithful to it's premise, and played out with great intelligence. It was a great plot line that tried to examine a solution to a real problem, like Season 4 did with Prez & Colvin in the school. That's why I'll always rank The Wire over the rest, because it's one of if not the most worthy and intelligent pieces of television ever. Despite it's blips.
I didn't dislike the ending off BB. In fact I thought it was quite good, but like RiP said about the Shield elevating itself with it's finale, I felt BB missed it's chance to, and if anything ever so slightly undervalued itself. It shouldn't have ended in ambiguity or futility like The Sopranos or The Wire because it was always a very singular story that needed a resolution, so that was fine, but it didn't feel like the ending was anything only the writers of BB could've written. It was a very standard ending for that story that really anyone could've come up with (and which in the end they'd painted themselves into a corner with the flashforwards, the gun and the ricin) and in the end none of the other characters got much of a resolution.
If I was being really harsh, I'd say what could've ended as a great Greek tragedy (or even a nihilistic feck you) ended as a big dumb cowboy film, which sort of undersold the depth of it up to that point.
If anything you could say those last 5th seasons were the antithesis of each other. BB's was fantastic with a mediocre landing, whilst the The Wire disappointed on it's run up, but nailed the finish.
I didn't dislike the ending off BB. In fact I thought it was quite good, but like RiP said about the Shield elevating itself with it's finale, I felt BB missed it's chance to, and if anything ever so slightly undervalued itself. It shouldn't have ended in ambiguity or futility like The Sopranos or The Wire because it was always a very singular story that needed a resolution, so that was fine, but it didn't feel like the ending was anything only the writers of BB could've written. It was a very standard ending for that story that really anyone could've come up with (and which in the end they'd painted themselves into a corner with the flashforwards, the gun and the ricin) and in the end none of the other characters got much of a resolution.
If I was being really harsh, I'd say what could've ended as a great Greek tragedy (or even a nihilistic feck you) ended as a big dumb cowboy film, which sort of undersold the depth of it up to that point.
If anything you could say those last 5th seasons were the antithesis of each other. BB's was fantastic with a mediocre landing, whilst the The Wire disappointed on it's run up, but nailed the finish.
I'd rather a fantastic last season which ends predictably than a bad one that gets the last scene right.
Although personally I loved the breaking bad ending.
Although personally I loved the breaking bad ending.
I don't think the Hamsterdam plot line is as far out as people suggest here. We have something not too dissimilar in Denmark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freetown_Christiania).
Wasn't Hamsterdam loosely based off something that actually happened in Baltimore while David Simon was with the cops?
I'm gonna spoiler the following cos we're not in the BB thread.
Yeah I guess that's fair. To be honest, I feel the real end to BB was two episodes earlier, at the end of episode 14. It left a lot of things hanging, but I would've been completely satisfied with that ending, I found it much more powerful.
I think maybe the problem with its ending is what Gilligan was saying all along: he kept saying everyone would feel satisfied with the ending, and indeed, on the face of it, it's definitely satisfying. It ties up a lot of loose ends and gives resolution to some characters, but it's by no means audacious or surprising (it's very predictable, not necessarily in a bad way, but it's what we expected).
But I'm not going to re-write history, I still appreciated it a lot (with some excellent scenes in the finale), and I think a part of the disappointed stems from expectation.
I think maybe the problem with its ending is what Gilligan was saying all along: he kept saying everyone would feel satisfied with the ending, and indeed, on the face of it, it's definitely satisfying. It ties up a lot of loose ends and gives resolution to some characters, but it's by no means audacious or surprising (it's very predictable, not necessarily in a bad way, but it's what we expected).
But I'm not going to re-write history, I still appreciated it a lot (with some excellent scenes in the finale), and I think a part of the disappointed stems from expectation.
Episode 14 was the last big bang where all Walt's actions caught up with them and while the last two were a bit like epilogues, they needed to exist for me. Granite state", for the fallout of the mess he had created and felina for him to try to feel some sort of teeny tiny sense of fulfilment before dying.
Personally I'm delighted at the way they handled the ending and in fact, the whole last 8 episodes.
Personally I'm delighted at the way they handled the ending and in fact, the whole last 8 episodes.
We should really be discussing this in the BB thread, but I agree with RiP. The last half of season 5 was incredible, but audience satisfaction was a rather compromised way to go out for me. I'd much rather the story teller pose something provocative or unadulterated. But that's my prerogative. I don't think these epic genre spanning super shows should exist to provide the audience with satisfying resolutions. That's what sets them apart, surely?
It was definitely the fault of expectation. And there was nothing wrong with it, it just wasn't particularly special.
The Wire ended by showing us what the whole show was all about. It was messy, it was unfair, but it was completely true to The Wire. BB ended with a really cool guy shooting a bunch of Nazis with a big gun, rescuing the princess from a tower and then explaining a really obvious earlier plot point in a phone call. It just seemed a little bit cheap for such an amazing show. Also if the show was about consequences, they they negged on it by giving him enough of what he wanted, and if it was about turning Mr Chips into Scarface, then they bottled making him truly bad till the end.
It certainly shouldn't have been surprising or twisty for the sake of it, and it was a genius show all in all, but the end was rather uninteresting in isolation. It wasn't anything powerful, or thought provoking. It was more "we should end these plot points with as much satisfaction as possible"...Which they did, all credit to them..
It certainly shouldn't have been surprising or twisty for the sake of it, and it was a genius show all in all, but the end was rather uninteresting in isolation. It wasn't anything powerful, or thought provoking. It was more "we should end these plot points with as much satisfaction as possible"...Which they did, all credit to them..
It was definitely the fault of expectation. And there was nothing wrong with it, it just wasn't particularly special.