Television The Wire

People give Season 5 a lot of crap, but I've seen the whole series twice now and I don't honestly think the drop in quality is as immense as people think; I don't think there's a drop at all in fact. People calling McNulty's fake serial killer ridiculous is true, but so was Bunny's Hamsterdam right. The only difference was that the build-up of Bunny's frustration was well-paced, so his decision to do the unthinkable was easier to digest. I believe that if the final season hadn't been shortened to 10 episodes (the previous seasons all had 12), then this one complaint could easily have been fixed. Outside of that though, I love Season 5. The finale was brilliant, and I can't think of another show that stuck the landing quite so good.

It also had some of the best scenes of the whole show's run:

 
Most people I talk to that love the show say the final season is worse than the previous 4; or just read the previous pages in this thread, and you'll see it's not an unpopular opinion.
 
okLaptop1 said:
People give Season 5 a lot of crap, but I've seen the whole series twice now and I don't honestly think the drop in quality is as immense as people think; I don't think there's a drop at all in fact. People calling McNulty's fake serial killer ridiculous is true, but so was Bunny's Hamsterdam right. The only difference was that the build-up of Bunny's frustration was well-paced, so his decision to do the unthinkable was easier to digest. I believe that if the final season hadn't been shortened to 10 episodes (the previous seasons all had 12), then this one complaint could easily have been fixed. Outside of that though, I love Season 5. The finale was brilliant, and I can't think of another show that stuck the landing quite so good.
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It still had some great scenes and it was by no means 'poor' but it was certainly the weakest of the show. It's the fact that is has such outstanding earlier seasons to live up to that is the problem.

As for the serial killer story, the problem is not so much that it's ridiculous, it's that it is so massively out of character, especially for Lester. It just doesn't fit in with what we know about him and McNulty.

I liked it more on second viewing, but it's definitely not as strong as the first four. Not 'weak', just 'weaker'.
 
Yeah it's still great TV but not a patch on the previous seasons (especially four, which was basically perfect).

Saying that, it still has one of the most satisfying finales to a show ever.
 
Rado_N said:
It still had some great scenes and it was by no means 'poor' but it was certainly the weakest of the show. It's the fact that is has such outstanding earlier seasons to live up to that is the problem.

As for the serial killer story, the problem is not so much that it's ridiculous, it's that it is so massively out of character, especially for Lester. It just doesn't fit in with what we know about him and McNulty.

I liked it more on second viewing, but it's definitely not as strong as the first four. Not 'weak', just 'weaker'.
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I don't think it was as out-of-character as you do. Like I mentioned, I think that better build-up in the beginning of the season and a clearer understand of his anger at the non-action taken by those around would have made it a lot better. And while I take your point about it not quite feeling right for Lester, I have no problem with McNulty pulling something stupid like that to get what he wanted. Don't forget that his last big victory was nailing Stringer, and he never really got to feel satisfied about it because Stringer got killed. It wasn't hard for me to believe that McNulty would do absolutely anything to nail Marlo right.
 
Cina said:
Yeah it's still great TV but not a patch on the previous seasons (especially four, which was basically perfect).

Saying that, it still has one of the most satisfying finales to a show ever.
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Agreed, that closing montage is probably the best closing of a show I've ever seen. In fact, feck it:



okLaptop1 said:
I don't think it was as out-of-character as you do. Like I mentioned, I think that better build-up in the beginning of the season and a clearer understand of his anger at the non-action taken by those around would have made it a lot better. And while I take your point about it not quite feeling right for Lester, I have no problem with McNulty pulling something stupid like that to get what he wanted. Don't forget that his last big victory was nailing Stringer, and he never really got to feel satisfied about it because Stringer got killed. It wasn't hard for me to believe that McNulty would do absolutely anything to nail Marlo right.
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Fair enough, it's all subjective at the end of the day, but it just didn't feel right to me. McNulty was an alcoholic and sure he cut corners, but he was all about justice and often described as 'natural police' etc, him committing crimes just to reach the ends he wanted just didn't feel right.
 
okLaptop1 said:
Most people I talk to that love the show say the final season is worse than the previous 4; or just read the previous pages in this thread, and you'll see it's not an unpopular opinion.
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Perhaps but I personally loved season 5. The crew were so obsessed with bringing down Marlo it sort of made sense that they'd go to such lengths after years of fighting the "higher powers".
 


An underrated scene, one of my favourite scenes in the entire show. I always liked Wee-Bey, but this scene really cemented it.
 
okLaptop1 said:


An underrated scene, one of my favourite scenes in the entire show. I always liked Wee-Bey, but this scene really cemented it.
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You got me started on a nostalgic youtube journey of the wire clips! Forgot how much I love this show. Think I'm going to have to start it over again.

Convinced a few mates to give it a chance recently and none of them have got into it, to my surprise. Some can't get past the first few epiosodes before getting bored. One got into the second series before losing interest, which I really couldn't understand.

I found maybe the first half of the first series a little slow, but stuck with it. For me it's one of, if not the, best thing I've seen on TV.
 
Yeah, I reckon if you're not into it by episode 5, then you know it's not for you. I can't fathom anyone not enjoying it though, I've never been so invested in any show like I was with The Wire the first time I watched it. And it's still brilliant after repeat viewing! One thing I love about it is how many characters there are, and they all matter; whether you're a main character like McNulty or Omar, or a supporting character like Wee-Bey or Bodie, they all have great characterizations and development over time.

I recently finished my 2nd viewing of the complete series, I'm not sure how long I'll give it before I start again again, but until then I'm watching scenes on YouTube etc. I even re-watch the depressing ones like Michael saying goodbye to Dukie at the end of season 5, despite the fact that I get sad even THINKING about that scene. So many powerful moments right.
 
Best show of all time? Season 4 has to be the best season of TV, like, ever, but I think season 2 is pretty slept on. Frank Sobotka was the man of the people.
 
The ending of Season 2 is the best of the show IMO. The closing montage in the penultimate ep in particular.
 
DWelbz19 said:
Best show of all time? Season 4 has to be the best season of TV, like, ever, but I think season 2 is pretty slept on. Frank Sobotka was the man of the people.
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I usually despise this "best ever" stuff, but for me it's easily the best tv show I've watched thus far (and those were a lot).
 
Mockney said:
The ending of Season 2 is the best of the show IMO. The closing montage in the penultimate ep in particular.
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It was excellent, I do agree. The cyclical nature of the S5 montage is great also, showing how futile all the work is, from the 'good guys' in politics and police burdened by bureaucracy, to the gangsters who try to revamp the game, Baltimore always wins. I loved the penultimate scene of S5 with Marlo too, that was excellent. One of the most powerful scenes in the show, but I think the Stringer/Avon last words takes that crown.
 
Started watching this on the weekend. Is this thread full of spoilers?
 
I honestly remember feeling depressed when I finished watching it knowing I would never watch anything as good ever again.
 
Rado_N said:
Agreed, that closing montage is probably the best closing of a show I've ever seen. In fact, feck it:





Fair enough, it's all subjective at the end of the day, but it just didn't feel right to me. McNulty was an alcoholic and sure he cut corners, but he was all about justice and often described as 'natural police' etc, him committing crimes just to reach the ends he wanted just didn't feel right.
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Natural police doesn't really mean that he embodies or fully gets and respects the justice system. He's a natural police in that he has good intuitions and knows what rocks to turn over to figure a case out. His drunk-driving, banging prostitutes on the job, his using kids to monitor Stringer at a grocery store, etc. etc. all point to him being a man who doesn't mind flexing what's right to get his own.

I'd say it fits with him. It's far-fetched, and I have far more misgivings about Lester turning, but McNulty was headed for a major feck-up while boozing.

As for the general topic in this thread right now, all the seasons are good enough in their own right. I wouldn't say any one is significantly weaker than the other, especially not when you consider that they all tie together so nicely.

Best show ever. I say that without hesitation.
 
BigDunc9 said:
I honestly remember feeling depressed when I finished watching it knowing I would never watch anything as good ever again.
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This.

Watching it again is an awesome experience though. Second time i watched it i enjoyed even more than the first time, and could really appreciate so many small details i missed the first time.
 
the serial killer plot in season five was definitely a bit shit but they did still close off everything else very well, I thought, and the finale and its montage were perfect.
 
George Owen said:
This.

Watching it again is an awesome experience though. Second time i watched it i enjoyed even more than the first time, and could really appreciate so many small details i missed the first time.
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Yep the 2nd time round is just as good.
 
DWelbz19 said:
Best show of all time? Season 4 has to be the best season of TV, like, ever, but I think season 2 is pretty slept on. Frank Sobotka was the man of the people.
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Frank Sobotka is a hero. Arguably the show's best character, superbly acted by Chris Bauer.

Frank, D'Angelo, Bodie & Bubbs... Immense.

BigDunc9 said:
I honestly remember feeling depressed when I finished watching it knowing I would never watch anything as good ever again.
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Try Deadwood if you've never seen it. It's Wire-esque in its writing.
 
Sally Cinnamon said:
Frank Sobotka is a hero. Arguably the show's best character, superbly acted by Chris Bauer.

Frank, D'Angelo, Bodie & Bubbs... Immense.
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Mad love for Bodie's character. When he shot Wallace, I couldn't have predicted I would be so sad when Bodie himself died. It took great writing, character development, and acting to achieve something like that with a character that is relatively minor right.
 
Just about to embark on my 4th viewing. I haven't seen any other programs series all the way through more than once. Says it all really, absolutely brilliant show. I'll admit the last season disappointed me a bit, but my expectations by that stage were at ridiculous levels.
 
I've watched it through a few times but think I may start it again soon.

I find I actually enjoy Season 5 more each time, probably because I always go into it thinking 'this is where it drops off' and the actual drop off isn't as bad as remembered.

@Sixpence shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit you lucky bastard, enjoy!
 
okLaptop1 said:
Mad love for Bodie's character. When he shot Wallace, I couldn't have predicted I would be so sad when Bodie himself died. It took great writing, character development, and acting to achieve something like that with a character that is relatively minor right.
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Bodie's excellent... and those little scenes between him and Jimmy towards the end were great.
 
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