i love knockers 
Originally posted by golden_blunder:
<strong>i love knockers
Big or small?
Veron is class. I've defended him dogedly since he joined (remember how WE were ALL so excited when we signed this world class player). I continually feel as if he about to come good, But feeling like that for 1 and a half years has worn me down
Unfortunately he just hasnt worked for us. Our midfield has always attacked as a unit and defended as a unit. Veron wants his team mates to work to make time and space for him. Man Utd's midfield is used to working for each other. Once you give Veron space and time, like we've been getting in Europe, Seba can hurt teams.
In the Prem, and more so when we've not been playing as well as we can, everyone has to work hard to turn things around. Veron works hard, but he just doesnt have a defensive bone in his body. He cant tackle. It's embarrassing when he tries to tackle. When he's pressured he concedes possession and his passing game goes to pot.
Great player, and though I hope (and pray) that he helps us achieve European glory, I cant see him ever being great for us in the Prem
Unfortunately he just hasnt worked for us. Our midfield has always attacked as a unit and defended as a unit. Veron wants his team mates to work to make time and space for him. Man Utd's midfield is used to working for each other. Once you give Veron space and time, like we've been getting in Europe, Seba can hurt teams.
In the Prem, and more so when we've not been playing as well as we can, everyone has to work hard to turn things around. Veron works hard, but he just doesnt have a defensive bone in his body. He cant tackle. It's embarrassing when he tries to tackle. When he's pressured he concedes possession and his passing game goes to pot.
Great player, and though I hope (and pray) that he helps us achieve European glory, I cant see him ever being great for us in the Prem
Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>
Big or small?</strong><hr></blockquote>
im not fussy
After 57 votes and less than a day, the poll so far reads:
4-4-2 48 votes
4-4-1-1 2 votes
4-5-1 1 vote (just Murt )
3-5-2 5 votes
3-4-3 1 vote
4-4-2 48 votes
4-4-1-1 2 votes
4-5-1 1 vote (just Murt
)3-5-2 5 votes
3-4-3 1 vote
Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>After 57 votes and less than a day, the poll so far reads:
4-5-1 1 vote (just Murt
</strong><hr></blockquote>
He must be proud of that! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
And what does that prove Neil?
That almost no-one, apart from Murt, thinks that 4-5-1 is better than 4-4-2 in the league.
Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>After 57 votes and less than a day, the poll so far reads:
4-4-2 48 votes
4-4-1-1 2 votes
4-5-1 1 vote (just Murt
3-5-2 5 votes
3-4-3 1 vote</strong><hr></blockquote>
where is the poll? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
great, the redcafe poll will tell fergie he's wrong. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
<img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" />
<img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" />
Originally posted by pjaya:
<strong>
where is the poll?
On the CAF homepage.
Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>That almost no-one, apart from Murt, thinks that 4-5-1 is better than 4-4-2 in the league.</strong><hr></blockquote>
it deepends Neil.. I think Murt mentioned it somewhere. But saying 4-4-2 will bring success is definately a <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[No No]" /> ( you should know that!
and you cannot play 4-4-2 against any team in the world.. have to adapt and change in accodance to the opposing team!
Thanks Weaste and Neil!
I've choosen 4-4-1-1 which I find more adaptable to 4-5-1 and 4-4-2.
Originally posted by pjaya:
<strong>
it deepends Neil.. I think Murt mentioned it somewhere. But saying 4-4-2 will bring success is definately a <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[No No]" /> ( you should know that!
and you cannot play 4-4-2 against any team in the world.. have to adapt and change in accodance to the opposing team!</strong><hr></blockquote>
4-4-2 is just one part of it, obviously, and it does sometimes have to be crafted according to the opposition, but in the league the champions have almost always consistently played a 4-4-2.
Thats a stupid pole and bound ot give a stupid answer.
for starters does that pole mean that we should use the exact same formation inevery game?
442 had hit a brick wall in Europe, "put 2 ppl on Giggs & Beckham when Utd have possesionand were sorted" was the simple tactic to stifle us.
fao
uranushky
Seeing as your a fan "100% 442" perhaps you can also explain why in the last season and a half weve lost just 2 games with a 451 system and 9 with a 442 system?
im still waiting for ananswer
<img src="graemlins/yawn.gif" border="0" alt="[Yawn]" />
for starters does that pole mean that we should use the exact same formation inevery game?
442 had hit a brick wall in Europe, "put 2 ppl on Giggs & Beckham when Utd have possesionand were sorted" was the simple tactic to stifle us.
fao
uranushky
Seeing as your a fan "100% 442" perhaps you can also explain why in the last season and a half weve lost just 2 games with a 451 system and 9 with a 442 system?
im still waiting for ananswer
<img src="graemlins/yawn.gif" border="0" alt="[Yawn]" />
Maybe the poll should be clarified.
4-5-1 is acceptable away in Europe. It might even work in certain away games in England.
But my biggest gripe is not playing 4-4-2 at Old Trafford.
4-5-1 is acceptable away in Europe. It might even work in certain away games in England.
But my biggest gripe is not playing 4-4-2 at Old Trafford.
Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
<img src="graemlins/yawn.gif" border="0" alt="[Yawn]" /> You're waiting for another answer cos you never listen to the answers. Name the 9 games, and we'll dig up the match threads, teamsheets, substitutions, and see if you're making this up or not.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Check the 8 matches we lost last season and the 3 this season.
Only in 2 (arsenal & Pool @ home) did we start with a 451 formation.
I listen to all the answers, problem is their all the same
"we should play 442 so that we can be 3 up after 20 minutes and kill the game off" seems to be the logiv behind it
Also, instead of telling us how many games we lost with 4-4-2, as opposed to 4-5-1, let's also have the stats for the games we won.
I'm genuinely interested. If it can be proved that we've been more successful with 4-5-1, then fair play.
I'm genuinely interested. If it can be proved that we've been more successful with 4-5-1, then fair play.
1) FA Community Shield Liverpool 2 - 1 Man Utd 12-08-2001
2) English Premier Newcastle 4 - 3 Man Utd 15-09-2001
3) European Cup Deportivo 2 - 1 Man Utd 25-09-2001
4) European Cup Man Utd 2 - 3 Deportivo 17-10-2001
5) English Premier Man Utd 1 - 2 Bolton 20-10-2001
6) English Premier Liverpool 3 - 1 Man Utd 04-11-2001
7) English Premier Arsenal 3 - 1 Man Utd 25-11-2001
8) English Premier Man Utd 0 - 3 Chelsea 01-12-2001
9) English Premier Man Utd 0 - 1 West Ham 08-12-2001
10) English Premier Man Utd 0 - 1 Liverpool 22-01-2002
11) English Premier Man Utd 0 - 1 Middlesbro 23-03-2002
12) English Premier Man Utd 0 - 1 Arsenal 08-05-2002
These are the games in question then. We can take a look at each in turn, starting with the Community Shield game.
2) English Premier Newcastle 4 - 3 Man Utd 15-09-2001
3) European Cup Deportivo 2 - 1 Man Utd 25-09-2001
4) European Cup Man Utd 2 - 3 Deportivo 17-10-2001
5) English Premier Man Utd 1 - 2 Bolton 20-10-2001
6) English Premier Liverpool 3 - 1 Man Utd 04-11-2001
7) English Premier Arsenal 3 - 1 Man Utd 25-11-2001
8) English Premier Man Utd 0 - 3 Chelsea 01-12-2001
9) English Premier Man Utd 0 - 1 West Ham 08-12-2001
10) English Premier Man Utd 0 - 1 Liverpool 22-01-2002
11) English Premier Man Utd 0 - 1 Middlesbro 23-03-2002
12) English Premier Man Utd 0 - 1 Arsenal 08-05-2002
These are the games in question then. We can take a look at each in turn, starting with the Community Shield game.
Barthez ,Irwin ,Silvestre ,Gary Neville ,Stam ,Beckham ,Butt ( Yorke ,66 ) ,Keane ,Giggs ,Scholes ,van Nistelrooy
McAllister 2 (p)
Owen 16
van Nistelrooy 51
This was clearly a 4-5-1, only reverting to 4-4-2 after 66 minutes by which time we were losing 2-1. Subsequent to that, no more goals were conceded or scored.
McAllister 2 (p)
Owen 16
van Nistelrooy 51
This was clearly a 4-5-1, only reverting to 4-4-2 after 66 minutes by which time we were losing 2-1. Subsequent to that, no more goals were conceded or scored.
<a href="http://www.redcafe.info//ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001676&p=" target="_blank">Newcastle 4 - 3 Man Utd</a>
Barthez ,Gary Neville ,Phil Neville ,Blanc ,Brown ,Beckham ,Veron ,Keane (sent off 90) ,Giggs ,Cole ( Scholes ,59 ) ,van Nistelrooy
Robert 5
van Nistelrooy 29
Lee 34
Dabizas 52
1-3 in the 4-4-2, changed to 4-5-1 with Scholes:
Giggs 62
Veron 64
Brown 82 (og)
2-1 in the 4-5-1.
1 loss to 4-4-2.
Barthez ,Gary Neville ,Phil Neville ,Blanc ,Brown ,Beckham ,Veron ,Keane (sent off 90) ,Giggs ,Cole ( Scholes ,59 ) ,van Nistelrooy
Robert 5
van Nistelrooy 29
Lee 34
Dabizas 52
1-3 in the 4-4-2, changed to 4-5-1 with Scholes:
Giggs 62
Veron 64
Brown 82 (og)
2-1 in the 4-5-1.
1 loss to 4-4-2.
Deportivo 2 - 1 Man Utd
Barthez ,Irwin ,Johnsen ,Blanc ,Gary Neville ,Giggs ,Veron ,Keane ,Beckham ( Cole ,89 ) ,Scholes ,van Nistelrooy ( Solskjaer ,89 )
Scholes 40
Pandiani 86
Naybet 89
2 losses to the 4-5-1
Barthez ,Irwin ,Johnsen ,Blanc ,Gary Neville ,Giggs ,Veron ,Keane ,Beckham ( Cole ,89 ) ,Scholes ,van Nistelrooy ( Solskjaer ,89 )
Scholes 40
Pandiani 86
Naybet 89
2 losses to the 4-5-1
Man Utd 2 - 3 Deportivo
van Nistelrooy 7
Sergio Gonzalez 37
Tristan 38
van Nistelrooy 40
Tristan 60
Barthez ,Gary Neville ,Johnsen (Brown ,8 ) ,Blanc ,Irwin (Solskjaer ,85 ) ,Beckham ,Veron ,Keane ,Giggs ,Scholes (Cole ,63 ) ,van Nistelrooy
2-3 using 4-5-1, then no more goals scored or conceded after bringing on Cole, nor when moving to a 3-4-3 when Ole was brought on.
4-5-1 3 losses
van Nistelrooy 7
Sergio Gonzalez 37
Tristan 38
van Nistelrooy 40
Tristan 60
Barthez ,Gary Neville ,Johnsen (Brown ,8 ) ,Blanc ,Irwin (Solskjaer ,85 ) ,Beckham ,Veron ,Keane ,Giggs ,Scholes (Cole ,63 ) ,van Nistelrooy
2-3 using 4-5-1, then no more goals scored or conceded after bringing on Cole, nor when moving to a 3-4-3 when Ole was brought on.
4-5-1 3 losses