Oh. i read https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/health/johnson-johnson-covid-19-vaccine.html and thought it was the same as the DNA vaccine that was being talked about.
The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll
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The J&J vaccine uses DNA to code for the production of spike proteins. That’s why it doesn’t need the extreme cold storage of the mRNA vaccines, because DNA is far less fragile than mRNA.
The AZ vaccine also uses DNA. Both of them use an adenovirus to get the DNA inside your cells.
ok.. I read that article and remembered the posts here.. assumed it was referring to the same thing..
Thanks @Wibble and Pogue.
Those research papers were talking about how mRNA vaccines operate. They don't inject spike proteins or similar virus fragments into the body, instead they effectively trick the body into making some spike proteins (which the immune system then "kills"). In doing so they don't change the person's DNA, but they do temporarily subvert another part of some of the vaccinated person's cells to work as a kind of spike factory.
The J&J vaccine instead injects complete bunches of ready made spikes attached to modified adenoviruses. The DNA involved isn't the DNA of the person who gets vaccinated, it's what gets stuck in the adenovirus as spikes
And I hope that my attempt to describe that hasn't got so simplistic that I've just made a horrible mess of it...
I think you’ve got that slightly wrong. The adenovirus doesn’t inject complete spikes. It injects DNA, which hijacks your own intracellular protein manufacturing apparatus (called ribosomes) to build SARS-COV-2 spikes.
People get a bit freaked out about having foreign DNA inside them but there’s no need. There are dozens of DNA viruses that do this who are in circulation for millions of years. Chickenpox and cold sores would be the most well known. They use this exact same method to reproduce every time you get infected. The difference with the adenovirus vectors in these vaccines is they code for the spike protein only. They don’t have the DNA needed to replicate and create new whole viruses.
Side note. Apparently we evolved some of our most complex metabolic processes thanks to viral DNA that got integrated into animal DNA millions of years ago. 8% of human DNA is thought to have come from viruses!
Thanks for clarifying that. I've got used to thinking about subunit vaccines, and I've got too glib with the distinctions - as I feared!
There is actually a nice (not too techie) summary at:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/how-they-work.html
Which covers the main vaccine types we've seen in the west. J&J are in that vector vaccine category.
- mRNA vaccines contain material from the virus that causes COVID-19 that gives our cells instructions for how to make a harmless protein that is unique to the virus. After our cells make copies of the protein, they destroy the genetic material from the vaccine. Our bodies recognize that the protein should not be there and build T-lymphocytes and B-lymphocytes that will remember how to fight the virus that causes COVID-19 if we are infected in the future.
- Protein subunit vaccines include harmless pieces (proteins) of the virus that cause COVID-19 instead of the entire germ. Once vaccinated, our immune system recognizes that the proteins don’t belong in the body and begins making T-lymphocytes and antibodies. If we are ever infected in the future, memory cells will recognize and fight the virus.
- Vector vaccines contain a weakened version of a live virus—a different virus than the one that causes COVID-19—that has genetic material from the virus that causes COVID-19 inserted in it (this is called a viral vector). Once the viral vector is inside our cells, the genetic material gives cells instructions to make a protein that is unique to the virus that causes COVID-19. Using these instructions, our cells make copies of the protein. This prompts our bodies to build T-lymphocytes and B-lymphocytes that will remember how to fight that virus if we are infected in the future.
Just for completeness, while I'm thinking about this. There is a fourth type of vaccine out there, a couple of the Chinese vaccines in particular use the whole covid virus cells that are weakened/inactivated so as not to reproduce/cause infection.
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@jojojo
If you (or anyone else) wants to go deep on all things covid vaccine I can’t recommend this resource highly enough. It tests your knowledge and understanding as you go and adapts accordingly. So is accessible to almost every level of baseline understanding.
I think you might need to pretend to be a doctor to use it but there’s no checking involved. And it’s free!
If you (or anyone else) wants to go deep on all things covid vaccine I can’t recommend this resource highly enough. It tests your knowledge and understanding as you go and adapts accordingly. So is accessible to almost every level of baseline understanding.
I think you might need to pretend to be a doctor to use it but there’s no checking involved. And it’s free!
That's only slightly less disturbing than the idea that more than half the cells in the human body aren't human.
To be fair Wibs, the official guidance from the Catholic Church is "have the vaccine, and if only one is available to you, have that one."
A friend's mother is afraid of taking the vaccine because she has allergies to 3 things - penicillin, brufin, tinidazole.
She consulted a general physician who has advised that it is okay but she's just not able to get over her irrational fear.
I was able to find this which categorically states that penicillin allergy is not related to the vaccine: https://www.anaphylaxis.org.uk/covid-19-advice/pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-and-allergies/
Is there any other sources I can use for the other two please?..
She consulted a general physician who has advised that it is okay but she's just not able to get over her irrational fear.
I was able to find this which categorically states that penicillin allergy is not related to the vaccine: https://www.anaphylaxis.org.uk/covid-19-advice/pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-and-allergies/
Is there any other sources I can use for the other two please?..
My 85 year old nana went into hospital with covid a couple of weeks ago, she started with covid symptoms the day after her vaccine, and went into hospital about a week after having her jab. She came home on Wednesday 
.
I genuinely think that the vaccine has saved her life
.I genuinely think that the vaccine has saved her life
That’s good news! Hope she makes full recovery.My 85 year old nana went into hospital with covid a couple of weeks ago, she started with covid symptoms the day after her vaccine, and went into hospital about a week after having her jab. She came home on Wednesday
I genuinely think that the vaccine has saved her life
Page sixteen to seventeen here
https://assets.publishing.service.g...961287/Greenbook_chapter_14a_v7_12Feb2021.pdf
Generally if its multiple anaphylaxis-type allergic reactions that we are being cautious about or if its an allergic reaction to previous vaccine. I'm averaging I think maybe a couple of hundred patients per week in terms of vaccinations, many with severe penicillin and sulfa allergies. Never once did I have to, touch wood, open up the anaphylaxis kit.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56309198
People aged 56 to 59 in England are being invited to book their coronavirus vaccine from this week.
Letters for people in the age group, offering them the vaccine, started being delivered to homes on Saturday.
It comes after eight in 10 people aged 65 to 69 have taken up the offer of a jab, NHS England said.
So, if you're in the UK, and you're 56 or over - you can make a booking at:
www.nhs.uk/covid-vaccination
You'll need to give the system your NHS number as part of the process.
People aged 56 to 59 in England are being invited to book their coronavirus vaccine from this week.
Letters for people in the age group, offering them the vaccine, started being delivered to homes on Saturday.
It comes after eight in 10 people aged 65 to 69 have taken up the offer of a jab, NHS England said.
So, if you're in the UK, and you're 56 or over - you can make a booking at:
www.nhs.uk/covid-vaccination
You'll need to give the system your NHS number as part of the process.
What’s with the arbitrary age groups? 65-69 and now 56-59?
That is weird actually. Surely a typo?
Quote about ‘56-59’ is directly from Hancock. Does seem an odd distinction.
I was referring to this article rather than the official Vatican advice which is a lot better than it would have been under previous popes.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cb...son-and-johnson-covid-vaccine-abortion-cells/
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But it isn't a DNA vaccine, although some are in early phase trials I think I heard - that should be interesting when/if they get approved. The crazies will have a field day thinking they will suddenly sprout another arm and be controllable by the government or some such nonsense.
The 60-64 group only got their invites last week. The reason they mention the 65-69 group is because they can give a take up rate for them, it's too early to do that with the 60-64s.
Incidentally, with the addition of the 56+ group, roughly half of the invites that have gone out so far have been based on age group, and half have been based on other risk factors (clinical vulnerability, heath and social care workers etc).
Sorry my question was more simply “Why 56-59 and not 55-59?” It’s gone from intervals of 5 years to an interval of 4 years.
Ah, I misunderstood. The actual age driven invites are going out in chunks - presumably to stop the booking system overloading. So the 60-64 invite group in Manchester was actually a 63-64 group followed a few days later by a 60-62 group.
There are some other regional variations as well. These media announcements should help pick up the people who get missed by the GP mailing lists etc. They're obviously getting more confident about the booking system and the vaccine supply is presumably getting more predictable as well.
Ah that explains it thank you. I guess as you go down through the age groups the volume of people will naturally get larger and larger so the intervals will need to be flexible to reflect that.
It is a DNA vaccine, in that it uses a virus vector to introduce DNA which codes for the spike protein.
I see your point, though. There are vaccines in development which use DNA without a virus vector.
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Thanks for sharing. I’m actually allergic to penicillin myself so that’s something I hadn’t thought off. Good it’s not a thing
Any idea where she caught it?My 85 year old nana went into hospital with covid a couple of weeks ago, she started with covid symptoms the day after her vaccine, and went into hospital about a week after having her jab. She came home on Wednesday
I genuinely think that the vaccine has saved her life
Is it? From what I read it is a non-replicating human adenovirus vector viral vector vaccine which contains DNA that encodes a covid protein, but isn't an actual DNA plasmid vaccine.
My 85 year old nana went into hospital with covid a couple of weeks ago, she started with covid symptoms the day after her vaccine, and went into hospital about a week after having her jab. She came home on Wednesday
I genuinely think that the vaccine has saved her life
One of my patients who had significant breathing issues with COPD was admitted to the hospital a few days after her second dose of the vaccine. The admission was for something non covid , she was tested on admission & was negative . A week or so later she was tested before discharge and her covid test was positive , she most likely got it in the hospital. She stayed in the hospital for a week more and was then discharged. She never actually developed any breathing issues which kind of was great proof for the fact that the vaccine doesn't necessarily prevent infection but does help with the severity
That's great news. What was the cause of the COPD in the first instance?
A vaccine which contains DNA that encodes a covid protein. How is that not a DNA vaccine?! The only difference is the method by which the DNA is introduced into your cells.
There are really only three ways to induce an immune response to a specific antigen. Inject you with the antigen itself. Inject with with mRNA to prompt your own cells to manufacture the antigen. Inject you with DNA to prompt your own cells to manufacture the antigen.
There a bunch of different routes to achieve those goals but they all lead to one of the same three end games.
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Well she was in her 80's and must have been a smoker in her younger days so she's had it for more than a decade now
Yes. My cnut of an uncle (her son) went to visit her after having ‘a cold’ which turned out to be a confirmed covid case. fecking prick. He’s denying it completely though and saying that his symptoms started after he visited her
That’s really good news and a similar story to the one we found with my nana, no real breathing difficulties at all.
Imagine being the one that brought covid home that hospitalised your mum
Imagine visiting someone with symptoms of a cold these days
But using an attenuated virus to piggyback the virus spike into cells is fairly standard practice and is used by the J&J and the Oxford vaccine among others.
DNA vaccines have more in common with mRNA vaccines. As mRNA vaccines do not affect or reprogram DNA inside the cell all but tin foil hat wearers haven't been concerned with them "reprogramming" or "controlling" the recipent. As DNA use plasmids containing genes that code for proteins from the target virus the crazies will think their DNA is being changed. There are potential risks but not what these loons with think there are. And of course that is why trials are done.
The great potential is that our cells respond to DNA vaccines by producing proteins from the virus and displaying then in the cell surface which not only activates a T-cell response to produce antibodies but also stimulates the production of killer T-cells that will kill infected cells. Potentially you could even have a sterilising vaccine.
I think this one might be first cab off the rank, always assuming phase 3 trials go to plan of course. With so many vaccines in production I wonder if some of those still in early phases testing will pull the pin? Or perhaps some of the early vaccines will become obsolete as better vaccines arrive?
Which is exactly how our cells respond to mRNA vaccines (Pfizer/Moderna/Curevac) and viral vector vaccines (AZ/J&J) They all do the same thing. They all use our own cells to manufacture SARS-COV-2 spike proteins. The former use mRNA to start this process, the latter use DNA.
What makes the DNA plasmid vaccines different is how that DNA is packaged up when it enters the body. Once that DNA gets inside our cells the end game is identical to what happens with these other vaccine classes.
Had a call this afternoon from my GP, first vaccine booked in for Friday morning.
I got my jab last week, despite being 29 and reasonably healthy.
Felt fine immediately after getting the vaccine, but I was really ill for the next 2 days. Had a bad fever, was nauseous and had shooting pains down both my arms from my shoulder to the tips of my fingers. They did warn me that people who have already had Covid tend to have a worse reaction to the vaccine, but I didn't expect it to hit me like a truck and I never felt that unwell when I actually had Covid.
Have to get the second jab in a few weeks, not exactly excited to go through it all again - my arm still hurts where they did the injection. But at the same time, its small sacrifice is it helps keep my grandparents alive. Defiantly booking the next day off work though.
Felt fine immediately after getting the vaccine, but I was really ill for the next 2 days. Had a bad fever, was nauseous and had shooting pains down both my arms from my shoulder to the tips of my fingers. They did warn me that people who have already had Covid tend to have a worse reaction to the vaccine, but I didn't expect it to hit me like a truck and I never felt that unwell when I actually had Covid.
Have to get the second jab in a few weeks, not exactly excited to go through it all again - my arm still hurts where they did the injection. But at the same time, its small sacrifice is it helps keep my grandparents alive. Defiantly booking the next day off work though.