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[F-Red]

Yet in ireland we are told that there are supply problems

Definitely frustrating to see, I hear it from relatives who live over there. I can see a situation in the coming months where the UK will assist Ireland in vaccine doses, it's the only practical way I can see the border operating in a timely fashion when restrictions are lifted in the UK.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

My point is that she was making it clear that as a negotiation as bloc was the best approach for supply, yet when it's clear that vaccines aren't being used in countries, she isn't managing the stock around the nations. It's common sense that if your 5 larger key nations are only using 20% of their supply, and others in their bloc are needing supply aren't they distributing internally? I've worked in procurement for years, and moving stock around estates is common sense to address the demand needs in a commodity market with limited supply, pharma should be no different.

That “stock” will be flying off the shelves shortly though so clearly no-one is going to be giving it up when they have no guarantee or trust on future deliveries from AZ.

 

[Port Vale Devil]

That “stock” will be flying off the shelves shortly though so clearly no-one is going to be giving it up when they have no guarantee or trust on future deliveries from AZ.

Not followed the thread too closely but didn’t Macron and half of the EU leaders suggest the AZ vaccine wasn’t suitable for over 65’s and have frightened their population into refusing it?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Not followed the thread too closely but didn’t Macron and half of the EU leaders suggest the AZ vaccine wasn’t suitable for over 65’s and have frightened their population into refusing it?

I don’t think half, but yup, plenty of countries didn’t recommend it for over 65’s due to trial data, awaiting more data from UK.
Now I think all countries have seen enough UK data to declare it effective.
Is it really that different to the guidelines on pregnant women?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

My point is that she was making it clear that as a negotiation as bloc was the best approach for supply, yet when it's clear that vaccines aren't being used in countries, she isn't managing the stock around the nations. It's common sense that if your 5 larger key nations are only using 20% of their supply, and others in their bloc are needing supply aren't they distributing internally? I've worked in procurement for years, and moving stock around estates is common sense to address the demand needs in a commodity market with limited supply, pharma should be no different.

I don’t know what sort of stock you’ve worked with in the past but the last thing you want to with cold chain medicines is ship them from A to B, unpack them, store them, then pack them up again and ship them from B to C. An even more absurd proposition when they’ll be needed at B in another couple of weeks anyway!

Anyway, these aren’t huge shortfalls. Just enough to piss people off. A few thousand here, a few thousand there. The main frustration seems to be the lack of sufficient notice rather than the absolute numbers involved. I’m sure it will get sorted soon anyway. I’m just speculating about why Italy might have taken what seems like extreme measures over a relatively small shipment. It might have been the straw that broke the camel’s back.

 

[Wibble]

How is it irrelevant? quaratine is currently saving all lives in Aus from corona.
That isn’t an option for many countries that AZ is currently letting down with it’s supply, often at incredibly short notice.
How can they at short notice keep telling countries they are getting 70% less than agreed, but then ship from Europe to Aus? It’s pretty ridiculous.
As I say, were it being shipped to say, Mexico, it wouldn’t be an issue.

I guess it is because contracts and delivery dates were negotiated and AZ are trying to keep everyone happy without enough stock to do so. If Italy block Australia getting these 250,000 doses that they have flagged they will it probably means Australia will refuse to share their supplies when they start pumping out 1 million doses per week in Melbourne from next month. And things just get worse. These things are almost inevitable I guess as domestic considerations will always trump a more global view when the people deciding are elected.

 

[Port Vale Devil]

I don’t think half, but yup, plenty of countries didn’t recommend it for over 65’s due to trial data, awaiting more data from UK.
Now I think all countries have seen enough UK data to declare it effective.
Is it really that different to the guidelines on pregnant women?

Not going to get too deep into it but when Macron (I think) said it was Quasi-Ineffective then surely they are making a rod for their own back.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I guess it is because contracts and delivery gates were negotiated. If Italy block Australia getting these 250,000 doses it probably means Australia will refuse to share their supplies when they start pumping out 1 million doses per week in Melbourne from next month. And things just get worse. These things are almost inevitable I guess.

Ahhh the human race.

As I said earlier, reminds me a lot of the 2015 refugee crisis. Most countries are selfish shits, so it’ll always be about what’s best for inside of these borders rather than what’s best for humanity or the planet.

So yeah, as you say, inevitable sadly.

 

[F-Red]

I don’t know what sort of stock you’ve worked with in the past but the last thing you want to with cold chain medicines is ship them from A to B, unpack them, store them, then pack them up again and ship them from B to C. An even more absurd proposition when they’ll be needed at B in another couple of weeks anyway!

AZ distribution is easier than Pfizer for that proposition, but the idea isn't impossible. The more absurd proposition is the uptake rates, there should be no reason for stock piling or delays in getting doses in arms in a pandemic, borderline negligence.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Not going to get too deep into it but when Macron (I think) said it was Quasi-Ineffective then surely they are making a rod for their own back.

That’s one country, not half of Europe and yeah, he misspoke and I don’t think it helped the French trust in it.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

AZ distribution is easier than Pfizer for that proposition, but the idea isn't impossible. The more absurd proposition is the uptake rates, there should be no reason for stock piling or delays in getting doses in arms in a pandemic, borderline negligence.

Well the most obvious reason is vaccine hesitancy. Which we know is happening in some Uk regions and was always going to a bigger issue in some countries than others. Holding onto the vaccines intended for people that are slow/reluctant to present for their injections in their local vaccination centres is hardly “borderline negligence”. They are obviously hoping they can be convinced to change their minds at some point, so you can’t just give their vaccines away.

 

[Sir Matt]

Drove 1.5 hours this morning to get my first dose of the Moderna vaccine. After the shot, my arm didn't hurt at all for about two hours before getting a little sore. Go back in a month.

 

[Wibble]

Drove 1.5 hours this morning to get my first dose of the Moderna vaccine. After the shot, my arm didn't hurt at all for about two hours before getting a little sore. Go back in a month.

How come such a long drive?

 

[Traub]

The thing we call the ‘flu’ is not actually a single disease called by a single virus. In fact, the flu shot actually contains 3 different shots for the most popular strain of three flu viruses: H1N1, H3N2 and influenza type B (there are many other flu viruses). Obviously, it’s efficiency is much lower, same as the efficiency of a coronavirus shot would be much lower if we also include the other coronaviruses (like SARS, MERS or the four coronaviruses that cause common cold).

Thanks. Why would including the other corona viruses reduce the efficiency? People often take multiple vaccines at the same time, unless I’m mistaken.

 

[Sir Matt]

How come such a long drive?

I went to get it in my hometown. The university health system where I live has a waitlist that is huge (60,000+ people last I heard). The pharmacy in my hometown had spots open with no one to fill them. The pharmacy there was urging people to reach out to others to get the shot regardless of where they live. I just didn't feel like waiting any longer if I could get it.

 

[Wibble]

I went to get it in my hometown. The university health system where I live has a waitlist that is huge (60,000+ people last I heard). The pharmacy in my hometown had spots open with no one to fill them. The pharmacy there was urging people to reach out to others to get the shot regardless of where they live. I just didn't feel like waiting any longer if I could get it.

Makes sense. Good choice.

 

[berbatrick]

Drove 1.5 hours this morning to get my first dose of the Moderna vaccine. After the shot, my arm didn't hurt at all for about two hours before getting a little sore. Go back in a month.

Colleague in lab got it from the Durham county signups, Duke is way behind. I'm unsure if either of us are actually eligible, the language is vague imo, but she got it no questions asked.

 

[Sir Matt]

Colleague in lab got it from the Durham county signups, Duke is way behind. I'm unsure if either of us are actually eligible, the language is vague imo, but she got it no questions asked.

Given I've been working with the surveillance testing, I expect I'd be in the next group to get it, but who knows. I didn't feel like waiting longer for it. I know at one point Duke was getting a very limited amount of vaccine when they have capacity for about 25k a week. I can PM you the link if you want it. There may be closer counties to get it from than that, but I knew about it since my brother works for the pharmacy in a different location.

I'm guessing part of Duke's backlog is that so many patients live outside of Durham.

 

[surf]

Both of us in my house had the first shot of Moderna last week. The second shot was scheduled at the first appointment and is 28 days afterwards, as recommended. Only Moderna is being offered since it ships in smaller quantities than Pfizer and this is a rural environment (Vermont) with a dispersed population. The clinic makes you wait there for 15 minutes after the shot in case of a bad reaction (30 minutes if have have a history of problems with vaccines). So far the vaccine has proved quite safe. It's a miracle of modern medicine how quickly this has been developed and distributed, despite Trump's incompetent leadership.

 

[GloryHunter07]

I’m not sure what you mean by this? The negotiations and supply should have worked out essentially the same with all of the vaccine manufacturers. But it’s AZ that is repeatedly being singled out as a headache to deal with. So this is much more likely an issue with the company than with the EU bloc.

To be clear, I work in pharma. So I understand how it can sometimes be difficult to meet supply commitments. With the best of intentions. But I also understand what a massive pain in the arse unpredictable stock shortages are for customers.

Its fair to say the EU are difficult customers. Both Macron and Merkel have been shit talking the product recently and using it as a political football to cover their own arses.

 

[hmchan]

Both of us in my house had the first shot of Moderna last week. The second shot was scheduled at the first appointment and is 28 days afterwards, as recommended. Only Moderna is being offered since it ships in smaller quantities than Pfizer and this is a rural environment (Vermont) with a dispersed population. The clinic makes you wait there for 15 minutes after the shot in case of a bad reaction (30 minutes if have have a history of problems with vaccines). So far the vaccine has proved quite safe. It's a miracle of modern medicine how quickly this has been developed and distributed, despite Trump's incompetent leadership.

The biomedical society deserves plenty of credits in this pandemic. The speed and efficacy that testing kits and vaccines are developed have been incredible. Variant strains have been detected promptly using NGS. It's a shame that politics create so many unnecessary damages and make so many innocent people suffer.

 

[RoyH1]

Its fair to say the EU are difficult customers. Both Macron and Merkel have been shit talking the product recently and using it as a political football to cover their own arses.

And Ursula van der Leyen has been no better. The EU Commission is very, very good at doing trade deals and deliberate, thought out strategic long term work where the need to get 25+ countries to agree on something. Crisis management and moving quick is not their forté.
I also think that their commissioners this time around don't seem like top shelf material. Maybe Margrethe Vestager.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Its fair to say the EU are difficult customers. Both Macron and Merkel have been shit talking the product recently and using it as a political football to cover their own arses.

It is fair (kind of). Macron’s comments were definitely unhelpful because they were factually incorrect. Not to mention self-defeating, considering France as a country is vaccine hesitant to begin with. I’m not aware of Merkel coming out with anything unfair or incorrect, though. Have you got a link?

Besides, nothing Macron or Merkel has said or done has anything to do with the point I’m making in that post of mine you quoted.

 

[GloryHunter07]

It is fair (kind of). Macron’s comments were definitely unhelpful because they were factually incorrect. Not to mention self-defeating, considering France as a country is vaccine hesitant to begin with. I’m not aware of Merkel coming out with anything unfair or incorrect, though. Have you got a link?

Besides, nothing Macron or Merkel has said or done has anything to do with the point I’m making in that post of mine you quoted.

Your post mentioned how difficult AZ has been, thats why i mentioned how difficult the EU has been.

Macron’s comment is stupid on a Trumpian scale. Imagine if the Donald had said that, or refused a certain vaccine.

Merkel said she wouldnt be getting the AZ vaccine because she was over 65. Cold logical response at the time but incredibly naive given how illogical vaccine hesitancy is.

Edit: The amount of negative publicity around the AZ vaccine generated in no small part thanks to these idiot politicians has a real world impact. My own father in law (who isnt from the UK) was genuinely reluctant to take the AZ vaccine if he was offered it, he wanted one of the others. We managed to talk him round thankfully.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

Quick question:

I can't seem to find the answer to this, which seems like a simple/common question:

If I'm not in the country when the vaccination for my age group comes around, can I take it at a later date? Or will I have missed my shot (no pun intended)?

 

[F-Red]

Quick question:

I can't seem to find the answer to this, which seems like a simple/common question:

If I'm not in the country when the vaccination for my age group comes around, can I take it at a later date? Or will I have missed my shot (no pun intended)?

Yeah you can take it at a later date, just like rescheduling an appointment.

 

[jojojo]

Quick question:

I can't seem to find the answer to this, which seems like a simple/common question:

If I'm not in the country when the vaccination for my age group comes around, can I take it at a later date? Or will I have missed my shot (no pun intended)?

As far as I can tell, if you're in a "by age" category, you can just ask for it (on the website link using your DoB and NHS number) and provided you're older than the current age risk group it accepts you. If you get a link for some other reason (risk factors or job) you might have to ask your GP or employer to update your link. I don't think you'll have a problem, they're not trying to stop you getting a jab.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

Yeah you can take it at a later date, just like rescheduling an appointment.

As far as I can tell, if you're in a "by age" category, you can just ask for it (on the website link using your DoB and NHS number) and provided you're older than the current age risk group it accepts you. If you get a link for some other reason (risk factors or job) you might have to ask your GP or employer to update your link. I don't think you'll have a problem, they're not trying to stop you getting a jab.

Thanks

 

[golden_blunder]

Is there any data yet on whether vaccinated people can still spread it?

 

[GlasgowRedz]

Is there any data yet on whether vaccinated people can still spread it?

I think there was some initial reports that the Oxford vaccine was reducing transmission by around 67%, but haven't heard anything further about that.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Is there any data yet on whether vaccinated people can still spread it?

There will never be any data to prove that nobody who has been vaccinated can spread the virus. Seeing as they can’t stop everyone from catching the virus.

There is some data already to show that they can partially reduce transmission. From here on in the best we can hope for is a better idea about exactly how big that partial reduction will be.

 

[golden_blunder]

Thanks guys. I only ask because my mother-in-law in England said today that they are being told that they cannot spread it anymore once jabbed and we were saying that we don’t think that’s right

 

[Red Diva]

Had my first jab, just over 3 weeks ago, so feeling a bit safer as I have a couple of underlying health issues. My daughter who is her father’s support bubble (CEV) plus supports a vulnerable adult was refused entry when she went for hers despite having a Carer confirmation letter.

 

[calodo2003]

So we just had a major city mayor refuse an allotment of J & J vaccines due to their lack of quality vs. the other vaccines. The Catholic Church has authorities within telling its flock to not take the J & J vaccines due to it being derived from tissues from aborted fetuses. What absurdity is next for this particular vaccine?

 

[Wibble]

So we just had a major city mayor refuse an allotment of J & J vaccines due to their lack of quality vs. the other vaccines. The Catholic Church has authorities within telling its flock to not take the J & J vaccines due to it being derived from tissues from aborted fetuses. What absurdity is next for this particular vaccine?

Huh? Why would he think that the J&J vaccine is poorer quality?

The Catholic Church are just doing what you would expect. I wonder if they tell people not to have the MMR (R - Rubella), Hep A, Chickenpox or rabies vaccines as they are produced using cloned fetal cells.

It is often ignored that the vaccines themselves do not contain any fetal material according to what I read.

 

[calodo2003]

Huh? Why would he think that the J&J vaccine is poorer quality?

The Catholic Church are just doing what you would expect.

Detroit mayor stated that the J/J vaccine was of ‘inferior quality.’ This is apparently a thing here.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/05/politics/detroit-mayor-johnson--johnson-vaccine-fact-check/index.html

Just because the church offered up its pathetic predictability doesn’t lessen its absurdity.

 

[Scarlett Dracarys]

So we just had a major city mayor refuse an allotment of J & J vaccines due to their lack of quality vs. the other vaccines. The Catholic Church has authorities within telling its flock to not take the J & J vaccines due to it being derived from tissues from aborted fetuses. What absurdity is next for this particular vaccine?

This whole thing has become a bad circus and that includes the scary clowns. Just make the damn vaccine easily available already. I'm wondering what will be the rules moving forward. Will the people who chose not to get vaccinated not be allowed in certain places ? Will it be required for anyone flying ? That's going to be the next debate once the majority of the population is vaccinated. It's never going to be over.

 

[prateik]

From Moderna's own white paper:

"The key challenge associated with DNA vaccines is that they must penetrate the cell nucleus (crossing two membranes; the cytoplasm and the nucleus). The DNA must then be transcribed in the nucleus into mRNA before moving to the cytoplasm to stimulate antigen production. This core complex pathway often requires both larger doses and special, often painful delivery devices using electric shocks or gold microspheres into person’s skin to deliver the DNA vaccine. Once inside the nucleus, DNA vaccines have a risk of permanently changing a person’s DNA."


Something potentially impacting the entire human race, possibly irreversibly, needs to fulfill the highest safety standards ever applied to a vaccine.

It's not nonsense. A DNA vaccine would be fraught with problems.

But an mRNA vaccine is not a DNA vaccine.

Is there a reason you didn't link to it? Here it is (it's from 2017) - https://www.modernatx.com/sites/default/files/RNA_Vaccines_White_Paper_Moderna_050317_v8_4.pdf

The section directly following the part you've chosen to excerpt concerns mRNA vaccines:

"These vaccines combine the advantages of DNA vaccines (natural antigen expression and production that is faster and standardized) while addressing many of the disadvantages. Unlike DNA vaccines, mRNA vaccines do not need to enter the nucleus, nor do they risk being integrated into our DNA, and they are directly translated into protein antigens. As a result, mRNA vaccines require only 1/1000 the dose of DNA vaccines and do not need special delivery devices."

Absolutely not intended to call any poster out.. just remembered the DNA/mRNA talk here from a few months ago.. searched and saw these.. The feeling I got after reading the posts back in Nov was that DNA would be risky and mRNA is safer..


Remembered it after reading the new J&J vaccine is a DNA vaccine and it does inject DNA into the nucleus of the cell..

It's been approved , so it's safe and I'll be totally fine with it.. just wondering if the fear over DNA vaccines were overblown or if J&J did something to address the potential issues?

 

[Wibble]

Absolutely not intended to call any poster out.. just remembered the DNA/mRNA talk here from a few months ago.. searched and saw these.. The feeling I got after reading the posts back in Nov was that DNA would be risky and mRNA is safer..

Remembered it after reading the new J&J vaccine is a DNA vaccine and it does inject DNA into the nucleus of the cell..

It's been approved , so it's safe and I'll be totally fine with it.. just wondering if the fear over DNA vaccines were overblown or if J&J did something to address the potential issues?

The J&J vaccine is an attenuated human adenovirus vectored vaccine. Not an mRNA much less a DNA vaccine.

 

[11101]

So we just had a major city mayor refuse an allotment of J & J vaccines due to their lack of quality vs. the other vaccines. The Catholic Church has authorities within telling its flock to not take the J & J vaccines due to it being derived from tissues from aborted fetuses. What absurdity is next for this particular vaccine?

They better not try any of that here. Much as Catholocism comes from here and is deeply ingrained in society, they seem pretty content to take their tax cheques and stay out of current affairs.