The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll

[lynchie]

Some good news from Oxford/AZ - good protection (~76%) from three weeks after first jab. Also, PCR tests of people who had 2 jabs suggest 50% reduction in transmission.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3777268

 

[Suv666]

Man there are some really smart people on Caf

 

[Penna]

I said I'd update after I'd talked to a neurologist, in view of my autoimmune conditions and history of a previous serious reaction to a vaccination. His view (and he was elderly, so he's been around a long time) was that if I were offered the vaccine today, I should have it.

His view was that it would be more dangerous for me to catch Covid than to have the vaccine. He also said that it's being given to people with MS with no problems. Anyway, he's having his own second jab at the weekend and he's going to talk to the hospital doctors for me. I'm going back next Monday to see what they said.

Hope this helps anyone else who has similar issues and concerns. The neurologist did say that as time goes by, we'll all know more of course and because of the delays in vaccine supplies here in Italy, I won't be offered a vaccine until May in all likelihood. So there's time for more data to appear.

 

[utdalltheway]

I said I'd update after I'd talked to a neurologist, in view of my autoimmune conditions and history of a previous serious reaction to a vaccination. His view (and he was elderly, so he's been around a long time) was that if I were offered the vaccine today, I should have it.

His view was that it would be more dangerous for me to catch Covid than to have the vaccine. He also said that it's being given to people with MS with no problems. Anyway, he's having his own second jab at the weekend and he's going to talk to the hospital doctors for me. I'm going back next Monday to see what they said.

Hope this helps anyone else who has similar issues and concerns. The neurologist did say that as time goes by, we'll all know more of course and because of the delays in vaccine supplies here in Italy, I won't be offered a vaccine until May in all likelihood. So there's time for more data to appear.

Good luck Penna.
And yes, with more time passing (variants aside) the more uncommon side effects and risks of the vaccines should be known.

 

[Pexbo]

I said I'd update after I'd talked to a neurologist, in view of my autoimmune conditions and history of a previous serious reaction to a vaccination. His view (and he was elderly, so he's been around a long time) was that if I were offered the vaccine today, I should have it.

His view was that it would be more dangerous for me to catch Covid than to have the vaccine. He also said that it's being given to people with MS with no problems. Anyway, he's having his own second jab at the weekend and he's going to talk to the hospital doctors for me. I'm going back next Monday to see what they said.

Hope this helps anyone else who has similar issues and concerns. The neurologist did say that as time goes by, we'll all know more of course and because of the delays in vaccine supplies here in Italy, I won't be offered a vaccine until May in all likelihood. So there's time for more data to appear.

All the best Penna, hope everything works out for you x

 

[11101]

I said I'd update after I'd talked to a neurologist, in view of my autoimmune conditions and history of a previous serious reaction to a vaccination. His view (and he was elderly, so he's been around a long time) was that if I were offered the vaccine today, I should have it.

His view was that it would be more dangerous for me to catch Covid than to have the vaccine. He also said that it's being given to people with MS with no problems. Anyway, he's having his own second jab at the weekend and he's going to talk to the hospital doctors for me. I'm going back next Monday to see what they said.

Hope this helps anyone else who has similar issues and concerns. The neurologist did say that as time goes by, we'll all know more of course and because of the delays in vaccine supplies here in Italy, I won't be offered a vaccine until May in all likelihood. So there's time for more data to appear.

I wouldn't know who to believe at the moment. Lombardy today said they should be able to do the whole region by June, and we have brought the start date for over 80s forward by a month. You might find that date comes forward.

 

[Penna]

Thanks folks - @11101, I can imagine things are rather more efficient in Lombardy than in sleepy Marche, but you never know!

 

[lynchie]

I said I'd update after I'd talked to a neurologist, in view of my autoimmune conditions and history of a previous serious reaction to a vaccination. His view (and he was elderly, so he's been around a long time) was that if I were offered the vaccine today, I should have it.

His view was that it would be more dangerous for me to catch Covid than to have the vaccine. He also said that it's being given to people with MS with no problems. Anyway, he's having his own second jab at the weekend and he's going to talk to the hospital doctors for me. I'm going back next Monday to see what they said.

Hope this helps anyone else who has similar issues and concerns. The neurologist did say that as time goes by, we'll all know more of course and because of the delays in vaccine supplies here in Italy, I won't be offered a vaccine until May in all likelihood. So there's time for more data to appear.

That sounds hopeful. All the best with it.

 

[jojojo]

Some good news from Oxford/AZ - good protection (~76%) from three weeks after first jab. Also, PCR tests of people who had 2 jabs suggest 50% reduction in transmission.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3777268

That's another good news story and we need some of those. I suspect it's going to irritate a many people as it pleases, given that we're getting another efficacy result that appears to make a different dosing regime (in this case a single dose!) work better than the intended two dose pattern. It's certainly going to meet a lot of scepticism and cynical responses.

There is a self-consistent theory on why halfdose/full dose and now full dose/delay/full dose or the new joker in the pack AZ followed by Sputnik might work better than a 3-4 week interval - basically around the idea that the body can get keener on developing antibodies to the adenovirus than the spike.

I've not read the full thing properly yet, and I know the number of people involved is low (and the demographics are likely to be unrepresentative) so I'm currently reading it as wonderful if it gets borne out in the field rather than proven. Promising stuff though and good news for the UK vaccination program (though I'm sure it's exactly the kind of data that the MHRA were looking at when they authorised the 12 week interval)

 

[711]

I said I'd update after I'd talked to a neurologist, in view of my autoimmune conditions and history of a previous serious reaction to a vaccination. His view (and he was elderly, so he's been around a long time) was that if I were offered the vaccine today, I should have it.

His view was that it would be more dangerous for me to catch Covid than to have the vaccine. He also said that it's being given to people with MS with no problems. Anyway, he's having his own second jab at the weekend and he's going to talk to the hospital doctors for me. I'm going back next Monday to see what they said.

Hope this helps anyone else who has similar issues and concerns. The neurologist did say that as time goes by, we'll all know more of course and because of the delays in vaccine supplies here in Italy, I won't be offered a vaccine until May in all likelihood. So there's time for more data to appear.

Good stuff. By the time May comes round there will have been millions of vaccinations with whatever version you're offered, if there have been no problems similar to the ones you had all those years ago it will be looking good. You will have to keep safe meanwhile though, even if restrictions are reduced for everyone else.

 

[mitChley]

 

[Jacko21]

Also, 100% effective at preventing hospitalisation after 22 days.

 

[ha_rooney]

That thread is very promising, especially the analysis that the vaccine reduces transmission.

 

[redshaw]

France restricts AstraZeneca vaccine to under-65s
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55901957Tat's

That's Germany, Italy and now France.

 

[Penna]

Good stuff. By the time May comes round there will have been millions of vaccinations with whatever version you're offered, if there have been no problems similar to the ones you had all those years ago it will be looking good. You will have to keep safe meanwhile though, even if restrictions are reduced for everyone else.

I'm thinking the same, fingers crossed.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Phew!

 

[Dumbstar]

I said I'd update after I'd talked to a neurologist, in view of my autoimmune conditions and history of a previous serious reaction to a vaccination. His view (and he was elderly, so he's been around a long time) was that if I were offered the vaccine today, I should have it.

His view was that it would be more dangerous for me to catch Covid than to have the vaccine. He also said that it's being given to people with MS with no problems. Anyway, he's having his own second jab at the weekend and he's going to talk to the hospital doctors for me. I'm going back next Monday to see what they said.

Hope this helps anyone else who has similar issues and concerns. The neurologist did say that as time goes by, we'll all know more of course and because of the delays in vaccine supplies here in Italy, I won't be offered a vaccine until May in all likelihood. So there's time for more data to appear.

Yes it does help so thanks for sharing. And best of luck with the jab.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

France restricts AstraZeneca vaccine to under-65s
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55901957Tat's

That's Germany, Italy and now France.

I don't really get it? It's not like we're in a situation where we can be overly fussy. Is this more about managing demand for a vaccine where supplies are short for the time being?

 

[Mickeza]

France restricts AstraZeneca vaccine to under-65s
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55901957Tat's

That's Germany, Italy and now France.

Wonder what they are going to use to rollout to 80 plus, the shielding and care homes. Logistically Pfizer is a nightmare which is why we’ve let the GPs with Oxford handle them.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Wonder what they are going to use to rollout to 80 plus, the shielding and care homes. Logistically Pfizer is a nightmare which is why we’ve let the GPs with Oxford handle them.

For elderly in the community they can get them to travel to community vaccination hubs.

I’m not sure the specifics of how it works in care homes but in Ireland we’ve already vaccinated all our care home residents with Pfizer or Moderna.

 

[Mickeza]

For elderly in the community they can get them to travel to community vaccination hubs.

I’m not sure the specifics of how it works in care homes but in Ireland we’ve already vaccinated all our care home residents with Pfizer or Moderna.

Ah Moderna is easier logistically I believe not that we have any yet! On Pfizer the advice changed last minute because initially our rollout plan was care homes first but one week before Pfizer arrived it was stated you couldn’t move the vaccine after delivery. I think a few weeks later that changed back to say you could and they did a pilot in North Wales but we’d already started on staff and with Oxford about to arrive decided to leave that to GPs. Hopefully it works on the elderly...

 

[Pexbo]

France restricts AstraZeneca vaccine to under-65s
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55901957Tat's

That's Germany, Italy and now France.

Is there a chance they’re all using it as an excuse to get a vaccine out into lower priority demographics? Pfizer/Moderna to the over 65s and in parallel they get to roll out a vaccine to more mobile age groups?

 

[P-Ro]

It seems to have gone noticeably quiet on the questions surrounding the delay of the second dose of the Pfizer vaccine to 12 weeks and whether this has an effect on the efficacy after the second dose.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Ah Moderna is easier logistically I believe not that we have any yet! On Pfizer the advice changed last minute because initially our rollout plan was care homes first but one week before Pfizer arrived it was stated you couldn’t move the vaccine after delivery. I think a few weeks later that changed back to say you could and they did a pilot in North Wales but we’d already started on staff and with Oxford about to arrive decided to leave that to GPs. Hopefully it works on the elderly...

That’s interesting. I’m almost certain that care home residents got Pfizer as well as Moderna. Probably made life easier that we started a bit later so the advice re moving after delivery was already clear by then.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It seems to have gone noticeably quiet on the questions surrounding the delay of the second dose of the Pfizer vaccine to 12 weeks and whether this has an effect on the efficacy after the second dose.

Not sure what news you’re expecting considering the first person on the planet to be vaccinated got their initial jab less than 8 weeks ago!

 

[africanspur]

It seems to have gone noticeably quiet on the questions surrounding the delay of the second dose of the Pfizer vaccine to 12 weeks and whether this has an effect on the efficacy after the second dose.

What news were you expecting? It hasn't even been 12 weeks since the 1st person anywhere received their pfizer vaccine and the news has been filled since then with undignified spats between the EU and pharmaceutical companies, vaccine nationalism, new variants, Northern Ireland, the EMA and AZ, continuing horrible numbers and promising new vaccine candidates.

The arguments have kind of worn out for now and all people can do is wait for whatever data we end up collecting.

 

[Skills]

How does this make sense, if the initial results said the vaccine was only 62% effective after 2 jabs? Yet it's 76% effective after one jab?

Doesn't the second jab make the immune response weaker if given after 3 weeks?

 

[11101]

Wonder what they are going to use to rollout to 80 plus, the shielding and care homes. Logistically Pfizer is a nightmare which is why we’ve let the GPs with Oxford handle them.

Italy has already done most of the care home residents with Pfizer, so it is possible. My region is scheduled to finish first and second doses by 23 February.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

I like this news. I believe most of the other vaccines do not reduce transmission?

Scott Beasley (@SkyScottBeasley) Tweeted: Crucially, Oxford says the vaccine DOES stop transmission:

Oxford: “Analyses of PCR positive swabs in UK population suggests vaccine may have substantial effect on transmission of the virus with 67% reduction in positive swabs among those vaccinated”

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I like this news. I believe most of the other vaccines do not reduce transmission?

Scott Beasley (@SkyScottBeasley) Tweeted: Crucially, Oxford says the vaccine DOES stop transmission:

Oxford: “Analyses of PCR positive swabs in UK population suggests vaccine may have substantial effect on transmission of the virus with 67% reduction in positive swabs among those vaccinated”

Most (all?) of the other studies didn’t check. They only did PCR tests when clinically indicated (i.e. when symptomatic)

 

[redshaw]

Poland and Sweden also not using the vaccine for over 60 and 65s. Looks like Belgium will be next.
https://www.politico.eu/article/fra...trazeneca-vaccine-for-people-younger-than-65/

This is problem with not testing many elderly plus there's a lot coming down the pipe with better data and efficacy.

 

[jojojo]

A bit more data from Novavax in the form of a slide presentation they made to the NY Academy of Science today.



Very small numbers involved in some of the efficacy reports, in particular from the SA trial, where there's 15:29 cases vaccine: placebo across the whole trial or 11:27 if you only consider the HIV- cohort. As far as I can see that does mean that in HIV+ subjects the ratio was 4:2 - not enough cases in that group to be statistically significant in themselves, but enough to mean that the results will need separate analysis, and more study.

Despite the small numbers in some categories they're still worth reporting because all vaccine companies/health providers will need to look at the same thing.

They also note that they've already made a SA targeted version of the vaccine in the lab. That's where their research team are going next.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Poland and Sweden also not using the vaccine for over 60 and 65s. Looks like Belgium will be next.
https://www.politico.eu/article/fra...trazeneca-vaccine-for-people-younger-than-65/

This is problem with not testing many elderly plus there's a lot coming down the pipe with better data and efficacy.

As well as the other vaccines, the AZ one could still end up with decent evidence in the elderly. They’ve a phase 3 study which is recruiting elderly subjects that started after the studies used to get the license. If that generates some decent results then all those recommendations could change.

 

[Wibble]

As well as the other vaccines, the AZ one could still end up with decent evidence in the elderly. They’ve a phase 3 study which is recruiting elderly subjects that started after the studies used to get the license. If that generates some decent results then all those recommendations could change.

The odds must be high that they will.

 

[4bars]

I always had my money on Russia saving the world from the virus.

Specially because they are the only ones with China that are selling the vaccine outside their borders without waiting to vaccinate their whole population and at cheap prices

 

[africanspur]

Specially because they are the only ones with China that are selling the vaccine outside their borders without waiting to vaccinate their whole population and at cheap prices

That isn't really true, as AZ have signed up to allow the serum institute of India to produce huge numbers of doses, both for itself and also for other LMIC around the world, some of which has already started being shipped out.

As for the Sputnik vaccine, great news. Some of the skepticism before was definitely due to a generally very western-centred view of the world but also in fairness due to the fact that both Chinese and Russian vaccines were being administered in their countries without proper phase 3 trials having been conducted.

Now we've seemingly got sone very good data on Sputnik (and more coming I believe) I hope to see it more widely in use.

 

[Kasper]

Wonder what they are going to use to rollout to 80 plus, the shielding and care homes. Logistically Pfizer is a nightmare which is why we’ve let the GPs with Oxford handle them.

Is it really that much of a nightmare? I thought so as well with the freezer storage settings but I hadn`t realized up until last week that it can be stored up to five days in a normal fridge before it expires. So you can store it in a centralized facility with big storage capacity at -70°C and then distribute it through regional centers/doctors with normal fridges. Of course still not an easy task in the Global south but for rich European nations I don`t see a big issue.
I think the plan in countries that as of yet not plan to use AZ for +65 is to use Pfizer/Moderna for +70 age groups and AZ for younger key and health care workers.

 

[Wolverine]

Is it really that much of a nightmare? I thought so as well with the freezer storage settings but I hadn`t realized up until last week that it can be stored up to five days in a normal fridge before it expires. So you can store it in a centralized facility with big storage capacity at -70°C and then distribute it through regional centers/doctors with normal fridges. Of course still not an easy task in the Global south but for rich European nations I don`t see a big issue.
I think the plan in countries that as of yet not plan to use AZ for +65 is to use Pfizer/Moderna for +70 age groups and AZ for younger key and health care workers.

Pfizer is a lot more challenging logistically because it has to be handled with extreme care, can't shake it otherwise manufacturer says you risk reducing efficacy because of apparently the nanoparticle being fragile. So dilution is a challenge.

I think there is a place for it for sure, as we've managed to roll it out in the big centres without much of an issue but the AZ one is much much simpler in all aspects.

 

[jojojo]

Is it really that much of a nightmare? I thought so as well with the freezer storage settings but I hadn`t realized up until last week that it can be stored up to five days in a normal fridge before it expires. So you can store it in a centralized facility with big storage capacity at -70°C and then distribute it through regional centers/doctors with normal fridges. Of course still not an easy task in the Global south but for rich European nations I don`t see a big issue.
I think the plan in countries that as of yet not plan to use AZ for +65 is to use Pfizer/Moderna for +70 age groups and AZ for younger key and health care workers.

I think the issues come as you break down the batches. Locally they were ok with using Pfizer for bigger carehomes, but for the smaller ones (and the elderly/vulnerable housebound) the process was too difficult - too labour intensive and too much wastage.

If you look at:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...fessionals-on-pfizerbiontech-covid-19-vaccine
You can get an idea of what happens as you start to get down to the vial level. One defrosted vial contains 6 doses, but can't be transported again once diluted. So final preparation has to be done on location.

That makes each visit quite a long one and they have to discard any unused doses. Not impossible to manage but expensive on manpower and lost doses. Hence the difficulty with smaller residential units and the housebound. The vaccination centres that the GPs (and now pharmacies) have set up are working more like production lines.

The AZ is much closer to the "put a bunch of them in a briefcase in the morning and start driving around" pattern they'd follow with flu jabs.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think the issues come as you break down the batches. Locally they were ok with using Pfizer for bigger carehomes, but for the smaller ones (and the elderly/vulnerable housebound) the process was too difficult - too labour intensive and too much wastage.

If you look at:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...fessionals-on-pfizerbiontech-covid-19-vaccine
You can get an idea of what happens as you start to get down to the vial level. One defrosted vial contains 6 doses, but can't be transported again once diluted. So final preparation has to be done on location.

That makes each visit quite a long one and they have to discard any unused doses. Not impossible to manage but expensive on manpower and lost doses. Hence the difficulty with smaller residential units and the housebound. The vaccination centres that the GPs (and now pharmacies) have set up are working more like production lines.

The AZ is much closer to the "put a bunch of them in a briefcase in the morning and start driving around" pattern they'd follow with flu jabs.

Multiples of six won’t be a problem for any care home you can think of. Especially when you factor in staff. It’s all about planning. In Ireland care homes have been inviting local GPs to use up any remaining shots from the last vial.

Housebound elderly are a challenge alright. Not sure how you fix that with the mRNA vaccines. Although nobody is truly housebound if you provide the right support.