This isn't completely true but vaccine diplomacy certainly exists.
The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll
- Thread starter Badunk
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Just a mere 600k doses administered in the last 24 hours...
Paywalled for me. What’s the short version of their rationale for choosing to export ahead of vaccinating at-risk groups at home?
That is fecking good going! Kind of amazed we haven't cocked up the vaccine roll-out, or at least, not yet. Fingers crossed the delayed second doses don't come back to bite us in the arse.
It looks like they haven’t started over 60s because they don’t have phase 3 data yet. The estimates are it’ll take 2 years to vaccinate around 500m in China - their aim is 24m by middle of Feb - these are key workers. Over 500m doses currently signed up to be exported from China over the next 2 years.
The reasoning given:
“Beijing’s ‘vaccine diplomacy’ has raised concerns from rivals. But China maintains it’s doing the humanitarian thing by not hoarding vaccine doses like wealthier nations.
“It is the right thing to do,” said Victor Gao, a former Chinese Foreign Ministry official, of Beijing’s strategy. “The motto is leaving no one behind.”
Russia seems quite similar. They’ve only vaccinated 1% so far but have shipped Sputnik V to other parts of the world I believe.
So they’re not yet confident enough about the vaccine’s safety/efficacy to use it in elderly/vulnerable Chinese people but they’re happy to flog it overseas for use in elderly/vulnerable foreigners. How very magnanimous of them.
this.
there's two chances they're doing it for the greater good; none and feck all.
My neighbours got their 1st vaccine the other day, the Pfizer one. They seemed well chuffed to share the news around.
Their daughter was telling me that her mother cried, she was so happy. I didn't realize the mother was 65+. She looks good for that age, says I, trying not to sound at all pervy.
Hopefully it won't be too long before they move into the next phase which will allow the 55s & older to get it. My wife will need to bring a few forms of ID as they're no way they'll believe she's 55+.
Me; they'll be asking why I didn't come in sooner.
Their daughter was telling me that her mother cried, she was so happy. I didn't realize the mother was 65+. She looks good for that age, says I, trying not to sound at all pervy.
Hopefully it won't be too long before they move into the next phase which will allow the 55s & older to get it. My wife will need to bring a few forms of ID as they're no way they'll believe she's 55+.
Me; they'll be asking why I didn't come in sooner.
Is this your thing now? any excuse to bash China because they have somehow managed to handle the pandemic better than anyone else?
Jesus. You’re a cliché, aren’t you? Not everyone has a “thing” and not every comment in this thread is politically motivated. You should give it a go. It would make your contributions a lot less boring/predictable.It was just an observation. Everyone needs a hobby in their latter years.
No. It was a question. A stupid question. But definitely a question. Observations aren’t sentences that end in question marks.
This thread is supposed to be informative and educational but teaching you basic shit like this seems like a waste of everyone’s time. Yet here we are. On ignore you go.
My neighbours got their 1st vaccine the other day, the Pfizer one. They seemed well chuffed to share the news around.
Their daughter was telling me that her mother cried, she was so happy. I didn't realize the mother was 65+. She looks good for that age, says I, trying not to sound at all pervy.
Hopefully it won't be too long before they move into the next phase which will allow the 55s & older to get it. My wife will need to bring a few forms of ID as they're no way they'll believe she's 55+.
Me; they'll be asking why I didn't come in sooner.
That's good news. Are you in the UK? My mum is 68 and I'm still waiting for a call from our useless as feck GP surgery. We're in South London. I'll give them a call tomorrow.
Wait until we find out that 50% of them were placebos and that’s why AZ were so keen to support the UK
The government should get credit for ensuring good steady vaccine supply and quantities but the vaccine programme in the UK is largely down to GPs and primary care networks who managed to scale up a logistically very challenging task very well.
Very sad to hear about Captain Sir Tom Moore now in hospital with covid who couldn't get the vaccine as he was fighting pneumonia
Very sad to hear about Captain Sir Tom Moore now in hospital with covid who couldn't get the vaccine as he was fighting pneumonia
Fecking hell. Poor fella has the odds stacked against him. Wonder how he caught it?
Without being a dick, he went galavanting around the Caribbean on holiday not long ago
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No. Southern California, which is having its own problems issuing vaccines. They’re way behind other states. They’re handling vaccine distribution on a county level. GPs in general are not distributing. They’re vaccinating at “super sites” like Disneyland, Dodgers Stadium, etc cos they have huge car parks.
Thousands per day are getting their shots but with about 24 million people here in SoCal it’ll take a while.
NorCal is doing better with some counties doing double the rate of southern counties. If I was a cynic I’d say the governor (Newsome) favours the northern part as he’s from there.
Thankfully trump is out of the way, so at least he won’t be favouring vaccine distribution to red states.
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Not all the over 80s are done yet. They've started on the over 70s but not the over 65s, in most places at any rate. I asked people who have had it and they were advised by NHS England rather than their doctors. I understand the frustration, I'm over 65 myself, but I'd leave the doctor's phone clear for people that need them at the moment.
God speed Sir Tom!
The nation is behind you to beat this virus!
The nation is behind you to beat this virus!
Galavanting verrrry slowly around the Caribbean.
They're still working through the over 75s in most parts of the country, though they've started on the over 70s in some. Appointment invites are still going out to the over 70s, the elderly housebound and the clinically extremely vulnerable in most areas though - and that'll be the bulk of vaccinations for the next couple of weeks.
It's worth keeping in mind that the vaccine supplies are a bit unpredictable. It's not unusual for people to be offered a vaccine "tomorrow." So, I know you're worried about her, but it's unlikely a phone call will do more than get a, "wait for a text/letter/call." If they have a website/FB page check that, some GPs/local health authorities are posting updates on how far they've got.
Yes, I know I'm talking to myself, but I do have a vested interest in the Novavax story.
Assuming there are no changes of heart/plan or sudden switch to Trial.2 (the Novavax next generation cocktail mix or something similar) apparently the trial will be unblinded once the final UK efficacy data is released and the placebo group will then be offered Novavax. That's expected to happen late February. I hope it's true, I've developed a strange commitment to the product by being part of the trial and I'd be disappointed not to get it
One of the regional trial leads is quoted as saying:
“When we are given the green light we will start to ‘unblind’ the trial and we will see which participants have received the vaccine. Those who received the placebo will now be asked back to receive two doses of the Novavax vaccine 21 days apart. This means that all those who took part on the trial will ultimately have protection against this deadly virus.”
https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co...ors-pride-leading-trial-covid-19-jab-novavax/
Which is in itself is a reminder of how complicated current/future clinical trial will be. I suspect from this point on vaccine v placebo (particularly in the over 50s or high risk groups) will have to stop and be replaced with vaccine v other vaccine versions.
Thanks @utdalltheway , @711 and @jojojo . I got a bit excited and as you can tell have a bit of distrust with my GP (will change GP once t lockdown has eased).
Needs another option on the poll Adding *Already had the vaccine
Apparently he's not in intensive care which is good news.
And your last line holds the enormously important info - as if the most famous old person in the country had had the jab, and still got the hospitalised, people would really worry about how effective it is.
Added!
Yes, I know I'm talking to myself, but I do have a vested interest in the Novavax story.
Assuming there are no changes of heart/plan or sudden switch to Trial.2 - the Novavax next generation cocktail mix or something similar - apparently the trial will be unblinded once the final UK efficacy data is released and the placebo group will then be offered Novavax. I hope it's true, I've developed a strange commitment to the product by being part of the trial and I'd be disappointed not to get it
One of the regional trial leads is quoted as saying:
“When we are given the green light we will start to ‘unblind’ the trial and we will see which participants have received the vaccine. Those who received the placebo will now be asked back to receive two doses of the Novavax vaccine 21 days apart. This means that all those who took part on the trial will ultimately have protection against this deadly virus.”
https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co...ors-pride-leading-trial-covid-19-jab-novavax/
Which is in itself is a reminder of how complicated current/future clinical trial will be. I suspect from this point on vaccine v placebo (particularly in the over 50s or high risk groups) will have to stop and be replaced with vaccine v other vaccine versions.
It’s always an interesting/difficult decision. When, exactly, is the point at which you’re so confident of your drug’s efficacy that it becomes unethical to continue the placebo arm? I’d say the context of developing a potential game changer for a global pandemic makes that an even tougher call than usual.
100 year olds (he is 100, right?) are incredibly unlikely to get ever get admitted to intensive care.
This is true. The respiratory wards where I work are full at the moment and were only collecting patients onto ICU that are younger if we can. I’ve explained this to my mum (she’s 84) when she said she didn’t want the vaccine. I told her if she ends up on the ward they won’t send you to ICU. If you deteriorate on the ward, that’ll be it. Sounds harsh but I had to give her the hard word. Fortunately she had the jab. She’s actually had both of them now, she’s the only person I know at the moment who’s had both! They may make an exception with Tom though I suppose, with him being a sir and a national treasure so to speak. Imagine the backlash if he didn’t at least get an ICU bed?
I don't think any medic would want to be so cruel as to intubate a 100 year old.
We need to educate the public though you're right about intubation.
I remember seeing an interview stating that from a previous hospital admission that he has do not resuscitate order in his care plan so he might already have chosen to be for a ward-based ceiling of therapeutic intervention.
Any breakdown on how many of those were Pfizer/Moderna an how many were AZ?
The pro-China campaign in Hong Kong even questions the local government why not vaccinates the public without phase 3 data like China.
The thing is that China is the major culprit for the pandemic and they are worst in handling it. If they deal with it a bit better, there wouldn't have been a pandemic at all.
@hmchan give it a rest for feck sake
I think it's been mostly Pfizer so far. It's one of the reasons why things like coverage of smaller nursing homes and elderly housebound people had been slow in some areas. The Pfizer logistics just didn't fit that kind of door to door service.
The AZ is arriving at closer to its scheduled volume now, which may be why a bunch of pharmacy staffed vaccine stations have opened this week. AZ will rapidly overtake Pfizer volumes if supplies stay on plan.
Just for the detail oriented...
I did a quick look back at what AZ were scheduling for the UK, and some of what happened. The details are all supposed to be confidential though - for commercial and security reasons (aka not annoying the neighbours). So some of this comes from things like House of Commons select committees, some from leaks to The Times etc. So it's all a bit vague, and in a thing where days matter, these may be a bit wobbly.
AZ planned to produce 30m doses (bulk product) in the UK by the end of September, they actually produced 19m by early January. Only 3.5m of those were finished to the point where they were ready for batch testing by the regulators. That process normally takes about 3 weeks (for biological reasons - they're making sure the mix is sterile) but apparently is now down to 5 days because the regulators are collecting samples (vials) in parallel with AZ rather than afterwards.
Messy business talking about vaccine supply timelines. As AZ and the EU doubtless know - though they can be talked about in press releases in different ways.
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An interesting report from the NYTimes basically arguing that public discussion of the various vaccine trials has been unnecessarily negative. In particular that the lower efficacy numbers (on the AZ and around mutations in particular) are misleading people into thinking they aren't as important/useful as they really are.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/01/briefing/vaccination-myanmar-coup-rochester-police.html
Here’s the key fact: All five vaccines with public results have eliminated Covid-19 deaths. They have also drastically reduced hospitalizations. “They’re all good trial results,” Caitlin Rivers, an epidemiologist at Johns Hopkins University, told me. “It’s great news.”
Which if it proves to be even close to true in real life, will be a huge deal. Around 75,000 people were vaccinated in those trials.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/01/briefing/vaccination-myanmar-coup-rochester-police.html
Here’s the key fact: All five vaccines with public results have eliminated Covid-19 deaths. They have also drastically reduced hospitalizations. “They’re all good trial results,” Caitlin Rivers, an epidemiologist at Johns Hopkins University, told me. “It’s great news.”
Which if it proves to be even close to true in real life, will be a huge deal. Around 75,000 people were vaccinated in those trials.
This is very true. AZ is sometimes talked about as some shambled together bodge of a vaccine, partly because their reporting has been pretty shambolic at times, but also because of that 65%(ish) effectiveness number looks pretty poor compared to Pfizer/Moderna. But no one in the vaccine arm needed hospitalisation, and if that holds when it gets rolled out, that's a huge success, even if a minority do get mild symptoms.
J&J seem to have gone a bit further with that. Their effectiveness number specifically excludes mild cases, and they've been heavily talking up that it reduces severe cases and hospitalisation. And I think that's fair enough. Even allowing for us being unsure about long-term impacts of those mild cases, keeping people out of hospital should be the main goal.
It’s interesting that J&J have a different end-point to everyone else. I’d love to know why. Usually the primary end-point is discussed/agreed with the regulators so it’s a little odd that symptomatic covid has been used as the primary end-point for all bar one vaccine thus far.
Re hospitalisations etc we’ll be waiting a while to have any confidence over those data. The preliminary data so far will have been analysed/submitted based around statistical significance for the primary end-point. Because that’s what they need for a license. We’ll learn more and more about how well vaccines affect the severity of disease (and transmission) in the weeks/months ahead. You’re right, though, the initial trends are very encouraging and it’s arguably more important to know how effective a vaccine is at keeping people out of hospital than its affect on absolute number of cases.