The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll
- Thread starter Badunk
- Start date
Antivaxxers are a small minority globally, but a bigger minority in some countries (US and Russia).
e - the "vaccinated" number from India means the poll is not samples correctly. But I think other polls have got similar results.
We forget just how stupid and how massive bellends many people are.
Didn't most of the initial anti-vax disinformation start from Russian trolls trying to make westerners distrust the government & western science? I thought it was proven that that was a goal of theirs and they targeted certains types of people (conspiracy theorists, 'natural' food types, hippies, etc)? So did it backfire and their own population fell for it more than any other country?
There's been a big anti-vax movement in the west, especially the US, long before "Russian trolls" became a catch-all bogeyman.
Skepticism about the entire virus/pandemic or its lethality was pushed throughout 2020 by American politicians and media whose overriding value is personal freedom. That would logically lead people to reject vaccines - if the virus isn't real/serious, what is the government putting in me? As a
Like with the 2016 results, Russian trolls should be pretty low down any list of causes.
NZ and Oz rollouts in full flow. Impressive results, particularly given that people are preparing for future risks, rather than in full deaths/hospitalisations panic mode.
The "fully vaccinated" comparisons with the UK are complicated by different policies on vaccinating the 12-17s where the UK hasn't yet approved a second dose.
The "fully vaccinated" comparisons with the UK are complicated by different policies on vaccinating the 12-17s where the UK hasn't yet approved a second dose.
It’s a bit more than just future risks though. They’ve been dealing with fairly severe lockdowns and travel restrictions. People in Australia who haven’t been able to leave their own state (never mind country) to visit close family for months and months. That will all help focus the mind when it comes to vaccinations.
Absolutely. Getting vaccinated is the biggest contribution most of us can make to "getting back to normal" and I think that drove a lot of the enthusiasm in the UK as well.
Momentum is a big thing too. I think the longer a campaign takes, the harder it becomes to maintain that team spirit aspect. The UK kicked off in early December but didn't reach the 18+ group until late June. Throw the standard 10/12 week dose interval on that and it's September. It's a long time to keep the enthusiasm up. That's leaving aside the fact that the UK regulators were very cautious on the 12+ groups - whereas NZ already had that data by the time they had the vaccines available.
The "getting back to normal" issue does bother me in the context of what it means for the vaccine hesitant though, particularly for Maoris in NZ and black and other minority groups in the UK.
There's something very very wrong with these people
More worryingly, won't these diseases find a way to spread globally again?
There are plenty real people there I'm sure, but please understand all online comment sections are plagued by bots and paid trolls spreading alt-right disinformation.
2020 American Politicians = Russian Trolls. Same thing.
Get vaccinated.
Can’t see school boards or the feds letting the fascist dwarf have his way re: vaccines.
Surprised more wasn't made here the other day of U.K hitting 50m mark of people having some form of vaccination.
Yes I know it's not perfect uptake but realistically it was never going to be. But would rather focus on all those who have stepped forward to have a jab as 50m in 11 months pretty much is a more than decent effort.
Yes I know it's not perfect uptake but realistically it was never going to be. But would rather focus on all those who have stepped forward to have a jab as 50m in 11 months pretty much is a more than decent effort.
True, although not all state borders have been closed all of the time. The appetite for vaccination and getting "back to normal" is highest in NSW and VIC where outbreaks and lockdowns have been the most severe whereas QLD and WA etc, where they have virtually eradicated covid there is less urgency and also less appetite to open borders. I think they have done an awesome job, actually all of the states have done a very good job indeed despite #scottyfrommarketing going MIA and forgetting to order enough vaccines.
The states that are locked down are now going to have to take a hard decision when to open up. I have sympathy as politicians are effectively going to have to decide to let people start getting sick and die. Unavoidable but not a trivial decision. QLD are going to begin opening up (not sure of the exact details) when they hit 80% single dose for over 16's which won't be too far away and certainly by mid December when they should be at 80% fully vaxxed. WA is talking about leaving borders closed until after Christmas which is easier for them as they are more isolated. They are releasing their roadmap to opening up later this week. Tough on those who will miss another Christmas with interstate family.
International travel into NSW without quarantine for the fully vaxxed started up again this week so we are hoping we can get my son home for Christmas for the first time in 2 years. Fingers and toes crossed.
NSW is close to 90% fully vaxxed and is nearly 94% single dosed (over 16's) and the 12-15's are getting vaccinates at amazing rates with 79.6% already having had at least one shot.
I think we have a shot at getting over 90% of 12+ (plus 70-80% over 5's later) vaccinated which will be a decent effort if a bit short of ideal.
Fingers crossed for you too.
Didn’t know if it deserved its own thread so I thought I’d mention the HpV vaccine in this one. It’s virtually eradicated cervical cancer. Just wow.
And the governor of Florida wants to stop it.
Great video on the psychology behind the anti-vaxxers
Had a question regarding the booster shot..
I am in India. Got 2 doses of Covishield (AZ).. There is no talk of boosters here that I am aware of..
Thinking of going to the US.. Good idea to mix a Pfizer/Moderna booster with the AZ jab? Any study on it?
If not, its fine.. but if its safe and recommended, I might get the booster while I am in the US.
I am in India. Got 2 doses of Covishield (AZ).. There is no talk of boosters here that I am aware of..
Thinking of going to the US.. Good idea to mix a Pfizer/Moderna booster with the AZ jab? Any study on it?
If not, its fine.. but if its safe and recommended, I might get the booster while I am in the US.
Between this kind of shit, and their complete denial of climate change Im convinced it will be the u.s that ends human kind on this planet.
Thanks a lot..
Interesting study in Canada on the waning effectiveness of Pfizer over the months that follow the second dose. They are seeing it wane but aren't seeing it fall as rapidly as the USA did.
Just looking back at this we’re down to over 40s now. Do you think we are going to stop there or do you think we are likely to keep going now?
Over 40s will capture a huge proportion of the hospitalisations. They might add some more groups people to the vulnerable lists or to the high risk jobs list - but I'm not sure they want to go further than that.
The Joker in the pack is the question of international travel. Some countries are looking at adding expiry dates (typically 9 months after dose 2 or booster) to passes. That needs serious discussions between countries and regulators though. Similarly with kids - there's no immediate plan in the UK to vaccinate under 12s, or even to give a second dose to 12-15s - which is at odds with policies in other countries.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1
Background Reports of waning vaccine-induced immunity against COVID-19 have begun to surface. With that, the comparable long-term protection conferred by previous infection with SARS-CoV-2 remains unclear.
Methods We conducted a retrospective observational study comparing three groups: (1)SARS-CoV-2-naïve individuals who received a two-dose regimen of the BioNTech/Pfizer mRNA BNT162b2 vaccine, (2)previously infected individuals who have not been vaccinated, and (3)previously infected and single dose vaccinated individuals. Three multivariate logistic regression models were applied. In all models we evaluated four outcomes: SARS-CoV-2 infection, symptomatic disease, COVID-19-related hospitalization and death. The follow-up period of June 1 to August 14, 2021, when the Delta variant was dominant in Israel.
Results SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees had a 13.06-fold (95% CI, 8.08 to 21.11) increased risk for breakthrough infection with the Delta variant compared to those previously infected, when the first event (infection or vaccination) occurred during January and February of 2021. The increased risk was significant (P<0.001) for symptomatic disease as well. When allowing the infection to occur at any time before vaccination (from March 2020 to February 2021), evidence of waning natural immunity was demonstrated, though SARS-CoV-2 naïve vaccinees had a 5.96-fold (95% CI, 4.85 to 7.33) increased risk for breakthrough infection and a 7.13-fold (95% CI, 5.51 to 9.21) increased risk for symptomatic disease. SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees were also at a greater risk for COVID-19-related-hospitalizations compared to those that were previously infected.
Conclusions This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7044e1.htm?s_cid=mm7044e1_w
Summary
What is already known about this topic?
Previous infection with SARS-CoV-2 or COVID-19 vaccination can provide immunity and protection against subsequent SARS-CoV-2 infection and illness.
What is added by this report?
Among COVID-19–like illness hospitalizations among adults aged ≥18 years whose previous infection or vaccination occurred 90–179 days earlier, the adjusted odds of laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 among unvaccinated adults with previous SARS-CoV-2 infection were 5.49-fold higher than the odds among fully vaccinated recipients of an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine who had no previous documented infection (95% confidence interval = 2.75–10.99).
What are the implications for public health practice?
All eligible persons should be vaccinated against COVID-19 as soon as possible, including unvaccinated persons previously infected with SARS-CoV-2.
Natural Immunity vs Artificial Immunity - which is better? Personally I believe natural immunity is better and would only consider artificial immunity when absolutely necessary. For the vast majority, artificial immunity is not absolutely necessary for the flu and neither is it absolutely necessary for corona virus. I understand if an elderly person or sick person chooses to get a flu jab or corona virus jab, because they are at greater risk. It's a choice. Do you trust your own immune system? If you think it isn't strong enough, it makes sense to seek out artificial immunity through vaccination. I trust my own immune system and more importantly I want to try and keep it strong by letting it fight all flu like illnesses naturally.
However, I think this https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4915/13/10/2056/htm is more interesting than the Natural vs Artificial debate
Our findings provide evidence of the spike protein hijacking the DNA damage repair machinery and adaptive immune machinery in vitro. We propose a potential mechanism by which spike proteins may impair adaptive immunity by inhibiting DNA damage repair. Although no evidence has been published that SARS–CoV–2 can infect thymocytes or bone marrow lymphoid cells, our in vitro V(D)J reporter assay shows that the spike protein intensely impeded V(D)J recombination. Consistent with our results, clinical observations also show that the risk of severe illness or death with COVID–19 increases with age, especially older adults who are at the highest risk [22]. This may be because SARS–CoV–2 spike proteins can weaken the DNA repair system of older people and consequently impede V(D)J recombination and adaptive immunity. In contrast, our data provide valuable details on the involvement of spike protein subunits in DNA damage repair, indicating that full–length spike–based vaccines may inhibit the recombination of V(D)J in B cells, which is also consistent with a recent study that a full–length spike–based vaccine induced lower antibody titers compared to the RBD–based vaccine [28]. This suggests that the use of antigenic epitopes of the spike as a SARS–CoV–2 vaccine might be safer and more efficacious than the full–length spike. Taken together, we identified one of the potentially important mechanisms of SARS–CoV–2 suppression of the host adaptive immune machinery. Furthermore, our findings also imply a potential side effect of the full–length spike–based vaccine. This work will improve the understanding of COVID–19 pathogenesis and provide new strategies for designing more efficient and safer vaccines.
Personally I want as few as possible of these spike proteins in my body. How many spike proteins do you end up with after being infected? After being vaccinated? After being infected and vaccinated? After being vaccinated multiple times?
What's with this spike protein phobia? If I tell you you end up with 134038 spike proteins after the vaccine, will it make you feel better?
Goes without saying that it seems absolutely bonkers to be simultaneously desperately trying to avoid having any SARS-COV2 spike proteins in your body whole also advocating for immunity by allowing a novel virus to replicate inside your own cells, churning out thousands upon thousands of spike proteins and all the other proteins that make up the virus*
* a virus that has a non-trivial chance of killing you
What's your thoughts on the vaccine toxicity from repeated MRNA doses thing? Interested to hear from you as a guy who works in the industry as I've seen that allegation going around
Sounds like made up bollox tbh. mRNA is extraordinarily fragile, with a half life of just a few hours. It’s completely cleared from your body within days. So it makes no sense to have some sort of accumulated toxicity after doses given weeks (or months) apart.
Where exactly has that allegation been going around?
I did say "Personally I want as few as possible of these spike proteins in my body".
How many MRNA molecules are in a typical vaccine dose and how many spike proteins does each MRNA molecule make once inside a cell? What is the total number of spike proteins made by all the MRNA molecules? Hundreds? Thousands? Millions? Billions? I don't have an exact answer but I believe it is much greater than the number of spike proteins roaming around after infection, especially a mild infection which is what the majority experience.
Would you say the vaccine has a trivial chance of killing you in addition to your "a virus that has a non-trivial chance of killing you"? It's another VS battle. Corona Virus Deaths VS Vaccine Deaths. It's not straightforward either because what is a corona virus death and what is a vaccine death? Also, when is the battle? Now or in the future? Anyone can google "number of corona virus deaths" and "number of vaccine deaths" but nobody actually knows whether the data is accurate or not. The choice is either I believe that number, I don't believe that number or I don't know.
So, bullshit sources then. Got it.as if you care
Thanks for the response and thoughts pogue
I was actually curious.
yeah judging by your response you're very curious rather than following me thread to thread because i upset you in some other one
you're also definitely so curious that you'd have PMed me that question rather than ask me in the hope of invoking some other guys to respond and quote me
Oh, you're one of those. How predictable.