What % of the eligible dutchie population have had:
at least one dose?
had two doses?
The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll
- Thread starter Badunk
- Start date
at least one dose?
had two doses?
Looking at the graph 75% have had 1 shot and 65% have had 2 shots
Cases are up 2% on last week and the R rate is on the climb towards 1
Well vaxx proof to enter cafes is in place, apart from public stoning I'm not sure what else you can do. Personally I'm in favour of companies making it mandatory if you want to keep your job.
Medicare levy increase, reduced access to tax breaks, make it conditional to enrol kids in school or childcare, make vaccination conditional for most employments or enrolment to Uni etc etc
Lots of ways
Netherlands are at 86.3% (at least one dose) and 82.4% (course complete) of your over 18s. Vaccination has only recently opened to 12-18s, but that group is already 50% fully vaccinated.
You can probably get to 90% of over 18s by targeted campaigns, easy access to vaccines etc. It gets tougher as you go down the age groups of course - less personal risk from Covid, more likely to have had (or think they've had) Covid. Even so the "willingness to be vaccinated" surveys suggest about 85% of the younger ones plan to be vaccinated - maybe once a "certificate of recovery" runs out or if foreign travel or similar issue demands it. Getting past the 90% of adults mark is tough though.
It's easy to talk about people losing their job, harder when it's that HGV driver or farmworker that you're short of (taking UK examples there, as I don't know the shortage jobs in the Netherlands).
Same with school kids. You have to know who you're excluding - there's a strong chance you'll exclude the most disadvantaged kids, from the most deprived homes, and you might magnify racial inequality in the same move.
When you head into the groups most disconnected from normal society, the homeless, the long-term jobless, the ones going through serious mental health issues you get another problem. You've got nothing to threaten them with (they aren't going to work, night clubs or on holiday anyway) And you risk compounding their problems rather than removing a risk - particular if it sounds like the kind of coercion they already fear. Incentives and care are needed more than enforcement.
Sweden have decided to stop using Moderna with their under 30s, due to concerns over myocarditis. New vaccinations in this age group will be with Pfizer.
They emphasise that it's a rare complication and that most people soon recover, but as they do have Pfizer available where the risk profile looks better, they're switching to that.
They emphasise that it's a rare complication and that most people soon recover, but as they do have Pfizer available where the risk profile looks better, they're switching to that.
Shocking stuff, that.
What the feck
Unfortunately people with unusual conditions, and ones that can't be seen on blood tests, scans etc often have to deal with a lot of medical rejection before being taken seriously. If your friend didn't meet one of the standard criteria, for an epileptic fit say, I guess some are likely to assume that it's simply a hoax or maybe imagination rather than something that with the right handling they can diagnose or treat.
Something like this:
https://www.medpagetoday.com/neurology/generalneurology/94151
Could be involved for example, and that could take ages to get an actual diagnosis.
But finding support quickly and and finding support that will keep digging for a proper diagnosis at the same time - that's tough, particularly where health services are stretched.
CFR = case fatality rate
Calculates how likely you are to die if you catch covid. Remember though, you are also less likely to catch covid if you've been vaccinated - so the advantages of being vaccinated are even higher.
Also remember, some of those unvaccinated ones have already had a previous covid infection. Your mortality risk level will be higher if you've had no prior infection, and no vaccine.
I just hope she gets better soon. It looks really distressing from the vids I've seen that her boyfriend took. She's been trying to go more public with it on her socials in the hope someone gets in touch with answers, or doctors start taking it more seriously. That's brought on a load of abuse too, which I'm guessing she could do without.
She should start off with an open mind about what caused these seizures. It would be very unusual for them to be triggered by a vaccine so there’s a good chance the timing is completely coincidental. If she’s absolutely adamant the vaccine caused them (and won’t listen to alternative theories) then she might not get taken as seriously as she should be. The most important thing is to get properly investigated. Social media will be zero help in this regard. There are all sorts of nasty conditions which can underly new onset seizures and it sounds like she needs to be referred to a neurologist.
Only saw this after my post. That link is fascinating.
She's never had a fit before and had one the first day after the first jab. She put that down to coincidence. After the second jab they began occuring up to ten times a day. I'd be really surprised if it wasn't what caused it, perhaps indirectly?
It can’t be ruled out, that’s for sure. @jojojo’s link gives a good explanation for neurological symptoms associated with - but not caused by - a vaccination. The main thing is to get thoroughly checked out to rule out the proper nastys. Has she had an EEG and CT or MRI of her head etc?
She's been told she's not a priority for the MRI. Not sure about the others. She's a mate but not dead close, so don't know every detail.
Had my covid booster today. Going to be interesting to see the side effects this time.
Had my second AZ dose earlier. Only really have pain at the injection site so far.
That's exactly it. I understand why the individual doctors (and even the local trial teams) can't take action alone. I feel bad about nagging the trial team, my GP and the vaccine centre doctor really - it's not their fault. That's why it needs the national leadership to step in.
In some areas the trialists can't even get boosters, despite being 10 months past their second dose. That branch of the limbo group includes some health workers, and over 70s. My issue is mostly about my travel restrictions, theirs is also very directly about their health.
I still get notifications from NIHR (NHS research) telling me how great the trials are and inviting me to join another one. Not a chance
Looks like you pushed them over the edge! Not sure whether I can just go ahead and book myself in now, or whether I should wait for them to invite me.
The Novavax trialists lobby have been pretty determined. They've ended up getting a fair bit of media coverage, as well as doing a lot of moaning to MPs, people like JVT, and groups like NIHR.
It is unfortunate that it's come down to a fight to get an untested re-vaccination though. To be fair to JVT and that team, they always tried to argue the case that trialists should be included in all UK definitions of vaccinated. But ultimately a lot of us are walking away, not because of fears over the efficacy, but because of travel issues in Europe. I'm not surprised that deal proved impossible, I'm just frustrated that it took so long for the PHE etc to accept that it was already a problem.
The trouble of course is that whenever you start down the road of getting a vaccine, if they stick to the idea of "individual counselling" and 8 weeks+ between doses - you're basically looking at three months before you're officially vaccinated to international standards. That's a long time even with the guideline changes.
Looks like you may need to wait for an update from your trial site:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/clinical-trialists-to-be-offered-top-up-vaccine-doses
"The additional doses will initially be offered to those taking part in the Novavax trial, which includes the vast majority of those in ongoing trials for vaccines not yet approved for deployment. The offer will then be rolled out to participants in other relevant trials within the coming weeks. Novavax participants will be offered two doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, with an eight-week interval between first and second doses."
Italy has reached the target of 80% of eligible citizens (over 12 years old) being fully-vaccinated. It's a good result for us, as the country was slow to get going.
There’s freedom of speech, which also means you’re free to call idiots, fecking idiots.
Is the booster jab any different from the first (or second)?
I've had both jabs (second was 4-5 months ago) and first ever flu jab last year. Didn't get any pain from any.. hoping booster is same.
It will now get moving in certain countries in Western Europe, as governments are implementing 2G models and firms as well. Self testing is getting removed, so to go to the office, you would need to pay for a PCR test if not vaccinated or infected previously, which isn't cheap.
The boosters are standard Pfizer doses - same doses as the ones that people have been getting for months.
I had a flu jab last year and didn't feel anything. This one hurt straight away, which probably means the vaccinator hit a bit of my arm that didn't want hitting. Fortunately it was more or less back to normal by the time I went to bed.
I say fortunately because Pfizer arm was too tender to lie on, In fact I had to prop it up on a pillow to stop it complaining. It took a couple of days to get it back to normal.
Encouraging news from the inventors of MDMA
When you've heard so many bullshit anti-vax arguments, that when a close colleague who believes in natural immunity and homeopathic remedies confides in you about leaving the company due to said company mandating proof of vaccination or termination, you don't call him a stupid idiot who should just get the shot, but in the interest of maintaining a valuable connection, you fire off some of those bullshit anti-vax arguments back to him <
75% of what? The entire population or the eligble ?
In my country 68% is fully vaccinated, but we don't give it to those aged 0-15.
Keep us posted. I'm coming up to 6 months now, so should need the booster too.
Huge study (22 million people) shows vaccination reduces death and hospitalisation by 90%
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/11/french-study-vaccines-cut-covid-deaths
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/11/french-study-vaccines-cut-covid-deaths
Only other side effects really were some aches and very short headaches. All that's pretty much gone now.
One for the stats fans.
We all love a league table or a graph telling a story. Sometimes that tells us that, "X is doing a better job of vaccinating its over 60s than Y." Sometimes it's comparing hospitalisations in the vaxxed versus hospitalisations in the unvaxxed. The trouble is that while a lot of countries know how many people they've vaxxed, they don't know how many people are unvaxxed.
A description of the issue and why it's a problem:
We all love a league table or a graph telling a story. Sometimes that tells us that, "X is doing a better job of vaccinating its over 60s than Y." Sometimes it's comparing hospitalisations in the vaxxed versus hospitalisations in the unvaxxed. The trouble is that while a lot of countries know how many people they've vaxxed, they don't know how many people are unvaxxed.
A description of the issue and why it's a problem:
With production of some of the covid vaccines, like J&J, slow to build up, other vaccines like Novavax not delivering at all, and India (who were expected to be a big supplier to COVAX) having to focus on its internal needs rather than the export market - lots of the world are still waiting for vaccines.
COVAX/GAVI was expected to handle a lot of the global vaccine distribution but it simply hasn't received the vaccines to distribute.
A report on some of the vaccine producers who are stepping in:
COVAX/GAVI was expected to handle a lot of the global vaccine distribution but it simply hasn't received the vaccines to distribute.
A report on some of the vaccine producers who are stepping in:
I was surprised to find out my 60 year old parents are getting their booster dose today 6 months after the first round. Is that really necessary when half the world is still waiting to start?
It depends who you listen to. There's evidence that it's really an essential third dose for some people - people with organ transplants, blood cancers and some other conditions, or who take medications that affect the immune response.
For others it may be unnecessary. In the UK they vaccinated the over 80s and some other high risk groups first. There's evidence that their protection is going down, and that the booster/third dose fixes it. If you only look at the vaccine as a method to stop people dying there's a case for stopping at that point.
Or you assume that the decline in performance in the over 80s, will become a decline for the over 70s etc etc once they get past that 6 to 8 month mark. In which case you carry on boosting all the over 50s before you get to that stage.
This approach also seems to have the advantage that with a big dose of fresh antibodies, you probably stop not just severe disease (hospitalisations and deaths) - you can stop infections (and further spread) and long covid etc.
Of course it's another impact on global rollout, the UK is going to use millions of doses to do it. In terms of lives saved, those doses could do more in under-vaccinated countries, but that's not generally how national public health authorities see their responsibilities.
Incidentally, the biggest boost in the UK in terms of cutting hospitalisations and deaths would be to vaccinate the unvaxxed. In particular it's worth fighting really hard to vax the unvaxxed over 60s. Success in getting those last few percent could make a big difference.
BuT VacCiNeS Don’T StOp TRanNsMissiOn…
Last edited:
Interesting article from the US taking about vaccine take-up and why a large number of people have remained unvaccinated.
The UK has some similarities. If we replace the words "no private health insurance" with the idea of groups that find it hard to trust (or get access to good quality) healthcare, then maybe even more similarities.
The UK has some similarities. If we replace the words "no private health insurance" with the idea of groups that find it hard to trust (or get access to good quality) healthcare, then maybe even more similarities.