The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll

How's your immunity looking? Had covid - vote twice - vax status and then again for infection status

  • Vaxxed but no booster

  • Boostered

  • Still waiting in queue for first vaccine dose

  • Won't get vaxxed (unless I have to for travel/work etc)

  • Past infection with covid + I've been vaccinated

  • Past infection with covid - I've not been vaccinated

Results are only viewable after voting.
10 days ago my parents took 3rd shot, kinda unhapppy that they couldnt switch to non Sinofarm one, didnt want to be a smart ass and force the issue, their doctor kinda recommended sticking to Chinese one, so be it. Something might change if there is ever a need for 4th.

Good news that i am having some uncles/aunts coming around and finally they decided to get a shot, they want to pick between Pfizer and Moderna (If there is such option), asked me which one is better, i have no idea about it, so can anyone share some knowledge or experiences regarding those two.
 
R'hllor said:
10 days ago my parents took 3rd shot, kinda unhapppy that they couldnt switch to non Sinofarm one, didnt want to be a smart ass and force the issue, their doctor kinda recommended sticking to Chinese one, so be it. Something might change if there is ever a need for 4th.

Good news that i am having some uncles/aunts coming around and finally they decided to get a shot, they want to pick between Pfizer and Moderna (If there is such option), asked me which one is better, i have no idea about it, so can anyone share some knowledge or experiences regarding those two.
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Pfizer was fine for me - arm ache the day after the first one, twelve hours of malaise the day after the second one. Absolutely nothing that should dissuade anyone from getting them.
 
VeevaVee said:
This makes a lot of sense. Explains why a number of people can be in contact with someone who has it and only one catch it. This has happened twice with me now.
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Met up with 10-12 people from office, one of them tested positive 2 days later.. and passed it on to only 1 other person. All of us were double jabbed with AZ/Covishield and spent many hours indoors with the person who was originally positive.
 
jojojo said:
With production of some of the covid vaccines, like J&J, slow to build up, other vaccines like Novavax not delivering at all, and India (who were expected to be a big supplier to COVAX) having to focus on its internal needs rather than the export market - lots of the world are still waiting for vaccines.

COVAX/GAVI was expected to handle a lot of the global vaccine distribution but it simply hasn't received the vaccines to distribute.

A report on some of the vaccine producers who are stepping in:
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I work in fundraising for one of the UN agencies, and we've raised a ridiculous amount this year off the back of COVAX. Reporting on it next year is going to be a bit of a conundrum.

Glad to hear of other countries trying to find their own internal solutions though. Just wish the imbalance of distribution between rich and poor countries didn't mean a potential 100m doses were going to go to waste.
 
lynchie said:


https://valneva.com/press-release/v...djuvanted-covid-19-vaccine-candidate-vla2001/

Cautiously excited - hopefully this assay validation thing won't hold up approval too long (looks nervously at Novavax)
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Looks good. As late in the day as this and others like Novavax are arriving, there's still a massive job to do globally. Fridge storage vaccines are important, and so is having a range of vaccines available.

A real shame that it got so soundly rubbished by Javid etc. It's one thing saying that it will arrive too late to be useful to the UK, it's quite another to suggest that it won't get approval.
 
Just because the results are so striking...

England's rollout to the U18s is still crawling along. Looks like it'll need a major revamp to get it moving quickly enough to matter.

Meanwhile on the booster rollout:



So it's not that England has decided to prioritise booster rollout.
 
I am still considering if I should get a booster when I get the message, everywhere I read, interviews etc, they say it should only be for immunocompromised and elderly for now, younger healthy people should wait.

I believe FDA even doesn't recommend booster for younger healthy people.
 
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I'm 43 in a few weeks, happy to murder a few elderly people if I can bump myself up the list for a booster.

Bring on the dead arm day.
 
Got my booster yesterday. Not nearly the same side effects as #2 which knocked me on my ass for 10 hours.
 
A nice piece of "anecdata" on boosters:



All the usual stuff applies. Just one person. We don't know how antibody levels equate to vaccine effectiveness or protection from serious illness. Real immune responses aren't just about circulating antibodies.

But, a really intriguing image that seems to show that the booster might actually be dose 3. All three doses were Pfizer.
 
WI_Red said:
Got my booster yesterday. Not nearly the same side effects as #2 which knocked me on my ass for 10 hours.
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Got my booster (3rd Pfizer) this afternoon and so far not even a sore arm.

edit: about 18 hours after the jab, my arm is sore. Just like the 1st two times.
 
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So in simple terms, why are cases skyrocketing? Is it a drop in effectiveness of the vaccines that were first given 6 months or so ago, or rose in variant cases that circumvent vaccine effectiveness?

I honestly can’t tell where we are anymore with so much mixed messaging in the media - is the “light at the end of the tunnel” flickering??
 
Heardy said:
So in simple terms, why are cases skyrocketing? Is it a drop in effectiveness of the vaccines that were first given 6 months or so ago, or rose in variant cases that circumvent vaccine effectiveness?

I honestly can’t tell where we are anymore with so much mixed messaging in the media - is the “light at the end of the tunnel” flickering??
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In the UK, most of the cases are in the unvaccinated, particularly in under 18s who we've been slow to vaccinate, and under 12s who we aren't vaccinating.

If you mean why is it a problem for the NHS, that's a bit different. Even a very effective vaccine in a country with high case rates will mean a lot of vaccinated people catching covid, and some of them will get seriously ill.

People who had second doses more than 6 months ago (and some other people whose immune system didn't mount a strong response to the vaccine) are experiencing a loss in effectiveness. Delta is also a bit worse in terms of the vaccine protecting people from catching it, but not in terms of protecting people from serious illness. Combine the two factors, with high case rates and the most vulnerable groups are at increasing risk again.

The over 80s mostly got their second doses in January/February - 8 months ago now. So the booster is urgent for them and there are already some signs that their case rates are starting to fall as boosters get done. The over 70s mostly got dose 2 in April, so it's time for them to get this booster.

Case rates don't tell the full story. They just warn people how much danger is around. Hopefully the unvaxxed will take them as a prompt to get vaccinated, and the long time vaxxed will get boosters. There's evidence from Israel that boosted people get protection from infection and serious illness really quickly - which should mean fewer cases and a lot fewer serious cases.
 
A fascinating slide of how the cases have moved through the age groups (the left hand scale is % who test positive on a PCR test taken on a particular day at the request of ONS). You can see cases falling in the 18-30s as vaccines kick-in, rising sharply amongst the unvaxxed under 18s and wobbling around in the other older groups.



The "no weeing lane" reference is a swimming pool comment - you can't have a designated no weeing allowed lane in your swimming pool and not expect it to get some contamination from the other lanes :smirk: The vaccines though seem to be doing a pretty decent job despite that.
 
Another big vote for vaccine boosters - placebo controlled comparison trial this time:

 
Pexbo said:
Aren’t they the same thing?
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Booster implies giving dose to replace efficacy lost since previous dose(s). These data imply that the third dose gives you far superior efficacy to anything ever achieved with previous doses i.e. the vaccine needs to be given three times to achieve optimal efficacy.

Which also potentially means we won’t see the same waning after dose 3 that we saw after 1/2. Might not need another shot for years (potentially ever)
 
Heardy said:
So in simple terms, why are cases skyrocketing? Is it a drop in effectiveness of the vaccines that were first given 6 months or so ago, or rose in variant cases that circumvent vaccine effectiveness?

I honestly can’t tell where we are anymore with so much mixed messaging in the media - is the “light at the end of the tunnel” flickering??
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Because, in simple terms, there is no sterile immunisation. Antibodies in your blood don't prevent an airborn virus to get into the mucous membrane of your upper respiratory tract and to continue spreading onto others from there. Or in Prof. Drosten's (Germany's Fauci if you don't know him) words (Google translated it from German, can't bother to do it manually, you get the gist):

At the same time, however, we see: the transmission protection
goes down the drain after two months. If you have a booster
now, then it only becomes to be there again for a while.
That's the IgA. That comes up again. But that stays that way
not forever. That'll probably be after two or three
Months ago. Then again
no transmission protection there. That is, actually is
it's what we're doing right now with this type of vaccination
can do.
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IgA is Immunoglobulin A, antibodies in your mucous membranes that don't remain there for long.

Or as our health minister, Jens Spahn, said: "If we started testing vaccinated people, the pandemic would never end."

How long the "protection against a severe case" remains is unknown yet but rest assured, Covid jab will be a yearly jab like against the flu. There is no "double jab, maybe a booster if I'm old, and then I'm done with it forever." Israel is already preparing for a 4th jab:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ases-surge-israel-offers-a-lesson-in-boosters

Israel always a step ahead as they were among the first to vaccinate everyone. They already have over 40 % vaccinated with a third dose right now. We'll soon follow this winter and next winter we'll be at the 4th dose after Israel did the 5th. Etc.

Unless they come up with some new medication methods.
 


I'm not being flippant but this is a genuine miracle of capitalism. A trend develops and in a few months it is commercialised and targeted to niche audiences using voluntarily-released private data and the correct culture war signifiers.
No (short-term, non-fundamental) will go unserved.
 
11101 said:
I was surprised to find out my 60 year old parents are getting their booster dose today 6 months after the first round. Is that really necessary when half the world is still waiting to start?
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I was able to book one last night for December, which will be 6 months for me (Marche's open to bookings for all over-60s now). I know what you're saying about the inequities, but all we can do is go along with whatever's being offered to us where we live.

If us oldies don't get boosters, the countries that have it under control will slide down the ladder again.
 
evil_geko said:
Now I am even more reluctant to boost. Argh.


Risk of mRNA Covid booster causing heart inflammation in young adults continues to worry scientists, Dr. Ofer Levy says

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/15/hea...ntinues-to-worry-scientists-dr-levy-says.html
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That's not really saying there is a risk. Just that they know there was a risk in the first round and it might carry over to a booster. No evidence yet to suggest it will as young people haven't had it yet, might be the case that if you were fine first time you will also be fine for the booster.
 
The UK has been monitoring blood donors for S antibodies (you get these from vaccine or from infection) and N antibodies (infection) for a while. This chart gives an idea of what's happening to vaccine induced antibody levels across the community as the months pass.

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A couple of things stand out. The majority of under 40s are in the 1000+ group right now. A lot of over 40s didn't get into the 1000+ group at all, and most are now below that level.

Usual caveats apply. Blood donors are more likely to be vaccinated than the population in general. We don't know what constitutes "enough" antibodies, and circulating antibodies are only part of the immune response (and are supposed to fall over time anyway) We do know that the effectiveness of the vaccine has started to wane amongst those who were vaccinated first.

Still - three doses look like they'll be a good thing for the over 40s.

For the under 40s? Wait and see really. Certainly, there will be a lot of scrutiny of the risks v benefits for that age group.

 
Novavax have finally filed for MHRA approval. It looks like they're asking for approval of the India factory (SII) only. If they get approval from the MHRA, it could be a boost to rollout in other countries if not in the UK. COVAX won't distribute vaccines that haven't had approval by one of the big regulators (like the CDC, EMA or MHRA).

It would be nice to think they've fixed their manufacturing problems now, but the fact that this admission cites the India factory suggest that they're still having problems with their assay procedures at the US and European plants.

 
Got my Moderna booster yesterday. I haven't felt nearly as bad as I did after the second shot. Just some aches but no headache, chills, etc. I have done a better job about getting ahead of it with prophylactic ibuprofen/Tylenol.
 
People in NI who are over 50 and had their second jab more than 6 months ago can book a booster in Well pharmacy. My folks were waiting on a call from their GP and weren't aware they were being offered in pharmacies. They were in getting their flu jabs and the guy booked them in next week for a Moderna booster. Just a heads up in case anyone's anxiously waiting for a call from their GP.
 
Vaccines again showing exceptional protection against death. This time it's an analysis based on ONS data from death certificates.

The statistical analysis underlying the report is complicated because they have to build the vaccine rollout - mostly scheduled by age - into their ratios. It's also important to note that the data collection period ends at roughly the same time as we were starting to see vaccine waning coming into the story for the most vulnerable groups. The reason the ONS stats are on that timelag is because formal registration of deaths with their office can take up to 4 weeks.

 
I’m really dismayed today and didn’t know where to post this. I went to listen to Aguero update on talksport (this was probably my mistake) and the comment section is just full, and I mean FULL of antivaxers telling us to “do our own research” and that we will soon start “dropping like flies”

Do your own research, but none of them knew about Aguero’s history of heart issues, or can even click on the first google search result to find out about them.

I think it was so disappointing because it was such a large quantity of posts and I had myself convinced it was a small minority.

I still can’t get my head round what the end game is in this story. Why would I do extensive chemical and biological research that I don’t really understand, rather than trust the thousands of experts on the issue? Are they all in on the conspiracy? Or do these intrepid researchers all have degrees in microbiology?
 
Maluco said:
I’m really dismayed today and didn’t know where to post this. I went to listen to Aguero update on talksport (this was probably my mistake) and the comment section is just full, and I mean FULL of antivaxers telling us to “do our own research” and that we will soon start “dropping like flies”

Do your own research, but none of them knew about Aguero’s history of heart issues, or can even click on the first google search result to find out about them.

I think it was so disappointing because it was such a large quantity of posts and I had myself convinced it was a small minority.

I still can’t get my head round what the end game is in this story. Why would I do extensive chemical and biological research that I don’t really understand, rather than trust the thousands of experts on the issue? Are they all in on the conspiracy? Or do these intrepid researchers all have degrees in microbiology?
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It really is a weird and bizarre phenomenon. It's hard to understand what drives them. Some are just anti-authority by default, some don't like being told to take a vaccin that was developed "so quickly". It's worrying and I don't know how to convince them.
 
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