The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll

[jojojo]

So with all the news about getting different stock in how does it work for the second jab? If your first was AZ is it okay for the second to be Moderna?

Almost certainly, but it's not been subject to clinical trials so it's only an "almost". There are some trials underway, but they won't be reporting for a while.

That said, I'd be surprised if the second doses of AZ actually get delayed, and even if it happens it'll only be by a week or so. Still within the window that the regulators are happy with.

 

[maba723]

Will be taking the Sputnik vaccine in the next couple of weeks. That is the only one available for me at the current time. Not complaining though

 

[zing]

Will be taking the Sputnik vaccine in the next couple of weeks. That is the only one available for me at the current time. Not complaining though

Which country are you in?

 

[maba723]

Which country are you in?

Lebanon

The government took out a loan from the world bank for the vaccines but are only allowed to purchase vaccines approved by the WHO. We are also vaccinating at a very slow rate because we only recieve like 30,000 doses a week

The private sector is allowed to purchase all types of vaccines but only one was able to secure Sputnik vaccines because the other companies only want to deal with the ministry of health( due to lack of supply)

Also, residents are not allowed to purchase the vaccine for now, the vaccines ordered through the private sector have to be sold to companies who will then vaccinate their employees free of charge.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Will be taking the Sputnik vaccine in the next couple of weeks. That is the only one available for me at the current time. Not complaining though

Sputnik data is excellent. Right up there with the very best.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

That is one hell of a brutal lockdown too.

More than 80% of the country’s 19 million inhabitants, including all residents of the capital, Santiago, have been put under a strict lockdown that prevents them leaving the house even to buy groceries or pharmacy supplies this weekend. During the week, each person is allowed two short-term permits to leave the house to buy essentials and can exercise outdoors between 7am and 8.30am

 

[Traub]

That is one hell of a brutal lockdown too.

My own quick google research (so it may be wrong) implies this is the Chinese vaccine, so it does put a dampener on it. Of course there are probably a multitude of reasons.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

My own quick google research (so it may be wrong) implies this is the Chinese vaccine, so it does put a dampener on it. Of course there are probably a multitude of reasons.

I’m hoping it’s mainly down to timing. Not waiting long enough after the vaccine to start socialising again. It’s a sobering warning for the UK though. And substantiates all the government warnings about being a long way from out of the woods just yet.

 

[golden_blunder]

This comparison with the UK to a continent of 27 other countries is getting a bit out of hand. What happens if UK send the EU 6 million, that's barely anything spread across that many people.

EU region of 450-500m people should be making vaccines under EU firms and not sniping at small region of 67 million trying to shame them out of some vaccines which hardly make a dent to a continent's needs and severely damages this small country's vaccine rollout with one of the highest deaths rates which has just been through a more contagious variant and another long lockdown which has not ended yet, started in early Jan, this is what is seems to be about, a political score to mask a huge gaping hole for a continent trying shame a single country to give up some of its small capacity endangering the rollout.

The EU deal with AZ, that have no manufacturing vaccine experience and had to set up new plants in the EU to supply the EU should raise concern that the EU is making such a deal in the first place while US firms like Pfizer J&J operate within the EU. It highlights Europe's expertise and manufacturing is not being utilized and it's quite embarrassing and shameful to be sniping at the UK signalling about vaccine exports when it's just corporate deals made while they were considering it all, nothing altruistic about it.

EU have lots of vaccines coming very soon, lots of big deals made, just a couple months later is all so I don't get all the fighting. Some MPs in Germany are quite pragmatic about the situation and say this is the price we pay.

Correct me if im wrong 20m doses going to U.K. is quite a lot out of your overall capacity, no?

also 6m doses is 6m doses. It means 6m people could get vaccinated with a first dose

 

[lynchie]

I’m hoping it’s mainly down to timing. Not waiting long enough after the vaccine to start socialising again. It’s a sobering warning for the UK though. And substantiates all the government warnings about being a long way from out of the woods just yet.

Hopefully it's that simple - if the Sinovac vaccine isn't as good as claimed, that's going to screw up a lot of plans for vaccinating the world.

Also, while their total doses is similar to the UK, they seem to have gone with prioritising getting "fully vaccinated", so they've only given doses to a third of their population so far, a long old way from any sort of herd immunity.

 

[Eendracht maakt macht]

Sputnik data is excellent. Right up there with the very best.

And it has the coolest name.

 

[Dumbstar]

And it has the coolest name.

Spunkit?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Hopefully it's that simple - if the Sinovac vaccine isn't as good as claimed, that's going to screw up a lot of plans for vaccinating the world.

Also, while their total doses is similar to the UK, they seem to have gone with prioritising getting "fully vaccinated", so they've only given doses to a third of their population so far, a long old way from any sort of herd immunity.

The article says they’ve given at least one dose to “nearly half” of their population. Which is similar to the Uk, no?

They’ve given one third both doses. Which would be well ahead of the uk.

 

[jojojo]

Correct me if im wrong 20m doses going to U.K. is quite a lot out of your overall capacity, no?

also 6m doses is 6m doses. It means 6m people could get vaccinated with a first dose

That's mostly Pfizer. Which is not surprising as they basically have one factory doing the final stage of production in Belgium and another one in the US. Not surprisingly though, given we're looking at global manufacturers - that Belgium factory is actually only doing part of the process, using the UK and German plant amongst others for the basic ingredients. Knock over any component and it falls down.

Despite the fact that it's mostly Pfizer that's actually been exported to the UK, the focus has been on AZ. Some of that AZ was UK or India bulk vaccine that got sent to EU sites for finish and fill. An EU product, but actually a multinational product in which most of the production process took place abroad. The headline numbers hide a more complex picture that's actually the very definition of globalisation and some very fragile supply chains.

Everyone is chasing capacity. There are deals being made between vaccine makers and rival companies to expand production massively. Even once you find the right kind of plant/bioreactor to make bulk vaccine, basic products like tubing and disposable reactor linings are in shortage. The US hold the key to that ramp up as they (or their companies) basically control that supply, as well as some of the reagents - including some that are on export hold. The UK only gets a mention because it's right on the doorstep.

By Q3 the entire picture will look different (if only because the US will have more than enough vaccine for itself) but Q2 is going to be complicated. Anything that makes it more complicated is probably a no win for anyone.

 

[jojojo]

One for the you cannot make this up file:
GSK will do the finish/fill processing for Novavax and they'll use their Barnard Castle factory



First doses they think could be in May. Incidentally, Novavax have admitted that they're having difficulty getting finish/fill basics like vials, caps and filters, so this is one of those times when a government sponsored marriage probably suits everyone.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

One for the you cannot make this up file:
GSK will do the finish/fill processing for Novavax and they'll use their Barnard Castle factory



First doses they think could be in May. Incidentally, Novavax have admitted that they're having difficulty getting finish/fill basics like vials, caps and filters, so this is one of those times when a government sponsored marriage probably suits everyone.

The repeated mention of “for use in the UK” just smacks of more putting UK first, to the exclusion of others.

60 million doses, only starting to come online in May/June. At which point there surely won’t be many UK adults in need of a vaccine. Why on earth won’t they be exporting some of those 60 million doses?

 

[C.M.P]

Probably don't want all the bad press AZ are getting, easier to tell people you can deliver earlier than late. Not good for countries trying to plan the roll out but that's where we are. Under promise over deliver

 

[jojojo]

The repeated mention of “for use in the UK” just smacks of more putting UK first, to the exclusion of others.

60 million doses, only starting to come online in May/June. At which point there surely won’t be many UK adults in need of a vaccine. Why on earth won’t they be exporting some of those 60 million doses?

At a guess, that kind of wording suits Novavax and GSK, as well as the government. The last thing any company will want right now is a question mark or ambiguity over who's got first dibs on any output. Novavax haven't signed a contract with the EU yet, so it may have removed an admin/legal issue for them, as well as a capacity one.

Apparently originally the Novavax bulk product from Teesside was going for finish/fill in Germany.

In terms of end destination, it wouldn't be a surprise if Novavax became the booster supplier in Q4, if a mutation adapted version is needed. Their product lends itself to a multivalent approach. As for the earliest batches, I suspect the UK would rather give away any surplus rather than export, though maybe Ireland can get some at mates' rates.

 

[Member 55443]

Apparently where I live they had so much spare vaccine yesterday evening that they were offering it out to peoples cats/dogs.

 

[Rado_N]

Had my AZ jab about 2 hours ago.

Found it kinda weird that there was a line of people outside just waiting for any “spares” becoming available.

Mega efficient service though, was in and out in about 7 mins and that’s only because they made us wait 5 after the jab to make sure we didn’t collapse or whatever.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

At a guess, that kind of wording suits Novavax and GSK, as well as the government. The last thing any company will want right now is a question mark or ambiguity over who's got first dibs on any output. Novavax haven't signed a contract with the EU yet, so it may have removed an admin/legal issue for them, as well as a capacity one.

Apparently originally the Novavax bulk product from Teesside was going for finish/fill in Germany.

In terms of end destination, it wouldn't be a surprise if Novavax became the booster supplier in Q4, if a mutation adapted version is needed. Their product lends itself to a multivalent approach. As for the earliest batches, I suspect the UK would rather give away any surplus rather than export, though maybe Ireland can get some at mates' rates.

My point is nobody should have first dibs on any output. The contracts that the UK and US are negotiating with these firms are morally bankrupt (in my opinion) This pandemic is going to drag on and on until the whole world is vaccinated and no country or region should include terms in their contracts with these companies that require everything manufactured on their territory to stay there.

Thankfully the US and UK are unique in this approach. I just hope this latest twist doesn’t escalate vaccine nationalism any more than it is already. Otherwise we’re all in deep shit.

 

[jojojo]

Had my AZ jab about 2 hours ago.

Found it kinda weird that there was a line of people outside just waiting for any “spares” becoming available.

Mega efficient service though, was in and out in about 7 mins and that’s only because they made us wait 5 after the jab to make sure we didn’t collapse or whatever.

Sounds like going to United

But yeah, just about everyone I've spoken to has been impressed by the speed and efficiency of the operation.

 

[711]

My point is nobody should have first dibs on any output. The contracts that the UK and US are negotiating with these firms are morally bankrupt (in my opinion) This pandemic is going to drag on and on until the whole world is vaccinated and no country or region should include terms that require everything manufactured on their territory to stay stay there.

Thankfully the US and UK are unique in this approach. I just hope this latest twist doesn’t escalate vaccine nationalism any more than it is already. Otherwise we’re all in deep shit.

The UK, and others, massively over-ordering is going to bring that about all the faster isn't it? Yes the UK wants to do itself first, but after that it isn't going to pour the rest down the drain.

I wonder how the surplus will be distributed, given to the poorest, given to favoured allies, or sold to the highest bidder to recoup some of the costs? I don't know, but in a very few months time it could be that the UK is giving shedloads away whilst others still haven't managed to vaccinate themselves, maybe things will look different if that happens.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The UK, and others, massively over-ordering is going to bring that about all the faster isn't it? Yes the UK wants to do itself first, but after that it isn't going to pour the rest down the drain.

I wonder how the surplus will be distributed, given to the poorest, given to favoured allies, or sold to the highest bidder to recoup some of the costs? I don't know, but in a very few months time it could be that the UK is giving shedloads away whilst others still haven't managed to vaccinate themselves, maybe things will look different if that happens.

The problem with having some countries vaccinated much faster than everyone else is that the countries with much less vaccinated people can churn up and spit out variants that could turn out to be resistant to the vaccines already rolled out. So even the most vaccinated countries are back to square one. And the whole process can take years longer than it would otherwise.

It was always going to be tricky to try and balance the vaccine distribution around the world and the EU’s complaints are the literal definition of a first world problem! I just have a huge issue with the UK/US cosying up to the manufacturers, giving them lucrative contracts for development and supply, only to contractually oblige them to retain 100% of their output for the country in which their plants are based. I find that indefensible tbh.

 

[Snowjoe]

The UK, and others, massively over-ordering is going to bring that about all the faster isn't it? Yes the UK wants to do itself first, but after that it isn't going to pour the rest down the drain.

I wonder how the surplus will be distributed, given to the poorest, given to favoured allies, or sold to the highest bidder to recoup some of the costs? I don't know, but in a very few months time it could be that the UK is giving shedloads away whilst others still haven't managed to vaccinate themselves, maybe things will look different if that happens.

We are gonna mix the surplus with champagne and spray it in front of the world as we win the Euros and Rule Britannia plays over the tannoy

 

[finneh]

The UK, and others, massively over-ordering is going to bring that about all the faster isn't it? Yes the UK wants to do itself first, but after that it isn't going to pour the rest down the drain.

I wonder how the surplus will be distributed, given to the poorest, given to favoured allies, or sold to the highest bidder to recoup some of the costs? I don't know, but in a very few months time it could be that the UK is giving shedloads away whilst others still haven't managed to vaccinate themselves, maybe things will look different if that happens.

True enough. I don't know of any country that has done the moral thing and ensured that the vaccines they've secured are distributed worldwide to the 80+ age group before moving on to the next band.

Assuming then that no country is going to be judged an "8 or 9 out of 10" when it comes to their morality, maybe we should give it a year or two before determining who're the 3's and 4's and who're the 6's and 7's.

 

[lynchie]

The article says they’ve given at least one dose to “nearly half” of their population. Which is similar to the Uk, no?

They’ve given one third both doses. Which would be well ahead of the uk.

The journalist has misread the stats as far as I can tell. According to our world in data they've given 50 doses per hundred people, but that's split between 1st and 2nds

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The journalist has misread the stats as far as I can tell. According to our world in data they've given 50 doses per hundred people, but that's split between 1st and 2nds

That makes a bit more sense then. Thanks. Would still make you a bit worried about a) the efficacy of Sinopharm and/or b) exactly how soon in the vaccine roll out is safe to ease off on your PH measures.

 

[horsechoker]

Apparently where I live they had so much spare vaccine yesterday evening that they were offering it out to peoples cats/dogs.

Had my AZ jab about 2 hours ago.

Found it kinda weird that there was a line of people outside just waiting for any “spares” becoming available.

Mega efficient service though, was in and out in about 7 mins and that’s only because they made us wait 5 after the jab to make sure we didn’t collapse or whatever.

Doesn't seem that weird then, can my capybara get vaccinated as well?

 

[711]

The problem with having some countries vaccinated much faster than everyone else is that the countries with much less vaccinated people can churn up and spit out variants that could turn out to be resistant to the vaccines already rolled out. So even the most vaccinated countries are back to square one. And the whole process can take years longer than it would otherwise.

It was always going to be tricky to try and balance the vaccine distribution around the world and the EU’s complaints are the literal definition of a first world problem! I just have a huge issue with the UK/US cosying up to the manufacturers, giving them lucrative contracts for development and supply, only to contractually oblige them to retain 100% of their output for the country in which their plants are based. I find that indefensible tbh.

I get that variants are more likely the more people in the world are not vaccinated, but spreading the vaccine out wouldn't reduce the total number vaccinated in the slightest, so I don't see how it would lead to fewer variants occurring. Happy to be told otherwise of course.

I can see it might be morally right to vaccinate everyone's vulnerable before your own less vulnerable, but that's a separate issue from the creation of variants isn't it? And I wonder how many people would vote to save those in other countries before their own relatives, friends and neighbours anyway? Sounds like you would fair enough, but I doubt most would follow you.

 

[711]

We are gonna mix the surplus with champagne and spray it in front of the world as we win the Euros and Rule Britannia plays over the tannoy

It would be nicer to give it the poorest, but you can vote for that if you want.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I get that variants are more likely the more people in the world are not vaccinated, but spreading the vaccine out wouldn't reduce the total number vaccinated in the slightest, so I don't see how it would lead to fewer variants occurring. Happy to be told otherwise of course.

I can see it might be morally right to vaccinate everyone's vulnerable before your own less vulnerable, but that's a separate issue from the creation of variants isn't it? And I wonder how many people would vote to save those in other countries before their own relatives, friends and neighbours anyway? Sounds like you would fair enough, but I doubt most would follow you.

To be honest, the reason for these variants arising is something I don’t fully understand. I assume that they’re a product of these huge surges but I’ve also read theories that a single immune compromised patient can trigger them, if the virus is allowed to continue to multiply at will over a long period of time. So feck knows really.

On the broader point, I would have a problem with fit and well Irish people in their 30s being vaccinated if I knew there were elderly, or high risk people in other countries (particularly near neighbours) going without because my government had opted to follow the lead of Donald Trump when it came to vaccine procurement. To be honest, I’m not entirely comfortable with Irish people in their 60s getting the jab if there are frontline medical staff anywhere in the world still waiting. Not if a less self-centred strategy from my government could have helped. So I don’t mind the EU exporting vaccines in such vast quantities, even though my own parents are still waiting for their jab.

As other have pointed out, even if the UK exported all the vaccines it manufactures it wouldn’t put much of a dent in the global requirements but the combination of the UK and the US approach has definitely set back the race to snub out this global problem.

 

[gormless]

Had my AZ jab about 2 hours ago.

Found it kinda weird that there was a line of people outside just waiting for any “spares” becoming available.

Mega efficient service though, was in and out in about 7 mins and that’s only because they made us wait 5 after the jab to make sure we didn’t collapse or whatever.

I got my AZ jab Saturday - as a spare after my dr rang me due to knowing my job, which I think is a better system than people off the street. I hope you are spared the side effects I had yesterday!

 

[711]

To be honest, the reason for these variants arising is something I don’t fully understand. I assume that they’re a product of these huge surges but I’ve also read theories that a single immune compromised patient can trigger them, if the virus is allowed to continue to multiply at will over a long period of time. So feck knows really.

On the broader point, I would have a problem with fit and well Irish people in their 30s being vaccinated if I knew there were elderly, or high risk people in other countries (particularly near neighbours) going without because my government had opted to follow the lead of Donald Trump when it came to vaccine procurement. To be honest, I’m not entirely comfortable with Irish people in their 60s getting the jab if there are frontline medical staff anywhere in the world still waiting. Not if a less self-centred strategy from my government could have helped. So I don’t mind the EU exporting vaccines in such vast quantities, even though my own parents are still waiting for their jab.

As other have pointed out, even if the UK exported all the vaccines it manufactures it wouldn’t put much of a dent in the global requirements but the combination of the UK and the US approach has definitely set back the race to snub out this global problem.

I can't disagree with your broader point, it's an individual thing. Similarly though, we could both give up our developed world luxuries and spend more on overseas aid for those in need of medicine, and indeed decent food and water and sewerage, we would probably both vote for that to some extent, but would we give up everything that we actually could?

Still don't get the UK and US thing though, as both have spent more than anyone else, thus creating more vaccines than anyone else, per capita. I'd blame the countries that have not spent big, those that could have done, before the UK and US personally.

 

[TheReligion]

Still don't get the UK and US thing though, as both have spent more than anyone else, thus creating more vaccines than anyone else, per capita. I'd blame the countries that have not spent big, those that could have done, before the UK and US personally.

I'm not sure I follow it either. Both have arguably done, and continue to do, the most worldwide regarding creating, manufacturing and supplying vaccines. Obviously that doesn't prevent them from any criticism but it should most certainly attribute praise.

 

[Rado_N]

I got my AZ jab Saturday - as a spare after my dr rang me due to knowing my job, which I think is a better system than people off the street. I hope you are spared the side effects I had yesterday!

Ha, thanks, nothing more than a minor ache now and then which I’m finding odd as its occasional and not constant.

 

[Snowjoe]

Ha, thanks, nothing more than a minor ache now and then which I’m finding odd as its occasional and not constant.

mine took about 12 hours to begin to hit so tomorrow morning will be the real test as to if you dodge it or not!

 

[P-Nut]

Booked in for my 2nd jab next Wednesday, will finally be fully vaccinated.

 

[Rado_N]

mine took about 12 hours to begin to hit so tomorrow morning will be the real test as to if you dodge it or not!

 

[Manny]

I had my AZ jab on Friday. I had queue in the rain for half an hour to get it.

Only real side effects were aches and headaches on Saturday but I'm fine now.