Jake going in hard on Murdoch and Fox.
The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated
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Constant rioting or constant demonstrations? (Portland? I'm not in the US and I might have missed something, but it's the only major city I'm aware of that has had constant activism since the spring, with frequent violence.)
I am not denying at all that the Dems are hypocrites, and their leaders most of all - I am just not seeing how they are any different from the GOP in that sense.
I think this is a fundamental misunderstanding and something the Dems got wrong in the campaign. People that vote Trump are not necessarily Trump supporters. He's the only GOP presidency candidate available, so if you like what the GOP stands for more generally, then Trump's your guy - as much as you might dislike him. There has been way too much focus on Trump's general idiocy; but in terms of a lot of actual US-oriented policy and legislation (as opposed to weird and inflammatory comments and his personality, or his 'direction' on international affairs), he has just been a general GOP guy.
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Please tell me more about where you see CNN on a political spectrum.
It‘s Neoliberal, so slightly right of centre economically, slightly left culturally.
Some of that is fair comment, but I doubt too many of us sit around in the UK watching CNN - it's not available to most people. Luckily the same is true of Fox news.
Our broadcasters have to be fairly non-partisan by nature, and while we have many shitty tabloid newspapers and websites, we also have some very reputable ones. I think we get quite a balanced view of the world if we steer clear of the likes of the Daily Mail and social media.
I think as the US has moved further and further to the right during my lifetime, it's unsurprising many over there view CNN and the Democrats as left or even 'far left'. Many people in Europe would view the Dems as a centre-right party if they were running for office in their own countries. CNN is much more reasonable in its reporting than Fox, but has found itself operating as the flip-side of the coin to Murdock's network after Reagan's scrapping of the fairness doctrine. The US system under a Republican president allowed that to happen and it's escalated from there into this culture war.
Please tell me more about where you see CNN on a political spectrum.
Luckily no, that place should be a textbook of what radical left and progressive policies can do to a city. I'm in Chicagoland so I've seen what happened both in Chicago and in Kenosha.
I won't be defending or justifying how repubs are less corrupt than the dems, I don't agree with everything they stand for nor do I disagree with everything the dems stand for. As an independent who leans right on some issues and left on others, in the current state of events having to choose blue or red I vote red.
Please tell me more about where you see CNN on a political spectrum.
CNN is center at best. How anyone can think CNN is left, let alone far left is quite frankly baffling.
Kind of feel that this is by far the most ignored issue; the most powerful nation in the world, some would argue a power without equal, refuses a deal in which all other countries have agreed to save the planet from catastrophic environmental damage; I mean does this not raise alarm bells with Trump supporters? I have heard the excuse that the US is being asked too much and that it's unfair to his America First policy but you're the damn leader of the 'free world' and the most powerful nation in the world, of course you should be leading the way.
Yes I would agree with that. There's a big cultural-political gap between the US and EU which explains why CNN is viewed as center over there. Over here CNN is as left as they come from the major outlets, with only MSNBC being more left than that.
Fox and CNN are a mirror of each other, both are biased towards their respective agendas and both have some moderate reporters with little bias and on the other hand some deluded, vile imbeciles like Hannity or Don Lemon.
People shouldn't forget what the Trump administration has done to the EPA, the Interior, etc...
At times it has been unreported.
From Pruitt, to Wheeler, to Zinke, to Wehrum
Sorry, I edited my post in the meantime, but it doesn't matter for this here.
I don't actually think those violent flare-ups (it hasn't been constant since the spring anywhere outside Portland, has it?) have much to do with cities being Democratic or not; rather that cities with higher diversity tend to be more Democratic, and will also have more diversity-related tensions and activism. If anything, therefore, I would think more Trump would give you more trouble, since he will do nothing to address underlying causes. (Although arguably, Biden won't do anything substantial either; he'll just talk about it in a nicer way and not fan the flames.) But I'll admit that I don't live there.
I would say, though, that I have lived in various big cities that you would probably call 'radical left' (or further) in different countries in Europe and different provinces of Canada, and that I would far prefer that over (what I know of) the US. The law-and-order approach and quelling protests may look nice short-term, but they will never fix the issues that lead to the protests, it will just mean that they will flare up again next time there's a trigger. It's no coincidence that US cities don't do well in lists of 'best cities on earth to live' - and that the ones that do feature further down those lists are leftist.
If we rewind this comment a few hundred years, this is like saying "well if you slaves didn't misbehave more people might have voted for Lincoln who would have freed you. So it's partly or wholly your own fault".
Stupid social democrats, socialists and communists opposing the Nazis in the Reichstag. They're the reason Hitler won.
This is what I don't understand. You could totally vote for republican local representatives without voting for Trump. I actually don't understand how you can pretend to be "independent" and vote for Trump unless you're totally self centered on your own personnal issues without realizing that you live in a society where you actually have to interract with people and where their issues will have an impact on your own life. Trump only cares about himself like a lot of politican, but on top of that he destroys any institution he touches, lies far more than anyone you could find and blatently shows that truth or facts aren't a concern for him. This bipartisan system makes you insane, i'm left leaning but i wouldn't, for a split second, consider voting for a left candidate that would display such disregard for his citizens, facts or even basic logical thinking.
No there hasn’t.
Some Cities had protests.
Some cities had protests where tensions increased.
Some tensions manifested into real problems.
America is 300m people. The exposure that 2-20 block small city disturbances get is insane.
It would be like Scotland internalising issues in Marseille and claiming that Europe was under siege.
Way too dramatic.
You’ll watch the wealthy 1% take away the survivability of the working class, smile and wave.
But you can’t tolerate several cities in the nation protesting the recorded evidence of police killing citizens.
Take a bow.
Crazy when you think about everything Trump has done and how he still has so many supporters, Yes Biden is far from the ideal pick but he's fecking light years better than Trump.
Listening to a single Trump speech was enough to make me question if I was hallucinating and that was before he was elected, he's not got any better.
Reading his twitter, it's like a fecking toddler throwing a tantrum how the feck can any adult seriously vote for him? He's been begging for donations since the election to pay for legal fees.
Literally used the presidency to enrich himself. How he can host events at fecking Maro Lago surely that's a conflict of interest?
Just thinking back to things like Puerto Rico, his administration picks (Betsy fecking Devos), the amount of admin that are currently residing in prison or should be residing in prison.
How many people he has mocked, the disabled Reporter, John Mcain, gold star familys, veterans, hell he even called his supporters fecking stupid didn't he at one point?
His treatment of America's allies vs America's 'Enemies or rivals' He has treated North Korea with more respect than South Korea for feck sake.
Scary thought that a good portion of the UK electorate would probably vote for him.
Just think he's been normalised, dropped the bar so low that it actually seems normal now for presidents to all cap spam a dozen tweets in a rage on twitter, attacking everything and everyone when if I did that I'd be fecking fired and I'm just a tech.
He's a disgusting fecking human being, even if Biden wins all remaining states, he will not go down without an even bigger tantrum. Which will most certainly lead to violence. I'm shocked it hasn't already.
Listening to a single Trump speech was enough to make me question if I was hallucinating and that was before he was elected, he's not got any better.
Reading his twitter, it's like a fecking toddler throwing a tantrum how the feck can any adult seriously vote for him? He's been begging for donations since the election to pay for legal fees.
Literally used the presidency to enrich himself. How he can host events at fecking Maro Lago surely that's a conflict of interest?
Just thinking back to things like Puerto Rico, his administration picks (Betsy fecking Devos), the amount of admin that are currently residing in prison or should be residing in prison.
How many people he has mocked, the disabled Reporter, John Mcain, gold star familys, veterans, hell he even called his supporters fecking stupid didn't he at one point?
His treatment of America's allies vs America's 'Enemies or rivals' He has treated North Korea with more respect than South Korea for feck sake.
Scary thought that a good portion of the UK electorate would probably vote for him.
Just think he's been normalised, dropped the bar so low that it actually seems normal now for presidents to all cap spam a dozen tweets in a rage on twitter, attacking everything and everyone when if I did that I'd be fecking fired and I'm just a tech.
He's a disgusting fecking human being, even if Biden wins all remaining states, he will not go down without an even bigger tantrum. Which will most certainly lead to violence. I'm shocked it hasn't already.
Imagine taking issue with the "radical" left, while seemingly having no issue with the massive increase in literal far-right terrorists inspired by Trump's words.
Voting Trump is completely indefensible, and blaming the "radical" left for you doing so is pathetic.
Thats very true and the fact that he still gets so many votes is incredibly depressing and means two things
1) A sizable portion of his supporters are thick as shit and will believe any kind of bullshit he and/or conservative media feeds them
2) The ones that are not stupid are rotten bigots without a shred of compassion or human decency.
Even if Trump is gone, these people will still be there and whenever a new right wing demagogue shows up they will latch on to him. Trump is a fecking useless simpleton, imagine a Trump who is actually competent. Thats fecking scary
Well majority of Trump voters are much better at understanding those who support other party than people like you. Who in reality is bigot and closeminded when you take this in consideration?
Back to the new wars in ME which will result in deaths of thousands innocent people, more terrorist attacks because war create hate and new waves of refugees. And don't forget that Clinton's need new island and a guy with the jet. Go Bidden I guess or better said go people behind him.
Agreed on pretty much all counts. My question was more about how the question would be perceived. Most people don't think they live in an echo chamber, and many find the suggestion laughable. That's as true here as it is anywhere. So someone saying in one (left-leaning) echo chamber to someone from a different (right-leaning) echo chamber that they need to burst that bubble they're living in will be doubly hard to take seriously. If you know that's the case, then what's the point of making the statement, really?
Here's some empirical evidence that suggests Fox News is quite a bit further from the political centre in the US than CNN. There's about twice as much distance between Fox News and the centre as there is between CNN and CBS, which you (accurately) define as quite centrist.
And historically the majority of the population have described Fox News as much more conservative than the others are liberal. I'd argue for obvious reasons. So isn't it possible your idea of the political centre is more skewed than those you're discussing it with?
I can understand why people would vote Trump, at least when Biden is the alternative. I think they believe that Biden, and most other politicians, are just as bad basically. Which isn't a particularly outrageous belief. I cant really understand how anyone can find Boris Johnson or Trump or many others charismatic but they clearly do. Bluffers and bullshitters tend to be pretty successful relative to their ability in my experience.
Trump is blunt (or honest if your a bit slow), i guess that helps?
Trump is blunt (or honest if your a bit slow), i guess that helps?
Mate, it is outrageous.
Imagine being one of the people who thinks Fox News is just a bit too liberal.Agreed on pretty much all counts. My question was more about how the question would be perceived. Most people don't think they live in an echo chamber, and many find the suggestion laughable. That's as true here as it is anywhere. So someone saying in one (left-leaning) echo chamber to someone from a different (right-leaning) echo chamber that they need to burst that bubble they're living in will be doubly hard to take seriously. If you know that's the case, then what's the point of making the statement, really?
Here's some empirical evidence that suggests Fox News is quite a bit further from the political centre in the US than CNN. There's about twice as much distance between Fox News and the centre as there is between CNN and CBS, which you (accurately) define as quite centrist.
And historically the majority of the population have described Fox News as much more conservative than the others are liberal. I'd argue for obvious reasons. So isn't it possible your idea of the political centre is more skewed than those you're discussing it with?
Exactly - it's the argument of wilful ignorance. One is demonstrably worse than the other. Often it can be much less clear cut, and while I'm not a huge fan of Biden by any means, you'd struggle to name another US politician as bad as Trump.
Fixed that for you.
Fair point!
I really dont think it is. More because i think Biden is fecking awful than Trump isn't.
Fecking hell. I have 2.5k posts in this thread. I will be beyond delighted when it gets locked.
It'll just be repurposed when Trump gets locked up
It'll just be repurposed when Trump gets locked up
Nah, lock it up. Start fresh and wallow in his failure.It not just gunna become the Trump Post-Presidency? I can't wait personally
The sweet irony of this whole thing, considering how close it's going to be, and the massive advantage Biden is gaining from early and postal votes, is that if Trump hadn't spent months pushing the mail in fraud narrative, discouraging Republicans from mail in voting he'd probably have won hands down.
Who are the radical left politicians in America implementing these policies?
One last post in this beautiful thread.
There are a lot of these folks in & around Chicago especially in Indiana. They just have a different set of 'facts' that they base their world view on. Its parochialism and the fear of change basically.
The irony is that they associate themselves with term, 'Chicagoland' and yet hates everything what Chicago, the city that actually gives them relevance and identity stands for. Otherwise, without the 'Chicago' prefix, they are from some little irrelevant hick-town.
Those are interesting graphs - never seen that before. Thanks for digging them out.Here's some empirical evidence that suggests Fox News is quite a bit further from the political centre in the US than CNN. There's about twice as much distance between Fox News and the centre as there is between CNN and CBS, which you (accurately) define as quite centrist.
And historically the majority of the population have described Fox News as much more conservative than the others are liberal. I'd argue for obvious reasons. So isn't it possible your idea of the political centre is more skewed than those you're discussing it with?
Oh you'll be back when we have a thread "Live from Mar-a-Lago, it's the GREATEST DONALD TRUMP show!"
He'll have Jack Posobiec as his sidekick, not intentionally filling the Salacious Crumb role.
I don't know, you know, I don't know but a lot of people say, and the smartest people, some of the smartest, you know, I'm pretty smart myself, maybe the smartest, I don't know, but they say, with the winter, maybe the warmest winter, but with the winter, a lot of people say, the cold, you know, winter, so cold, but not that cold, maybe global warming is a good thing, you know, we could do with warmer winters, right, but that the cold will kill this Presidency, like a miracle, it will be like, it will disappear.
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