Time for this again, I suppose (not saying it's about you, to be clear).
never seen it before
of course, there are people that just need a nudge to become facists
but i honestly think, most people wont
The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated
- Thread starter Raoul
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never seen it before
of course, there are people that just need a nudge to become facists
but i honestly think, most people wont
Neither of those were fine presidents.
That is not what happened. Don't bother so much posting some english source about the whole affair. I'm brazilian myself and know very well everything relevant that has happened in the country in the past 20 years or so. The crimes Lula was convicted of were not made up things. His party implemented one of the largest corruption schemes in the history of anywhere to keep funding their election campaigns. He did not enrich significantly on a personal level, but small favors were done to him. But mainly don't sanctify a man who is far from it. Lula would gladly ride the corruption machine and see his opposition never win an election again if it were left up to him.
None of this makes Bolsonaro anything close to justifiable, anything other than a corrupt and despicable wannabe authoritarian. But it doesn't have to be just Bolsonaro x Lula.
Also this is now the global politics thread.
People saying outrageous things on the internet and then trying to frame themself as some sort of victim of intolerance is a fascinating phenomenon. Shouldn't they be happy, I mean, you'd think the goal of hate speech is getting people to dislike you, not engage you in an intellectual debate about the reason God hates fags or brown people or paying taxes, or whatever nutjob talking points people think of.
what "outrageous things"?
Germany is still an occupied zone and not a sovereign country.
That Polish dude that compares the gay rights movement to Stalinist Russia.
You know, rightwing nutjob outrageous things.
I am portuguese so I read the original sources. Everyone agreed that on any western judicial system Lula would've been able to be a candidate and wouldn't have been imprisoned. You're brazilian, so you know full well the right and Moro circumvented the law to stop him from being a candidate. We've all seen the whatsapp conversations. None of that would've happened in any fair legal system.
So to the original point of my post. Who is more to blame that Bolsonaro and not Lula is president? The left because the mock tight wingers of a corrupt judicial system?
Hmm, was a different thread I guess. It's to do with Poland having LGBT free zones. Ask @Sarnii see
how can someone compare the gay rights movement with Stalinist Russia?
But nobody here is mocking right wingers or conservatives. People are mocking parrots of right wing propaganda that have the nerve to keep repeating "do your research".
Well someone here said "Right wingers are fecking idiots!"
The most liberalist people I know are people who have escaped from communist regimes. You can also be a classical right winger or a conservative and be completely against Trump.
The fecking idiots mostly applies to alt-right wingers or whatever Trump/Bolsonaro/Orban/Baudet supporters are.
OK, I mean in any conversation where someone uses the word "nobody" someone will come with an exception. And normally those type of exclamations come in a response to a tweet with something lunatic.
Do you think the caf in general mocks right wing people and that in turn makes them more extremist? That seemed to be the suggestion of the post I replied to originally.
as i see it, some leftists are mocking people that think 90 percent similar to them and the tiniest dissent is ground for e-lynching
he says it better than me
It really depends on how you define right wing in the first place. But yes people who are deemed right wing in here are frequently mocked. I don't necessarily think it makes them more extreme unless Redcafe of all places shapes their political belief. Here in Denmark I'm quite happy with Social Democracy. If I lived in a country with a totalitarian goverment or religious theocracy, I would be a fanatical liberalist.
In the post I first responded to you said "the left has stopped explaining why and started mocking the ones who ask questions".
If you've said "some leftists are mocking people" I wouldn't have said a word.
OK, I must've missed that mockery then. Sure there are jokes but here there are jokes about everything. Marcos suggested the left just mocks and doesn't engage. Normally I see the mockery towards people who seem to be a bit nuts and pretend to be centrists when they're clearly not, honest right wingers might get some jokes thrown their way but people engage with them here (and in general I think) all the time.
yes, i said "the left" when i should have say "some leftists", my bad
but those "some" are very vocal
Fair enough.
As an aside, I don't think they're more vocal per se, I just think they're more "copy-pasted" by those on the opposite side in an attempt to somehow frame an entire group an being this or that.
Mocking people gets a bad rep. Nothing wrong with it. I call my right wing friends cheap cnuts for wanting lower taxes and they call me a commie bastard. All in good fun.
well, maybe antifa, cancel culture, doxxing -for the most stupid thing- are an exaggeration, but the youtube videos are there and are pretty compelling
shut up commie
mate, i'm not an economics leftie, i like low taxation and i like independent business to thrive
but, i am pro abortion, pro gay rights, against weapons rights, and against racism
who would i have voted in 2016? Hillary, because i think the latter rights are much more important and were more at stake than the former
still, my way of thinking is grounds for bitter arguments with my leftie twin brother who sees "facists" everywere
I think there's nutters on both sides really. If you go far enough in any direction, you're bound to fall of a cliff at some point. I frequent both a far right and far left Dutch website, where both sets of users think Im the enemy.
exactly
that`s so crazy! i don´t frequent far right websites, i really don't know one,in fact, the more to the right i watch is some fox pundits
and i don't engage with far right people because i don't care much for what they have to say, there's a basic disagreement with them that makes it a waste of time to listen or talk to
You are though. You, personally. When they both simultaneously vanquish, the world will be... Well, it will be.
Let's wait until the next elections before making such a smug claim.
Pathetic strawman which does nothing to refute my claim that Bolsonaro is an evil homophobic piece of shit.
Any major political party has great responsibility, especially those in power. Why are you implying that only the left does, or focusing on the left when they are not even in power in the US or Brasil? Why do you take issue with me calling Bolsonaro what he has irrefutably demonstrated to be? Also, is Bolsonaro really a hill you want to die on? Why?
I think that's very true. I can't speak for all countries, of course (I know very little about Brazil, for example), but where I can see it, the left doesn 't really talk to 'the people' anymore. Too academic, too nuanced, too much focused on items that don't get most people going. Slogans might be silly and simplistic, but most people don't read political platforms. I think it's easy to see why right-wing populists in many places are having a relatively easy ride, or why Trump was and is more attractive than someone as insane and inane as him should really be able to be.
It's true, I'm the secret cabal running the world from behind the scenes.
Not sure how you're reaching these conclusion. Marcos is saying pretty much the opposite of all you have implied and seem to understand here...
By reading his words. He's been pretty consistent with his posts.
why, would the people on the right vote for Biden?
i wasnt trying to refute that, i was saying that even though he is all that, he still won, despite Lula and Dilma being good presidents.
i'm not implying that only the left is doing that, i dont know if the right is doing that, i dont care what the right is doing i care that the left is losing and i think one of the reasons is that they stoped answering questions and started acting like they know it all
exactly, acting that way is hard to reach the people that have real problems today
No, I don't think everyone agrees on that. He conviction was also upheld in higher courts, it wasn't just up to Moro. In other western judicial systems he would have potentially been removed from office and faced charges back in 2005 due to the mensalão scandal.
To your second point, like I said it can't be that "oh, we have fecking Bolsonaro and that is just because we couldn't have Lula be president for a 3rd time" (which some other countries don't even allow to happen). It's fecked that we have Bolsonaro, but Lula is not the only antidote, and his not running is not the only reason.
i understand that Lula wasnt all clean, but as far as i know he guided brazil very well
i wont pretend to know more than you about him, but as i remember he made brazil great again
runs for cover
Put it this way (and to bring it back on topic): you know how Trump boasts about the good economic numbers he's seen, with low unemployment and ok GDP growth? And there was that other 2 term President before him that inherited one of the most perilous situations in several decades, managed through it and set-up the economy for a period of good growth? Well, there was a 2 term President in Brazil before Lula...
I suppose we read different things then.
ok, I understand
you should know that the news in argentina said something different, many journalists were in love with him and with Dilma, of course, i take your word
Where the feck has the Trump thread gone?
The last 7 pages or so need to be moved, or deleted.
The last 7 pages or so need to be moved, or deleted.
Yup, definitely. And leave the childishness for General threads.
My morning routine involved scrolling through this thread during my morning dump. I looked forward to it, not anymore.
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