The simple truth is so obvious and easy to point out but it‘s still not simple enough to break through the wall of stubborn ignorance. It reminds me of people demanding balanced reporting as opposed to truthful reporting.
The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated
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That's some bullI know you were trying to be ridiculous but this is 2020 afterall. Your imagination will always fall short of reality. We have had MPs claim it.
https://thelogicalindian.com/amp/fact-check/cow-urine-covid-19-20204
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.sc...-bath-to-fight-covid-19-bacteria-in-karnataka
https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.time...in-air-claims-vc/amp_articleshow/77225183.cms
Is this for real? I've had a look for white text and failed.
There are not two sides to facts and science. We don't need to hear equally from the person that has the intelligence, training and actually studied a drug and also from Donald Trump. The media's inability to understand this is reason we're such a mess right now. To paraphrase: if someone looks out of the window and says it's raining, and someone else looks outside and says it's sunny, the media's job is not to report what each party said, it's to go outside and f*cking tell us if it's raining.
Lots of medicines have potential side effects, don't see anyone not taking them. I know someone who's taking it and says he's completely fine.
Why is it suddenly so hazardous? It's been used for years and hasn't killed anyone as far as I know. How can medicine really hazardous be available and regularly prescribed.
At this point, we don't even know how effective it is or isn't against Covid. Pretty sure anyone would choose side effects over death. It costing lives is a narrative that just doesn't make sense.
Troll
These tests take an eternity. In the meantime people are dying. These aren't random mechanics at your local pannalbeaters saying it works, it's actually doctors.
Doctors take an oath which says; firstly, do no harm. A doctor is not allowed to say, meh, take this stuff, maybe it helps. That's not how medicine works.
And even a medicine that is perscriver for certain issues (like malaria) can be hazatdous in other instances and when used in combination with other perscribtions. Dying from a cocktail of perscribtion drugs due to a lack of awareness how they interact is very common.
Because a new variable has entered the frame, one which is already attacking your body and causing a bunch of very serious side effects?
To simplify it massively:
If a drug increased your heart rate by 60bpm, you might be able to handle that normally and it may be effective at fighting the illness.
If you then used that drug to fight an illness which already took your bpm up to 180bpm, you’d be fecking crazy to take a drug which adds another 60bpm on top of that regardless of whether it is effective at curing it or treating other side effects.
Anecdotal evidence isn't really going to work when you have decades of data showing that the drug can be potentially fatal. The people who use it for their existing ailments all undergo rigorous exams to make sure they're not in the subset of the population that could have potentially fatal consequences. Doctors don't prescribe it to just anyone willy nilly.
And that's enough evidence to send it out to the masses?
How about this: we let the international agencies and experienced infectious disease experts make the call on this one?
Theres also an issue of dosages. The amount you might be given for malaria, and then amounts they need to use to try and treat Covid are substantially different. If someone suggesting taking 10 asperin at once to ward off a disease, would that seem automatically safe because you've taken 1 plenty of times with no issues?
Apparantly Stella Immanuel, one of the "doctors" promoting the drug again also believes that you can become sick by having sex with demons in your sleep.
Where the feck did she go to medical school.
Where the feck did she go to medical school.
Nigeria. I posted a link the prior page that lays out all her nonsense. That charade was paid for by a Tea Party Patriots group.
Dr. Stella Immanuel said it and trump agrees. Do you agree with Dr. Immanuel?
Wait.... has reality just become Groundhog Day? I mean, it is not totally crazy seeing as how each month in 2020 has pulled a "Hold my beer" on its precursors.
Dumb yankees, they're using bicycles wrong. You sit on them to increase speed. They're not riot shields. They will shield you from feck all.
Exactly, so why would a bunch of doctors prescribe something dangerous? They are actually treating people this way and no one has died. This cocktail you speak of hasn't killed or harmed anyone. Pretty sure they could be jailed if this killed someone, why would they take the risk?
The act that you don't understand how ridiculous this speculation is. As if any medical practitioner would appear on international media promoting a combination of drugs that can kill you. For what reason?
4 million prescriptions in 2017 let me know that those people are in the minority. Not just that, pretty sure doctors know who they are. What sort of rigorous examination takes place at a GP's office? This is a drug given to people as a precautionary measure to people. So you're telling me that doctors are give healthy people something that can kill them? Really?
There's no evidence not to. People are dying and we are hanging around hoping for the best? That sounds logical to you?
All they've come up with is wash your hands, if that doesn't work, tough luck.
Who's doing that? Do you guys think doctors are stupid or something?
Africans have strange beliefs regardless of occupation/qualification. Religious/cultural beliefs are all baseless regardless of where you come from. Btw, why the focus on her so much? She's not the only one making these claims.
She's not the only one making these claims so again, I dont understand the focus on her. I don't know if it does work or not, what I do know is doing nothing certainly doesn't work. The consequences of her and the other doctors being wrong aren't all that grave, if they are right, lives would be saved.
I'm starting to think you might actually be Wayne Rooney.
Harsh on Wazza imo, always seemed a pretty solid lad.
Nope, it's not the doctors who I think may be stupid.
Because even doctors are people and some people are stupid / frauds. They say they are treating people, but provide no statistical data or proof that they have done trials explaining their methods? Why is that? I've given the medicine to 20 people, and they all died. Don't believe me? Well, I put it on Twitter, so it must be true.
It's not how medicine works. It's not opinion, it's not politics, it's science. If they can prove that it works, back it up with data, like the people that say it is potentially harmful do. I'm talking about cocktails of seperately harmless drugs that, when taken together, are harmful or fatal. Which is a counter point to your claim that the drug must be safe since some people are treated with it. You don't take drugs in a vacuum (I think, I'm not sure what happens in the ISS), someone's condition and other medication plays a very big part in what happens. That's why, even when using something normally harmless is researched exstensively when being used with different types of medicine. This research takes time, of course, and some people will die, but medicine has developed this far by adhering to strict scientific methods.
Morons like Trump try to discredit science when results don't suit them and people, being the stupid / frauds they are, fall for it. It's like he's trying to prove Darwin wrong by making humankind devolve.
I have to say, if I were a pro Trump person I would definitely post on the caf, the amount of response you get is amazing
The wife and I did our PhD work in infectious disease. We have friends and colleagues who have MD's and PhD's in a variety of fields. Of course those degrees are no quite on par with your thoughts and feelings, but we all think these rehashed talking points are dangerous and garbage. It's kinda fitting you named yourself after someone who looks like a cartoon troll.
Yes I know Shrek was an Ogre but if RooneyLegend can make up shit so can I
If the FDA and the medical community at large are all saying the same thing then a handful of doctors, and a bunch of folk on Twitter who think Googling the word "hydrochglodhoshuine" for an hour saying otherwise isn't enough for anyone to starting thinking "we should give it a go anyway".
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What are you even on about? I tried to make sense of your logic but all I achieved was a headache. Too bad I can't just prescribe myself an arbitrary drug for that.
Whilst there is no known treatment for a logic-induced headache, there is a readily available vaccine in order to prevent future infection. I've tried it and it works an absolute treat.
Now you're just straight up lying.
So why promote and recommend it then? Surely that is, at best, irresponsible and at worst, malicious, because it could cause harm?
Can guarantee you they don't tech that in Nigerian medical schools. She is a loon.
So there's a bunch of teams from all over the world who have seriously tested hydroxychloroquine's efficacy. These are actual experts conducting scientifically rigorous tests and publishing their results to be analysed, challenged and critiqued. The majority and best reviewed of these seem to suggest it doesn't work and some go so far as to suggest it may cause harm. The question isn't "why are others focusing on this one woman?", it's "why are you not focusing on the preponderance of the scientific evidence on the subject?".
Like, why do you think they conducted these studies? Like you they hoped it could work. They thought it might work. They tested to see if it would. They found that it didn't. They found it might have adverse side effects. They concluded it wasn't useful in treating Covid19. They concluded it might be detrimental. They therefore stopped prescribing it. Which part of that process do you seek to question? If you put yourself in their shoes, conduct the same tests and produce the same outcomes what decision would you make that they did not?
These people aren't responsible for Trump making declarative statements about drugs that have yet to be fully tested. A group of doctors working out of Dusseldorf trying to see if a particular drug will help their fellow countrymen are not going to undermine their own integrity and chance of medical success just to upset some bloke half a world away. They're gonna want to save some lives.
I heard that taking a drug that greatly increases your heart rate is perfect for something completely unrelated to Covid-19 (the virus that puts you at risk of blood clots and heart attacks and all that but whatever). Why don't we at least TRY it with Covid patients and see what happens? It's not like there's a risk in TRYING it.
But, wait! Let's also try Tiger Balm on Covid patients too. I've heard that someone carried out a study and it helped people suffering from muscle pain so what's the difference between pain in your muscles and being unable to breathe? It's pretty much all related to muscles. So let's give it a go, yeah?
But WAIT!!! Why aren't we using those paddle things to help Covid patients?! Patient stops breathing and their heart stops - what do you normally see doctors do? That's right, they use the paddle things and it brings them back to life! So let's just go about preemptively paddling folk until they're no longer in danger. Worst case scenario is that they stop breathing and their hearts stop, so at that point you just paddle thingy them again and they come back to life! Rinse and repeat.
Buuuuuuttt Waaaiiiittt! Let's just shoot ourselves in the fecking heads and then the virus doesn't stand a chance. The science isn't clear on whether or not that's a viable option but since I said it five seconds ago the suppose "Medical Community" has had more than enough time to carry out trails to prove my theory wrong, and they haven't been able to. So let's just TRY....
*snort*
But, wait! Let's also try Tiger Balm on Covid patients too. I've heard that someone carried out a study and it helped people suffering from muscle pain so what's the difference between pain in your muscles and being unable to breathe? It's pretty much all related to muscles. So let's give it a go, yeah?
But WAIT!!! Why aren't we using those paddle things to help Covid patients?! Patient stops breathing and their heart stops - what do you normally see doctors do? That's right, they use the paddle things and it brings them back to life! So let's just go about preemptively paddling folk until they're no longer in danger. Worst case scenario is that they stop breathing and their hearts stop, so at that point you just paddle thingy them again and they come back to life! Rinse and repeat.
Buuuuuuttt Waaaiiiittt! Let's just shoot ourselves in the fecking heads and then the virus doesn't stand a chance. The science isn't clear on whether or not that's a viable option but since I said it five seconds ago the suppose "Medical Community" has had more than enough time to carry out trails to prove my theory wrong, and they haven't been able to. So let's just TRY....
*snort*
A doctor’s opinion on an efficacy of a drug means very little. A thousand doctor’s opinion on the efficacy of drug means very little. You need data, and lots of it. Doctors, like all people are host to an abundance of cognitive biases and medical science is overwhelmingly complex. Why do you think sham surgery has gone on for decades? The best surgeons performing surgery on people at huge risk to the patient for no actual benefit?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sham_surgery
Because this is hard, well beyond the judgement of individuals, especially if the only evidence is anecdotal.
You need rigorous, well controlled studies and plenty of analysis to come to conclusions on drug safety and efficacy. There may be data sets that contradict each other so this needs to be worked out, but if they’re done well each study will reveal a little more of the truth, and you need to weigh the evidence to come to the most accurate (but not perfect) conclusion possible at that time.This means that conclusions may change over time as new data comes to light. It also means that no one individual has the definitive answer, that can only be found within the data. The main issue people seem to have in regards to science, specifically medical science is a lack of understanding of the sheer complexity and uncertainty inherent with everything. Beware anyone seemingly certain regarding an aspect of medical science with scarce data supporting their view, they’re likely to be selling snake oil.
You’re going to be potentially giving a drug to millions of people. Surely you want very strong evidence and a consensus that it works and that it is safe?
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Why did they abduct that person anyway? And which agency was it? That guy in the orange shirt and tan shorts looked like a passerby at 1st, apart from the hairstyle.
You see those bicycle cops ploughing in to protect the 'abductors'? Just in case you didn't know where the NYPD stood on this, you do now.
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Janke ..(sp?) you're the ones that started with the whole yankees thing - at least that's what I heard at a talk on history at colonial Williamsburg.
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For all I know they could be undercover cops arresting someone.
Based on your post and what I saw on Facebook today, it looks like the rightwing media of "Frontline Doctors" has been doing the rounds.
The focus on Immanuel is because she is a complete nutjob that believes in things like demon sex in dreams that causes medical conditions and that vaccines contain alien DNA ffs. if that is the kind of person Trump and his team trust, then that team itself is untrustworthy and unqualified to be handling the pandemic.
Now for the bold, you have to understand that people being prescribed a somewhat experimental drug like hydrocholoroquine after extensive testing for very specific conditions is vastly different than propagating the notion that its an effective treatment for a virus pandemic that just emerged in the last year. No clinical trials show efficacy in treating COVID. It's not a viable treatment at this point.
And I say this as someone with a loved who has been prescribed hydrocholorquine for years. It's not a prescription handed out by a GP just because, its a prescription given to patients with very specific conditions after a bevy of medical examinations and tests.
Sure it could, but this looks very similar to Portland.
Anyone watching the antitrust hearings? seems pretty performative so far.
The question for @RooneyLegend is: where do you get your information that hydroxychloroquine might do good? As @Ekkie Thump pointed out, any actual research from the last few months has found that it does nothing to almost nothing against COVID-19 and has the potential to cause dangerous side effects. So what makes you think it needs further attention? (For the record, there are now various existing medicine that have been scientifically found to help (like remdesvir), and hydroxychloroquine isn't one of them.)
This is rather for the COVID-19 thread, but you really need to follow the research better if you want to start discussing this. If you're just repeating talking points from social media, tv, or politicians, you effectively have no idea about the subject and should just follow public health guidelines. (Which also go a lot further than 'wash your hands'. Yes, guidelines change, but that reflects changing knowledge and circumstances. It's their job to follow the science and update their guidelines accordingly, so again, you're best off following them.)
This is rather for the COVID-19 thread, but you really need to follow the research better if you want to start discussing this. If you're just repeating talking points from social media, tv, or politicians, you effectively have no idea about the subject and should just follow public health guidelines. (Which also go a lot further than 'wash your hands'. Yes, guidelines change, but that reflects changing knowledge and circumstances. It's their job to follow the science and update their guidelines accordingly, so again, you're best off following them.)
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