The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

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oneniltothearsenal said:
And yet again people on social media are rambling about some completely irrelevant distraction of Trump's choice (Mt Rushmore) rather than advancing the public discourse on things like Iran or the border details.

People in media should ask themselves if maybe they are not responding exactly how Trump wants them to respond. If people were smart they would just ignore all these silly twitter blasts
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And there lies the crux of the problem.

If people were smart they wouldn’t vote against their interests out of pure partisan spite.
 
At 6:30 its really crucial to the how the tactics are used in media

"Are you for or against tax relief?"

As Lakoff points out it doesn't matter how you answer because you have already adopted their underlying cognitive frame which has the subtle coding that "taxation is an affliction" that you need "relief" from. This operates on a subconscious level of your brain's neural networks.
 
Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
There's a Ted Talk on this about how companies that appeal to your lizard brain do better than those that appeal to your logical reasoning.
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Yup same principle.

Also related, I still don't know why that guy named his progressive network "The Young Turks". One of the worst, most idiotic, completely ignorant names I have ever seen.
 
Ady87 said:
Why/how are 9 out of 10 Trump supporters on Twitter female? (Or, so it feels)
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Do their usernames sound something like ‘WOMEN 4 TRUMP’ or ‘WINGS OF FREEDOM’ and is spammed with a ton of Stars and Stripes emojis? They’re mostly bots mate.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
And yet again people on social media are rambling about some completely irrelevant distraction of Trump's choice (Mt Rushmore) rather than advancing the public discourse on things like Iran or the border details.

People in media should ask themselves if maybe they are not responding exactly how Trump wants them to respond. If people were smart they would just ignore all these silly twitter blasts
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Well here you are. Get your teeth into that!

 
oneniltothearsenal said:
Yup same principle.

Also related, I still don't know why that guy named his progressive network "The Young Turks". One of the worst, most idiotic, completely ignorant names I have ever seen.
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Firstly because Cenk is Turkish and was born in Istanbul. Secondly because Young Turks is a historical name associated with people who wish to fight to change the political stance of their country. It goes back to the early 20th century and the days of the Ottoman Empire.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Turks


So it's actually a very apt name.
 
langster said:






Waaaaaaaaaaaaah!
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It’s funny that still, somehow, there’s an equivalence between being apalled by him and disrespecting the country and the flag (whatever that means).
 
r/the_donald looks like this right now :eek:

j8rv1nk2kq631.png
 
langster said:
Firstly because Cenk is Turkish and was born in Istanbul. Secondly because Young Turks is a historical name associated with people who wish to fight to change the political stance of their country. It goes back to the early 20th century and the days of the Ottoman Empire.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Turks

So it's actually a very apt name.
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I don't find it apt at all. Neither did the Armenian girl I dated.

It was extremely stupid to name an American progressive organization "The Young Turks" in 2003 (or whatever the exact year was).

At first, the Armenians were hopeful that they would have an equal place in this new state, but they soon learned that what the nationalistic Young Turks wanted most of all was to “Turkify” the empire. According to this way of thinking, non-Turks – and especially Christian non-Turks – were a grave threat to the new state.
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https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-i/armenian-genocide

The Young Turks were the perpetrators of the Armenian Genocide. The Young Turk Movement emerged in reaction to the absolutist rule of Sultan Abdul-Hamid (Abdulhamit) II (1876-1909). With the 1878 suspension of the Ottoman Constitution, reform-minded Ottomans resorted to organizing overseas or underground. The backbone of the movement was formed by young military officers who were especially disturbed by the continuing decline of Ottoman power and attributed the crisis to the absence of an environment for change and progress. Working secretly in unconnected clusters under the watchful eye of the Hamidian secret police, the Young Turks succeeded in overturning the rule of the autocratic sultan when the Ottoman armies in European Turkey openly supported the movement. Abdul-Hamid's reinstatement of constitutional and parliamentary rule in July 1908 ushered in a brief period of legalized political activity by a panoply of reformist Turkish parties as well as Armenian political and revolutionary organizations. The Young Turks earned further public support when their intervention was required to suppress the April 1909 counter-revolution staged by the palace.

At the center of the Young Turk Revolution stood the Committee of Union and Progress (CUP) (Ittihad ve Terakki Jemiyeti) formed in 1895. Its members came to be known as Ittihadists or Unionists. The most ideologically committed party in the entire movement, the CUP espoused a form of Turkish nationalism which was xenophobic and exclusionary in its thinking. Its policies threatened to undo the tattered fabric of a multi-ethnic and multi-religious society. Taking advantage of the political confusion reigning in the aftermath of the First Balkan War which the Ottoman Empire lost in 1912 to its former subject states, the CUP seized power in a coup d'etat in January 1913. As it led the empire to a partial recovery in the Second Balkan War, the CUP monopolized political power domestically by bringing the Parliament completely under its influence. It also began to steer away from the long-held Ottoman foreign policy of alliances with Great Britain and France, and forged a stronger military cooperation with Germany. Moreover, the CUP compensated for the Ottoman retreat in the Balkans by promoting Pan-Turkism, an expansionist program designed to challenge Russia in its southern tier. By the time World War I broke out in August 1914, the CUP constituted a chauvinistic band which had subordinated the Ottoman state to its Turkist ideology. It also propelled the country into war against its better interests by entering into a secret accord with Germany.

To consolidate Turkish rule in the remaining territories of the Ottoman Empire and to expand the state into the so-called Turanian lands in the east, most held by Iran and Russia, the CUP devised in secret a program for the extermination of the Armenian population.
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https://www.armenian-genocide.org/young_turks.html


Cenk wrote a paper in college in 1991 iirc where he denied the Armenian genocide. The guy is literally the opposite of who should be leading the progressive movement. I used to think he was a joke and a conservative trying to make us long time progressives look bad but his group has stuck around so I guess he has to be confronted head on about this. There are tons of better representatives of American progressivism

Every open-minded person who has looked at the evidence agrees that this genocide happened—except for Turks. (To start reading about the evidence, go here, here, here, here, here, or look at the references in the Wikipedia article.) The notion that their country could commit such unspeakable crimes is completely unpalatable to them, and many (but not all!) Turks simply deny that the genocide happened. I’ve encountered this denial several times when visiting Turkey, and believe me, you don’t want to talk about the issue if you don’t know whom you’re talking to. The attitude of many Turks is the equivalent of those who deny the Nazi Holocaust despite insuperable evidence.

Curiously, one of the Armenian Genocide deniers has been Cenk Uygur. It may be relevant that he was born in Turkey, though his family moved to America when he was young. In 1991, while at the University of Pennsylvania, Uygur wrote an article for The Daily Pennsylvanian (the student newspaper) called “Historical Fact or Falsehood“, which is straight-out genocide denialism, imputing false claims of genocide to Armenian demands for land and money
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https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpres...-doesnt-know-enough-about-it-to-say-anything/
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
I don't find it apt at all.


Cenk wrote a paper in college in 1991 iirc where he denied the Armenian genocide. The guy is literally the opposite of who should be leading the progressive movement. I used to think he was a joke and a conservative trying to make us long time progressives look bad but his group has stuck around so I guess he has to be confronted head on about this.l
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I guess you better take it up with him then. Www.tyt.com might be a better place to air your grievances.
 
langster said:
I guess you better take it up with him then. Www.tyt.com might be a better place to air your grievances.
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I only brought it up here because it really illustrates failing Lakoff's lesson on framing. When you read things like Moral Politics or watch that video I posted I think its easy to see why that was such a strategic blunder - because in a decent chunk of academia and other communities the name "The Young Turks" instantly invokes a very negative frame (perpetrators of a genocide) that precedes any statements coming from that group. It undermines their entire statement of purpose.
It's a colossal branding failure that perfectly illustrates bad framing and then the sunken cost fallacy because he fails to admit he was wrong and should have renamed his group over a decade ago.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
I only brought it up here because it really illustrates failing Lakoff's lesson on framing. When you read things like Moral Politics or watch that video I posted I think its easy to see why that was such a strategic blunder - because in a decent chunk of academia and other communities the name "The Young Turks" instantly invokes a very negative frame (perpetrators of a genocide) that precedes any statements coming from that group. It undermines their entire statement of purpose.
It's a colossal branding failure that perfectly illustrates bad framing and then the sunken cost fallacy because he fails to admit he was wrong and should have renamed his group over a decade ago.
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I don't listen to them much but didn't he kindof apologise and say it was a reference to their movement against the sultan or something like that (sometime around 2015)
 
berbatrick said:
I don't listen to them much but didn't he kindof apologise and say it was a reference to their movement against the sultan or something like that (sometime around 2015)
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The third link I provided covers that already.

Here was his statement (which took 25 years btw):
Cenk said:
My mistake at the time was confusing myself for a scholar of history, which I most certainly am not. I don’t want to make the same mistake again, so I am going to refrain from commenting on the topic of the Armenian Genocide, which I do not know nearly enough about. Thank you for being patient with me on this issue, though I might not have always merited it.
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And here is the reply:
Jerry Coyne said:
One might think that, after 25 years, it was finally time for Uygur to admit the existence of that genocide. Did he do that? Not that I can see. All he says is that he’s a “very different person,” doesn’t stand by his denialism of the past, and henceforth is going to shut up about the issue. After all, he was not a “scholar of history”. (If he used that excuse all the time, he couldn’t say anything about history.)

Well, imagine if he showed similar behavior with respect to the Nazi Holocaust and, after denying it for a quarter of a century, issued something like the statement above: “I am not a scholar of history and so can’t determine whether the Nazis killed six million Jews and another six million non-Jews. I do respect the pain of those who may have lost family members in this claimed Holocaust. But since I don’t know all the facts (and can’t be arsed to look them up), I’ll just refrain from mentioning the Holocaust again.”

This is reprehensible. In 25 years Uygur could have acquainted himself with the facts, for crying out loud! It’s not that they’re hard to find, and although a few denialists still exist—just as there are Holocaust denialists—the consensus of scholars and historians is that yes, the Armenians were exterminated en masse by the Turks.
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apologies the guy just really annoys me. I feel like he is trying to profit off progressives (or at least increase his own fame) more than he actually cares if that makes sense.
 
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If anyone is interested, go check out r/Watchredditdie. I never visited that sub before, but that looks like the place where the trumpites and their ilk go to complain about ‘free speech being censored’ :lol:
 
Carolina Red said:
What am I looking at here?
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Voat is a website which has free speech and was formed when reddit attacked free speech about 3 years ago (I don't remember the exact trigger).
Today, reddit's r/the_donald was put under quarantine. It is still operational but to go into it or any links within it, you have to go through a page which basically says that you are entering a shithole, proceed with caution. Also in many cases, such a quarantine has been a prelude to a ban. (The trigger for this apparently is not the few hundred or thousand times they have called for death or extermination of Muslims and others, but ironically because these Blue Lives champions called for the deaths of Oregon cops who were searching for the GOP lawmakers).

Anyway, the original, freedom-fortified residents of voat realised they will get a fresh wave of recruits in their censorship-free zone. And they realised that these newbies might be under such delusions as believing that Jews aren't lizards who run the world. What's worse, these incoming migrants fleeing reddit tyranny had now publicly expressed their annoyance that voat-natives talked about Jews in every post.

So this screenshot is a (upvoted) warning from a native telling them to keep their lack of anti-semitism on cucked reddit where it belongs, and read some theory, perhaps some peoples' Protocols, maybe an autobiographical Struggle, if they want to join the paradise of uncensored open debate.
 
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