The sheer irony of it
The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated
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The sheer irony of it
It is weird how accepting of this mess the workers are. Imagine French workers; they would probably storm the Élysée Palace.
Well, at least you get to feel superior about it, and thought it was important to let us know.
The guillotine would have been sharpened before 2019 was upon us
America could do with a revolution to be honest.
I don't feel superior about, I see it as a missed opportunity for all of us. I don't expect you to care about my personal disappointment, but if that's an accurate description how many people in my position feel, it seems a worthwhile thing to say to people who "crave differing opinion in here". I believe that to be true so I just wanted to mention, it doesn't feel like that to people who have a different (less intense) viewpoint. I'm irrelevant - no arguments there. Happy to be so, too.
On the shutdown, States where Federal employees reside can advance funds to keep them and their families from going under. It can be repaid once their wages are paid. Perhaps by installments.
When somebody can present a differing opinion and defend Trump with actual facts and not resort to posting lies, propaganda, hyperbole or using right wing news outlets to promote disingenuous and dangerous opinions and rhetoric. Or without resulting to insults and a holier than thou attitude, then I for one will be the first to listen and gladly and gratefully enter a sincere and serious debate with them. Until then though, not much else to do but laugh at the cnut, despair at the whole situation and discuss what we think (and hope) is going on behind the scenes.
This thread is crying out for a differing opinion but all we have had since day one is posts like the rubbish endless facepalms (cheers Rads!) Posted above that is followed by snarky comments and nothing else. The one time we had some serious back and forth and sensible discussion was when someone was pretending to be a Trump supporter. I think that says it all to be honest.
What also says it all is it's obvious people think and feel what Trump is doing is right but they don't have the balls to come out and say it or defend and own their opinion. Fair enough they don't want to be jumped on, but that's just cowardly tbh.
This thread is crying out for a differing opinion but all we have had since day one is posts like the rubbish endless facepalms (cheers Rads!) Posted above that is followed by snarky comments and nothing else. The one time we had some serious back and forth and sensible discussion was when someone was pretending to be a Trump supporter. I think that says it all to be honest.
What also says it all is it's obvious people think and feel what Trump is doing is right but they don't have the balls to come out and say it or defend and own their opinion. Fair enough they don't want to be jumped on, but that's just cowardly tbh.
problem with these right wing people is they demand a false equivalence.
That's like saying we need to give Hitler a fair hearing.
There is zero evidence Trump has the interests of the United States or anyone else at heart.
He is simply about covering up his crimes and his complete subordination to Putin.
Not understanding Mueller's statement is beyond stupid.
That's like saying we need to give Hitler a fair hearing.
There is zero evidence Trump has the interests of the United States or anyone else at heart.
He is simply about covering up his crimes and his complete subordination to Putin.
Not understanding Mueller's statement is beyond stupid.
I think it’s way more complicated than that.
I agree with Trump, and MAGA disciples that America needs a root and branch overhaul of its immigration system. It’s comfortably one of the most bewildering in the developed world. Aspects of it are nonsensical.
Thing is... most Democrats agree too.
But everyone stands either side of a line and shouts at how stupid the other team is.
Some simple facts on JUST the immigration issue. Let’s call it The Wall issue;
- America has too many undocumented people working in the country
- America has a porous border in SOME locations
- America is to The America’s as the UK is to Europe (ie It’s a Mythological ‘Promised Land’ for those in lower socioeconomic countries nearby)
This issue can be expanded into nuance and history and whatever. But simply, those things are mostly true. Politics can handle that problem.
But to win an Election easily you can scream “We need a Wall” far easier than you can describe those nuances.
Trump is right on Immigration. His attitude to people of colour is ghastly. But simply based on a math problem, he’s correct.
Democrats are right in the fact that policy should trump a physical barrier.
But those two teams... they’ve gotta please the fans. The fans don’t really care about scoring, they just don’t want to concede.
If people are honest with themselves, they know that America is broken in so many ways. They have an ass-backwards political system that simply doesn’t work anymore. It’s centrered around staying in power and empowering/rewarding acolytes rather than either side actually working for the population.
To your point (finally). I don’t think it’s so much that Trump fans don’t want to raise a hand, more a case of people that gravitate to a forum such as this (be it a football forum, whatever) have already gained a sense of perspective on America. Be it their country or not. The whole system is broken. Rotten to the core. If you’re backing either side with any level of conviction: You’re losing.
Republicans moan about undocumented workers and porous borders. If it's such a problem why do so many wealthy republicans hire undocumented labour to work on their gardens, tend to their farming operations, build their construction projects and raise their children?
To be fair to this thread, the highlighted is pretty much the perfect definition of Trump's presidency. He's an erratic half wit with the attention span of a small rodent who spews a constant barrage of unthinkably dumb, misspelled verbal excrement on Twitter. Are you honestly expecting people to constructively debate his viewpoints?
He's an immoral feckwit and deserves nothing but contempt. And everyone with half a brain, be it a right leaning, left leaning or centrist brain, should be able to see this. Different viewpoints are great and bring some life to a discussion, but if that differing opinion comes down t, you're a bunch of leftists who only believe your biased media, while the evidence of falls claims by Trump and co is so eath shatteringly overwhelming, what's the fecking point.
Trump is a cnut, his dad's a cnut, his kids are cnuts and everyone supporting him is a cnut. If it were up to me, I would have him run for a second term and disqualify everyone who votes for him a second time from ever reproducing. Now that would make America great again.
the solution to illegal immigrants is staring us in the face, but politicians on both sides are dishonest about the solution.
Why do people come here ? Excluding asylum seekers which is a completely different issue.
People come here because they know someone is willing to hire them.
The guilty party is those who hire them.
Americans do not want to do many of the jobs illegals do.
The solution is work permits and ensuring the job hire includes health care coverage.
The Trump 'solution' is not a solution. It is simple racism. pandering to his ever shrinking base. There is no Wall solution.
The Democrats don't want to talk about this very much because guess what, they too have rich donors who benefit from hiring illegal workers.
Why do people come here ? Excluding asylum seekers which is a completely different issue.
People come here because they know someone is willing to hire them.
The guilty party is those who hire them.
Americans do not want to do many of the jobs illegals do.
The solution is work permits and ensuring the job hire includes health care coverage.
The Trump 'solution' is not a solution. It is simple racism. pandering to his ever shrinking base. There is no Wall solution.
The Democrats don't want to talk about this very much because guess what, they too have rich donors who benefit from hiring illegal workers.
I'm a proud "lefty" who thinks Trump has almost certainly broken multiple laws, and very possibly is influenced by Putin in a significant way. You can find plenty of evidence of that if you care to look, rather than decide to do whatever it is you're doing now.That's what I mean about this place. A different view immediately leads to people deciding you're not part of the clique, so must be some kind of right wing idiot or wum or whatever it is. It's bizarre to me that people think that's a healthy atmosphere to exist in, especially on an issue you think is so important.
That's the only genuine reason why I asked why you actively contribute to that atmosphere - how do you benefit, and how do others? I can only see it as destructive. But presumably you have a more informed view from a different perspective.
Anyway, I'll leave you to it.
That's what I mean about this place. A different view immediately leads to people deciding you're not part of the clique, so must be some kind of right wing idiot or wum or whatever it is. It's bizarre to me that people think that's a healthy atmosphere to exist in, especially on an issue you think is so important.
Anyway, I'll leave you to it.
You don't get it do you?
You don't have any view.
He says, while quoting a post with two very clearly defined views. Sigh.
come on. You have to do better.
So you don't like my insulting Trump.
Go on then. articulate your ' different view ' or provide the evidence you allude to that disputes what most of us say about Trump's 'job performance'.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/19/us/politics/federal-workers-pawnshops-government-shutdown.html
Sad that real people suffering doesn't get highlighted, whilst Trump, Mitch and Nancy play politics over foreign trips and golf courses.
You really expect that from this thread? Anti-Trump posters here are as delusional as pro-Trump posters and won't bother looking past their own views. Somebody should rename this thread "Anti-Trump posters e-wank thread" and be done with this. Meaningful discussions on any topic in US politics is non existent.
Sad that real people suffering doesn't get highlighted, whilst Trump, Mitch and Nancy play politics over foreign trips and golf courses.
You really expect that from this thread? Anti-Trump posters here are as delusional as pro-Trump posters and won't bother looking past their own views. Somebody should rename this thread "Anti-Trump posters e-wank thread" and be done with this. Meaningful discussions on any topic in US politics is non existent.
Its ironic how the Republicans love to give lip service to economics but as soon as economic theory disagrees with their conservative world view they completely ignore it as if economics doesn't exist.
I was listening to an 'immigration expert' on the Doctor Drew Penski radio show last week. One caller finally called in asking very simply why, if the government doesn't want illegal immigrants coming into the USA, they don't simply punish the employers with heavy fines and jail time for repeated offenders. The immigration expert answered that there has never been a political will to punish the employers that hire illegal immigrants, just to punish the illegal immigrants themselves.
Firstly. Republicans do not understand Economic theory. They believe in bullshit Trickle down Economics they have been brainwashed with. Pure propaganda.
I have to say Corporate Democrats are guilty in giving credibility to what Republicans say without outright disputing their lies. Why? Because they get money from the same people.
It’s the one thing that should be able to get instant wholesale bipartisan support.
I wasn’t too keen on President Trump, but after hearing about the similarities between him and Dr. Martin Luther King I have to say I’ve warmed up to the guy.
You'd think, right?
to summarize. Your view is similar to the 'good people on both sides' spouted by Trump.
Not saying anyone who disagrees with calling Trump out for his gross misdeeds is not welcome to his view. But it needs to be articulated.
You are wrong saying Nancy is simply playing politics. Trump was offered 1.6 billion for border security in the bill that He agreed on before he changed his mind.
He has given no details on what this wall for which he wants 5.6 billion or whatever he wants.
The people and the nation suffering are 100% the fault of Trump and the Republicans.
Jesus it's got a bit toxic in here.
Sorry Pillow but I'm going to have to call you out here. Sure there is a little too much linking of Trump's Twitter for my liking but some posters do put effort into having meaningful discussions. Berbatrick, Red Dreams and Cheesy always offer thoughtful opinions supported by links and evidence and even if you find Eboue very anti-Trump he does support his opinions with links and research when someone challenges him politely.
What topic on US politics do you want a meaningful discussion about? I'll happily reply to any topic you want to discuss with probably a longer post than you are prepared to answer
Needs more Love Island - Winter Session I think
A bit of handbags that I did not expect.
and I wasnt even involved!
You realize there's literally another thread called "US Politics"?
What as Nancy got to do with anything?
Saying Putin stooge is different ways in every other post is not really "articulation".
Sorry Pillow but I'm going to have to call you out here. Sure there is a little too much linking of Trump's Twitter for my liking but some posters do put effort into having meaningful discussions. Berbatrick, Red Dreams and Cheesy always offer thoughtful opinions supported by links and evidence and even if you find Eboue very anti-Trump he does support his opinions with links and research when someone challenges him politely.
What topic on US politics do you want a meaningful discussion about? I'll happily reply to any topic you want to discuss with probably a longer post than you are prepared to answer
I've only seen you and berbatrick actually support with good points and I've never interacted with Cheese. Eboue's views are well known anyway. All I see in this thread is more on deriding Trump (deserved) rather than any actual discussion on underlying points.
Team Blue
Team Red
Pick. Then watch your country disappear into a parody of itself.
America doesn’t have meaningful discussions. On a forum, or in meat world.
This in of itself is fascinating. Gamifying partisanship, removing nuance and vilifying opposition is really what has us where we are. And who did that? In my opinion the politicians are a symptom, not the cause.
The US has allowed itself, through the deification of capitalism, to have policy dictated by companies, not voters. Voters didn't want that tax bill. Didn't want the repeal of the fairness doctrine. Don't want easing of environmental protections, gutting of consumer rights, funding reductions in education or even a damn wall.
The vast, vast majority of Americans really want the same thing: remove barriers to move up in the world. But the barriers are put there by the system and people that most benefit from them.
Fox news could run stories and frame coverage in an effort to help its viewers. But that's not how it can make the most money, and there's no protection for its customers to not be lied to.
America today is a ringing endorsement for not allowing unfettered capitalism, because it's all about greed, and greed doesn't lead to good societal outcomes.
Will anything change? Certainly not with someone like Trump in charge .
For once, i like how the Dems are behaving. They haven't to give up so it's all Trump's fault.
I was asking You articulate your argument.
Me calling Trump names is my rant.
But I address points.
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About this thread being simply'leftist'.
The reason it is so is because what Trump and the Republicans are doing is indefensible.
You are defined by what you do. Not by what you say.
To say MAGA does not make it so does it?
The reason it is so is because what Trump and the Republicans are doing is indefensible.
You are defined by what you do. Not by what you say.
To say MAGA does not make it so does it?
I took his post as a criticism of a two party system and I don't think what you're saying goes against that. When you only have two choices a lot of nuance gets lost. If your beliefs are strongly leaning towards one side, even if it's only in certain key aspects, you're basically at their mercy. At the same time when fighting for votes it's (almost) just as effective to smear your opponent as it is to win votes via actual policies.
It's part of the reason why personal attacks against H. Clinton and Obama seem to have been working so well for Trump, part of the reason why people might swallow a lot of things, when for whatever reason the other party is not an option.
For example in Germany Merkel has become an easy target, but unlike in the US riling up people against her is only half the job, you still have to convince those unhappy people why they should vote for your party and not one of the other opposition parties.
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Great thread here....
It's corruption like this that makes me sick. I've no doubt it went on long before Trump was in power and no doubt will long after, but it completely makes a mockery out of his disgusting immigration and wall rants.
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