The Spurs thread | 2016-2017 season | Serious thread - wummers/derailers will be threadbanned

Will Spurs finish in top 4 in the upcoming season?

  • Yes

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It's true, I remember thinking around mid October last season that with Chelsea and Pool having such bad starts to the season, top 4 should have been fine.
Yeah, last season, barring the FA Cup, + performances of Martial and the emergence of Rashford, I'd want to forget as soon as possible. How we shot ourselves in the foot and couldn't even make top 4 is beyond a joke.

It was literally like no one wanted it. We really fecked up in December, but yet, chance after chance of securing that top 4 spot, we still managed to stuff it up, whilst boring our fans to death. :mad:
 
Of course it was a panic buy. No one plans to buy Sissoko for 30million.


The Spuds will be restless unless he starts banging in the goals after Sissoko has made no secret that Arsenal were the club he wanted -

"Arsenal have always been the club of my heart"

(Jan 2015)

"Arsenal is one of the best European teams. To be watched by that sort of club, that proves that you are a quality player. It is good to know. I hope that I will have the chance, soon, to play for this club."

(June 2016)
 
When the first choice player, (Isco) falls through, you then move on to the second choice. That is not panic buying, it's what all clubs do.

Yes, that's why Spurs bid 16m for Sisokko on the deadline day and then proceeded to up their offer by nearly 14m later that night. Ofcourse everything was planned by SUPER GENIUS Levy.
 
... Your best DM/CM's are Dier and Mousa Dembele... your best CM's are Dembele and Alli... your best AM's are Alli and Eriksen
You're using first team players as your examples, though. While I agree with your overarching point, that they didn't strengthen their first XI, you can't use their starters as an example. For example, an injury to Dier would bring Wanyama in. An injury to Kane brings Janssen in, and an injury to Dembele brings Sissoko in.
 
That Sissoko deal is the first poor buy in a while to be fair. Honestly shocked they paid that much, i'd say 16m is too much if i'm honest.
30 million is not too much for what he is capable of, we've all seen how good he can be. it's up to Poch to get him producing those performances regularly. I think the end of the season is the time to judge whether it's a poor buy or not.
 
So you're saying that Isco deliberately set out to mess spurs about? Why the hell would he do that? Terms were agreed with him and his club, he went to all that trouble just to "play spurs nicely". What utter rubbish.

Not deliberately but end result was hilarious. Agree terms and back out in the last moment, you didn't have enough time to negotiate so panicked.

You can say whatever you want, this was classic case of panic buy.
 
30 million is not too much for what he is capable of, we've all seen how good he can be. it's up to Poch to get him producing those performances regularly. I think the end of the season is the time to judge whether it's a poor buy or not.

Honestly, I've followed his career from the Toulouse days. He's shit. He's got zero goal threat and has no end product. He does the occasional long dribble that makes everyone think he's not bad but his performances are just bad. I wouldn't even say he has potential either given that his game hasn't changed one bit since he left Toulouse. Sorry, but it's a dud buy. He is at least a bit different from the players you have as he will get the ball and move with it a bit. But he'll do nothing else and will frustrate the feck out of you guys. It's a bad signing. For that fee its a terrible signing.
 
30 million is not too much for what he is capable of, we've all seen how good he can be. it's up to Poch to get him producing those performances regularly. I think the end of the season is the time to judge whether it's a poor buy or not.

Whatever helps you sleep at night pal. If this was vice versa, you lot would laughing your heads off, but when you do it, "not actually such a bad deal; when you think about it."
 
30 million is not too much for what he is capable of , we've all seen how good he can be. it's up to Poch to get him producing those performances regularly. I think the end of the season is the time to judge whether it's a poor buy or not.

47 Million for Stones is too much but 30 Million for Sissoko is not?

Not true. Wenger has said the same and we know Arsenal have a shed load of cash if they want to spend it. Also, on what planet in the last 20 years did Man Utd have "not much cash to spend"? What Poch said is true, which of spurs players could be significantly upgraded without paying silly money way over the top of what the player is really worth? When players like Stones are bought for circa 50 million and isn't anywhere near as good as Alderweireld, Koscielny, Kompany etc it shows what clubs are up against to improve at a sensible cost.
 
Tottenham haven't added a single player this window who is better then the current players they have in that position... in fact, arguably, they haven't added anyone who is better then the best 2 players they have in that position (apart from Janssen, but that's because they literally have one striker in Harry Kane).

They needed to add bodies due to CL football and all that, but shouldn't they have been looking to add extra quality over what they already have?

True, but your mistake is to assume that this is necessarily a failing - as if the object of every transfer window is to shuffle about with the first XI and sign one or more players that you hope will improve it.

But actually, another legitimate strategy is to focus mainly or even exclusively on 1) improving the squad cover/competition options behind a first XI; and 2) creating more squad space for further academy/youth promotions.

This can be a legitimate approach if a manager thinks that his first XI is already pretty good and likely to get better simply through more coaching and experience. This seems to be Pochettino's main view of last season's first XI at Spurs (albeit he'll still go for an Isco-type signing if one becomes available at an affordable price). Who is to say that he's wrong without seeing this season unfolding a lot more than it has?
 
Honestly, I've followed his career from the Toulouse days. He's shit. He's got zero goal threat and has no end product. He does the occasional long dribble that makes everyone think he's not bad but his performances are just bad. I wouldn't even say he has potential either given that his game hasn't changed one bit since he left Toulouse. Sorry, but it's a dud buy. He is at least a bit different from the players you have as he will get the ball and move with it a bit. But he'll do nothing else and will frustrate the feck out of you guys. It's a bad signing. For that fee its a terrible signing.
So basically if he can be tenacious in ball recovery he's another Dembele, who many including myself, regarded as one of the best midfielders in the league last season.
 
So basically if he can be tenacious in ball recovery he's another Dembele, who many including myself, regarded as one of the best midfielders in the league last season.

Dembele is a much better passer on the ball and has far more intelligence than Sissoko. Sissoko just runs around a bit, passes badly and has a poor attitude. He's very one dimensional as you will discover very soon. Won't be surprised if he starts well though, I remember him looking a world beater in his debut for Newcastle.
 
Dembele is a much better passer on the ball and has far more intelligence than Sissoko. Sissoko just runs around a bit, passes badly and has a poor attitude. He's very one dimensional as you will discover very soon. Won't be surprised if he starts well though, I remember him looking a world beater in his debut for Newcastle.
Dembele is a pretty meh passer to be fair. Almost never passes forwards - He basically beats three guys runs upfield and then makes a five yard pass sideways. Used to be incredibly frustrating when we were looking for someone to replace what Modric used to give us from deep, but now with the water carrier role he plays for us linking the midfield/defense to the attack while also contributing a lot for us in winning the ball back he's a fantastic player under Poch.

Maybe you're right and Sissoko will be a dud, but if Sissoko can bring the same style of game that Dembele does then I'll be more than happy as we look a very weakened side without him (Dembele).
 
True, but your mistake is to assume that this is necessarily a failing - as if the object of every transfer window is to shuffle about with the first XI and sign one or more players that you hope will improve it.

But actually, another legitimate strategy is to focus mainly or even exclusively on 1) improving the squad cover/competition options behind a first XI; and 2) creating more squad space for further academy/youth promotions.

This can be a legitimate approach if a manager thinks that his first XI is already pretty good and likely to get better simply through more coaching and experience. This seems to be Pochettino's main view of last season's first XI at Spurs (albeit he'll still go for an Isco-type signing if one becomes available at an affordable price). Who is to say that he's wrong without seeing this season unfolding a lot more than it has?
You finished third last season and every other one of the teams surrounding you (apart from maybe Leicester) have noticeably strengthened their first XI.

Now, I agree that squad progression can certainly compensate for a lack of transfer activity (us in 06/07 being a prime example), but it's still asking an awful lot. I would have expected Spurs to really kick on this summer and try to build a team that can go and at least challenge for the title, but it doesn't look like that'll happen.
 
You finished third last season and every other one of the teams surrounding you (apart from maybe Leicester) have noticeably strengthened their first XI.

Now, I agree that squad progression can certainly compensate for a lack of transfer activity (us in 06/07 being a prime example), but it's still asking an awful lot. I would have expected Spurs to really kick on this summer and try to build a team that can go and at least challenge for the title, but it doesn't look like that'll happen.
I see where you're coming from, but other squads improving doesn't take away our top league defense, our young golden boot winner, or our young AM core who seem capable of putting up double digit goals and assists each.

The fact is those other squads had to improve the starting XI because what hey had clearly wasn't good enough. It's a slightly different situation for us.
 
I see where you're coming from, but other squads improving doesn't take away our top league defense, our young golden boot winner, or our young AM core who seem capable of putting up double digit goals and assists each.

The fact is those other squads had to improve the starting XI because what hey had clearly wasn't good enough. It's a slightly different situation for us.
Well, it's not different. You came third. Not first. Your squad was not good enough.
 
It was common knowledge all summer that Sissoko was available for £30m. Tottenham paying the full amount at the last minute, after having a bid of just over half that rejected, is a panic buy. Simple as. He's not very good either which makes it all the worse.
 
True, but your mistake is to assume that this is necessarily a failing - as if the object of every transfer window is to shuffle about with the first XI and sign one or more players that you hope will improve it.

But actually, another legitimate strategy is to focus mainly or even exclusively on 1) improving the squad cover/competition options behind a first XI; and 2) creating more squad space for further academy/youth promotions.

This can be a legitimate approach if a manager thinks that his first XI is already pretty good and likely to get better simply through more coaching and experience. This seems to be Pochettino's main view of last season's first XI at Spurs (albeit he'll still go for an Isco-type signing if one becomes available at an affordable price). Who is to say that he's wrong without seeing this season unfolding a lot more than it has?
Surprisingly Glaston I do agree with you. I just don't think the players you've brought in are that good, barring Janssen who I think is very good and if Kane doesn't sort his act out I can see Janssen taking his spot.
He's perfect for the prem and he's a good player as well.
Wanyama is pretty good but I'm not sure he's good enough for a team that wants to push for the league, that said he did well at Southampton and Celtic so we'll see.
The Sissoko one just boggles my mind though I just don't get it. Poch would've been better not bothering and then going for someone in January maybe. If he can get Sissoko consistently playing well then he's an even better manager than all the hype he gets already.
 
Dembele is a pretty meh passer to be fair. Almost never passes forwards - He basically beats three guys runs upfield and then makes a five yard pass sideways. Used to be incredibly frustrating when we were looking for someone to replace what Modric used to give us from deep, but now with the water carrier role he plays for us linking the midfield/defense to the attack while also contributing a lot for us in winning the ball back he's a fantastic player under Poch.

Maybe you're right and Sissoko will be a dud, but if Sissoko can bring the same style of game that Dembele does then I'll be more than happy as we look a very weakened side without him (Dembele).

Trust me he's a dud. I wouldn't want him in our reserve team let alone our first team. You should be looking for players that improve on Dembele not someone who's worse. There's a reason why Newcastle fans are delighted today.

N'koudou is a good signing though.
 
Surprisingly Glaston I do agree with you. I just don't think the players you've brought in are that good, barring Janssen who I think is very good and if Kane doesn't sort his act out I can see Janssen taking his spot.
He's perfect for the prem and he's a good player as well.
Wanyama is pretty good but I'm not sure he's good enough for a team that wants to push for the league, that said he did well at Southampton and Celtic so we'll see.
The Sissoko one just boggles my mind though I just don't get it. Poch would've been better not bothering and then going for someone in January maybe. If he can get Sissoko consistently playing well then he's an even better manager than all the hype he gets already.

Thing is, what is playing well for Sissoko? If it's his Euros level, then it still leaves a lot to be desired.
 
Thing is, what is playing well for Sissoko? If it's his Euros level, then it still leaves a lot to be desired.
From what I can remember from the Euros is he put a big graft in, was hard to deal with but ultimately his final shot/pass let him down. As far as him playing as well as I think he can then it's not particularly great to be honest. It's a signing I just don't understand.
 
From what I can remember from the Euros is he put a big graft in, was hard to deal with but ultimately his final shot/pass let him down. As far as him playing as well as I think he can then it's not particularly great to be honest. It's a signing I just don't understand.

I thought he was pretty rubbish, particularly in the final... where he just ran around a lot to the complete detriment of his team. He'd just keep picking up the ball, bombing forward, then either a) realise nobody else had kept up with him and lose the ball or b) try and give it to someone who kept up with him and lose the ball. He wasn't helping France build as many attacks as they should have done because he was completely out of sync with everyone else... as if he was taking part in a game of football that only he was playing in.

I know running around a lot is generally a favourable attribute, and it definitely looks good when you see someone do it... but there at least has to be a purpose behind it.
 
Thing is, what is playing well for Sissoko? If it's his Euros level, then it still leaves a lot to be desired.
Quite. I thought he was above average in the Euros, nothing more. By all accounts he was playing at a far lower level for Newcastle over the course of last season. He's 27, so he's unlikely to improve significantly. If it's a mental/ attitudinal problem, then maybe Poch can improve him but we'll see.

It's funny that some people, including Spurs fans on this forum, seemed to not believe that £30m is the bog standard fee nowadays for a player who is above average but nothing more in the current market, and seem to believe that fees such as those paid for Alli, Mahrez and Kante are still often possible. I wonder whether that view will now change with the £30m acquisition of Sissoko?
 
Well, it's not different. You came third. Not first. Your squad was not good enough.

I thought Spurs were one of the teams who used the least amount of players over the course of the season too. United were high up on the list due to their injuries but people like Leicester and Spurs were quite low. So not only a case of the squad but the First XI too not being good enough. If you want to seriously challenge for the title you need to sign big players who will go straight into the XI like City/United/Arsenal/Chelsea have done. Really can't see Spurs getting top 4 this year.
 
I thought Spurs were one of the teams who used the least amount of players over the course of the season too. United were high up on the list due to their injuries but people like Leicester and Spurs were quite low. So not only a case of the squad but the First XI too not being good enough. If you want to seriously challenge for the title you need to sign big players who will go straight into the XI like City/United/Arsenal/Chelsea have done. Really can't see Spurs getting top 4 this year.

Leicester City have already shown that this is not necessarily the case. Also, if Spurs were not challenging for the title last season, then nobody was apart from Leicester.
 
Leicester City have already shown that this is not necessarily the case. Also, if Spurs were not challenging for the title last season, then nobody was apart from Leicester.

Last season was an anomaly and I doubt it will happen again in the near future.
 
It was common knowledge all summer that Sissoko was available for £30m. Tottenham paying the full amount at the last minute, after having a bid of just over half that rejected, is a panic buy. Simple as. He's not very good either which makes it all the worse.

One thing to note is that, according to Tom Collomose of the London Evening Standard, the payments are in five instalments of £6m, but the deal is structured so that the full amount will be paid only if he stays for the duration of his five-year contract, which is not likely: http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...-mauricio-pochettino-wanted-the-a3334451.html
 
Last season was an anomaly and I doubt it will happen again in the near future.

Maybe, but then I'm told that United "under-performing" was an anomaly, likewise City "under-performing" and likewise Chelski "under-performing".

That's an awful lot of "anomalies" ....when do they cease to be anomalous? And when do they stop being a convenient throwaway excuse to disguise lack of real quality?
 
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Well, it's not different. You came third. Not first. Your squad was not good enough.
Perhaps, but we did use the youngest squad in the league and still put up some of the best metrics you could ask for. That has nothing to do with Chelsea/United/City doing poorly as it was purely based on our play versus 19 other teams. That's reason for optimism. Tied best defense + second best offense + all the shot metrics to show that it was not an anomaly. In fact it shows we could have scored more with some better luck.

As a Spurs fan what I'm hoping for is further development in he starting XI that we've got. I also don't expect it to be perfect and I expect more bumps in the road, but I don't think it's unrealistic to also expect some further gradual progression that we've been seeing.

I'm happy you said "squad" though as that's what we've been improving: "the squad". Adding in rotation options like Janssen, Wanyama, Sissoko that we didn't have last season to give our other players a better rest and then some options like Nkoudou who add a style of play that we didn't have before. I think we've accomplished the goal myself and many other Spurs fans expected to accomplish as improving on the starting XI would have proven to be incredibly difficult if not impossible with signings that some would herald as such immediately.
I thought Spurs were one of the teams who used the least amount of players over the course of the season too. United were high up on the list due to their injuries but people like Leicester and Spurs were quite low. So not only a case of the squad but the First XI too not being good enough. If you want to seriously challenge for the title you need to sign big players who will go straight into the XI like City/United/Arsenal/Chelsea have done. Really can't see Spurs getting top 4 this year.
The point myself and other Spurs fans are trying to make is that our squad is strong and it's made up of players that no one said, "oh that will make them immediately better" when they were signed. Even though that's what many have done whether immediately or over time.

No one heralded Dier as a first XI game changer, likewise Alli, did anyone think Alderweireld would put us all the way at the top of least goals allowed? It's fair to think that one of Wanyama, Janssen, Nkoudou, etc. might be more influential than initially expected. Especially as we see year after year, and not just for Spurs but for nearly every team, how the unheralded may make the greatest impact (Look at Bailly for United already, look at Kante last year) and the "big" transfers some say are statements of intent end up as duds.
 
One thing to note is that, according to Tom Collomose of the London Evening Standard, the payments are in five instalments of £6m, but the deal is structured so that the full amount will be paid only if he stays for the duration of his five-year contract, which is not likely: http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...-mauricio-pochettino-wanted-the-a3334451.html
I suspect all this means is that if he flops at Spurs and they decide to get rid, Newcastle will receive a hefty sell on fee and/ or the fee would be even lower than you might expect. In any case, Newcastle will receive a hefty wedge of money and Spurs will be relatively out of pocket.

Not that £30m is much money to Spurs or any other Premier league team anyway (nowadays).

Welcome to the wonderful world of splashing a standard £30m on average or slightly above average players by the way! :)
 
Maybe, but then I'm told that United "under-performing" was an anomaly, likewise City "under-performing" and likewise Chelski "under-performing".

That an awful lot of "anomalies" ....when do they cease to be anomalous? And when do they stop being a convenient throwaway excuse to disguise lack of real quality?
Last 4 prem years
City finished 4th 2nd 1st 2nd
Chelsea 10th 1st 3rd 3rd
Not really throwing anything away when it's blindingly obvious those clubs had more than on the field problems last year as that shows.
United have had their own problems with hiring the wrong mangers to complete the squad rebuild, it's true we need to earn our stripes again this year.
But you can look at the players and manager that have been brought in, winners of their own leagues as well as player of the season of their own leagues so on the right track.
We only just finished outside top 4 with a useless tool in charge so imagine last season's squad with 3 top top players world class players and 1 top defender (so far).
Spurs took advantage of a poor league last season but haven't rammed that home by using the extra revenue to buy some real class
 
I suspect all this means is that if he flops at Spurs and they decide to get rid, Newcastle will receive a hefty sell on fee and/ or the fee would be even lower than you might expect. In any case, Newcastle will receive a hefty wedge of money and Spurs will be relatively out of pocket.

Not that £30m is much money to Spurs or any other Premier league team anyway (nowadays).

Welcome to the wonderful world of splashing a standard £30m on average or slightly above average players by the way! :)


Looks like the news is fed by Spurs. Everton made 30 Million bid so there is no reason for Newcastle to accept these kind of risky bids or the reporter is confused what installment payment means. There is no way any selling club will accept these kind of bids. So if Spurs though enough is enough and sell him then Spurs will pay them only 6 million?
 
This reminds me of a time when Soldado cost £13m.

Spurs propaganda fed to reporters.

Actually they say 30 million will be paid to Newcastle but will be negotiated by spurs with buying club. No different from other transfer. So it's on spurs to find buying club to cover the cost in case he flops.
 
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:lol: Spurs excuses in this forum were unbelievable before the season started, and now they are being deluded with £30m of Sissoko. Sissoko is awful, even at euro 2016 I don't know why so many people were overhyping his performances because what I watched from him was he can't do a simple thing that footballer does. Receiving a pass, I remember against Portugal twice he failed to receive a simple pass and the ball went pass through his legs lol. Sissoko is good for a hard-working player to help your full back against big clubs who has Ronaldo, Neymar, Bale. But for £30m you want a starter and a better player than him.
 
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