The Spurs thread | 2016-2017 season | Serious thread - wummers/derailers will be threadbanned

[NK86]

It's not negative, it's just not as satisfying as other approaches IMO. I also think it's relative impact is declining in the Prem, because many clubs now have access to far more money than before.

Yes, attempting to buy success can be used in conjunction with other approaches, but it still remains distinct from them. And in United's case I'm simply pointing out that it's been the main approach (i.e. the one most emphasised) since Fergie stepped down, as the net spend figures show.

You do realize that some of our buys are for the future while also many academy players getting a break into the first team.

 

[We'veGotDeleAlli]

I'd put it differently, and say that City and United might improve, rather than "will". With each having many squad changes and a new playing style to embed, there's no telling how long it will take for things to gel. Like Spurs, Arsenal won't have that problem and in my view that counts for quite a lot.

Chelski will improve, but then it would be almost impossible for them not to considering their drop of nine places last season.

I agree with your comments about Spurs - it all went south after failing to beat Chelski and in the process losing both Dembele and Alli to suspensions, even tho' ordinarily an away draw at Stamford bridge would be a decent result.

True, but I just can't see them being as poor as last season. Not under Guardiola and Mourinho and not with the money they've spent. Maybe I'll be wrong, but I have a feeling it will be those two battling it out for the league.

Arsenal might actually struggle with a lack of changes, the star players in that squad have to be getting restless with the same old story. Never quite good enough for the title, never going the extra mile to improve despite having the funds to do so. They'll probably finish top 4, but I can see them struggling unless they invest.

Conte did a great job getting Juventus on track and I think he'll do the same at Chelsea. He's got a great core of players there who just need motivation. Easily good enough for top 4.

 

[GlastonSpur]

You think City will definitely be in top 4 but not United? Why so? Our business has been very good so far.

They started this window from a better position - i.e. a better squad than United's - and have/will also make good signings. And I think that Pep is a better manager than Mourinho, the latter being almost guaranteed to cause distractions that will detract from on-pitch performances.

But I'll wait to see what happens between now and the window being nearly closed before making a definite prediction.

 

[GlastonSpur]

You do realize that some of our buys are for the future while also many academy players getting a break into the first team.

Yes, but nonetheless the main emphasis has been on a very big net spend.

 

[roonster09]

Yes, but nonetheless the main emphasis has been on a very big net spend.

It's a mix, spend money, sign young players, promote from academy. Plenty of examples to prove that.

 

[Wumminator]

Yes, but nonetheless the main emphasis has been on a very big net spend.

These big players keep letting us down as well. Di Maria, Falcao and BS arrived with the most hype of our signings....

 

[GlastonSpur]

It's a mix, spend money, sign young players, promote from academy. Plenty of examples to prove that.

Yes, but nonetheless the main emphasis has been on a very big net spend.

 

[roonster09]

Yes, but nonetheless the main emphasis has been on a very big net spend.

Depends on the person. If it's ManUtd fans we talk about everything, if it's opposition fans like you they put lot of emphasis on money spent alone.

 

[GlastonSpur]

These big players keep letting us down as well. Di Maria, Falcao and BS arrived with the most hype of our signings....

True.

My own feeling is that Pogba will be the biggest let-down of them all, especially given the vast sums involved. But we'll soon see I guess.

 

[Speak]

Depends on the person. If it's ManUtd fans we talk about everything, if it's opposition fans like you they put lot of emphasis on money spent alone.

Not true.
Actually, it depends on the thread. Quite a lot of United fans like to emphasize and gloat how much money United has/can spent at every opportunity. When it suits them.
On the other hand, when it doesn't suit them, they try to pretend/claim United hasn't/doesn't spend a lot of money.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Depends on the person. If it's ManUtd fans we talk about everything, if it's opposition fans like you they put lot of emphasis on money spent alone.

I think a neutral would see that the figure for United's net spend since Fergie stepped down is by far the stand-out feature of your attempted re-building. It will so huge by the time this window closes that most people will have lost count.

 

[kouroux]

No one knows for sure but I highly doubt they'll even be 5th in the coming season.

 

[Vicar of Dibbly]

No one knows for sure but I highly doubt they'll even be 5th in the coming season.

Brilliant analysis. Nice to see you give plenty of compelling reasons for your "prediction", and that it isn't based on nothing.

 

[Attila]

Brilliant analysis. Nice to see you give plenty of compelling reasons for your "prediction", and that it isn't based on nothing.

Plenty of people have given reasons why they think Spurs wont finish top 4. I doubt his are much different

 

[Vicar of Dibbly]

Plenty of people have given reasons why they think Spurs wont finish top 4. I doubt his are much different

He hasn't said they won't finish top 4, read what he actually said.

 

[roonster09]

He hasn't said they won't finish top 4, read what he actually said.

So what. He is not saying they will be relegated. Spurs not finishing in top 5 is very much possible. ManUtd, city, arsenal, Chelsea, spurs, Liverpool. That's 6 good teams and some club will finish outside 5.

 

[Vicar of Dibbly]

So what. He is not saying they will be relegated. Spurs not finishing in top 5 is very much possible. ManUtd, city, arsenal, Chelsea, spurs, Liverpool. That's 6 good teams and some club will finish outside 5.

Liverpool??? On what basis Liverpool?? They haven't finished above spurs for 8 years apart from the one year Suarez nearly won the league for them.

 

[Attila]

He hasn't said they won't finish top 4, read what he actually said.

"I highly doubt they'll even be 5th in the coming season"

Sounds like he is saying they wont get top 4 and probably not even 5th. I guess he expects United, City, Chelsea and Liverpool to be much stronger this season for various reasons (better managers and/or new additions to the first team) while Spurs have only been adding squad players.

Arsenal - Always finish above Spurs
United - Much better manager than last year + Ibrahimovic, Mkhitaryan, Pogba (probably) and Bailly
City - Much better manager than last year + 4 or 5 new signings coming in by the end of the window (I expect so anyway) like Gundogan and Sane
Chelsea - New manager which will likely get rid of the dressing problems of last season + new signings like Kante for the first team
Liverpool - Klopp has had a full preseason to work with them and signed the players he wants to work with for his system

It wouldn't be that surprising to see spurs finish below 5th. Personally I think you will get 5th

 

[TheReligion]

True.

My own feeling is that Pogba will be the biggest let-down of them all, especially given the vast sums involved. But we'll soon see I guess.

Why? I think oppo fans are dying for him to be a failure but I just can't see it. He's technical, powerful and skilled in possession. He's got ALL of the attributes to succeed in the PL.

 

[roonster09]

Liverpool??? On what basis Liverpool?? They haven't finished above spurs for 8 years apart from the one year Suarez nearly won the league for them.

On what basis? Maybe they made smart signings and addressed their weaknesses. Or maybe in years they have very good manager.

 

[Attila]

Why? I think oppo fans are dying for him to be a failure but I just can't see it. He's technical, powerful and skilled in possession. He's got ALL of the attributes to succeed in the PL.

Apart from these attributes. Plus he might not settle in Manchester despite living there for 3 years before

No, I wouldn't, despite such a decision being a big gamble.

Alli has things that Pogba lacks: energy, aggression, a sheer drive to win, giving his all. Moreover, he's adapted to the Prem and settled in England. Pogba might not adapt well and might not settle.

I'd also note that Alli got 10 goals and 9 assists for Spurs in the league. Considering he was aged just 19 for most of the season, that's outstanding.

 

[Vicar of Dibbly]

Why? I think oppo fans are dying for him to be a failure but I just can't see it. He's technical, powerful and skilled in possession. He's got ALL of the attributes to succeed in the PL.

He may have the attributes, that doesn't mean they will transfer to the PL successfully. He wasn't that brilliant in the Euros, evengot drppoed in one game due to a dire performance.

 

[TheReligion]

Apart from these attributes. Plus he might not settle in Manchester despite living there for 3 years before

Ok.. I take it @GlastonSpur is judging Pogba from a couple of games at the Euros as opposed to knowing anything about him as a player. That's complete nonsense. Pogba is a phenomenal athlete who loves to put a foot in.

These nay sayers are going to have a shock next year. .

 

[roonster09]

He may have the attributes, that doesn't mean they will transfer to the PL successfully. He wasn't that brilliant in the Euros, evengot drppoed in one game due to a dire performance.

Kane was atrocious and Alli was comical in the euro. Not a good way to judge players.

 

[TheReligion]

He may have the attributes, that doesn't mean they will transfer to the PL successfully. He wasn't that brilliant in the Euros, evengot drppoed in one game due to a dire performance.

Alli was dismal in the Euros.. and so was Kane..

Naive comments really pal.

 

[Vicar of Dibbly]

On what basis? Maybe they made smart signings and addressed their weaknesses. Or maybe in years they have very good manager.

So Liverpool have addressed their weaknesses, but spurs haven't and aren't addressing their weaknesses, thereby restoring the status quo? Ok gotcha.

 

[Vicar of Dibbly]

Alli was dismal in the Euros.. and so was Kane..

Naive comments really pal.

Firstly, I'm not your "pal", and secondly there are plenty on here saying Kane and Alli could take a while to recover from a bad Euro. Same must apply to Pogba then. You can't have it both ways.

 

[TheReligion]

Firstly, I'm not your "pal", and secondly their are plenty on here saying Kane and Alli could take a while to recover from a bad Euro. Same must apply to Pogba then. You can't have it both ways.

You're judging Pogba on his Euros though as a player. Sounds like Glaston is too. Don't you see the difference.

And is there by the way. Not their.

 

[Attila]

Firstly, I'm not your "pal", and secondly their are plenty on here saying Kane and Alli could take a while to recover from a bad Euro. Same must apply to Pogba then. You can't have it both ways.

That's a completely different point and unless it was him who said that then its strange to bring up

 

[roonster09]

So Liverpool have addressed their weaknesses, but spurs haven't and aren't addressing their weaknesses, thereby restoring the status quo? Ok gotcha.

Why are you getting so defensive. Maybe in your heads Spurs is Madrid/Barca type club but reality is there is a good chance of finishing outside 5th and I'm not saying only for Spurs, same can happen to ManUtd, Liverpool too.

 

[Vicar of Dibbly]

You're judging Pogba on his Euros though as a player. Sounds like Glaston is too. Don't you see the difference.

And is there by the way. Not their.

?????????????

 

[TheReligion]

?????????????

You edited it

Glad I helped you with your spelling and grammar. It's what pals do!

 

[We'veGotDeleAlli]

There's definitely a good chance that we could finish outside of the top four, but Liverpool? Come on...

Their signings scream average to me. Wijnaldum isn't better than any of their current options in attacking midfield and has a stinking attitude, when the going got tough at Newcastle he downed tools and couldn't be bothered. His away record is shameful, the sort of player who will be anonymous whenever you actually need him but will put 3-4 past Norwich now and again.

Mane's a good signing, but he's not going to close the gap between us. I've seen him play quite a lot live on account of my dad having a Southampton season ticket, and he's one of the most inconsistent players out there. He'll add pace and directness to their play, but he's another player who goes missing for long periods of the season. He often goes on a run of a few games where he'll bang in the goals, filling out his statistics.

The rest of them are unknown qualities, but from their careers so far I don't see how they're going to drastically improve them. Matip could be a decent upgrade in central defence, but that's about it.

I rate Klopp, but I think Liverpool will suffer from the same shortcomings. They'll claim a few big scalps, may even win a cup, but they'll struggle in the league due to inconsistency. Unless we have a very poor season I can't see us finishing behind them.

 

[TheReligion]

That's a completely different point and unless it was him who said that then its strange to bring up

I think these oppo fans forget that we United fans know Pogba inside out given his history at our club. Alot have even continued to follow his career since he left hoping he'd return.

That said they still decide to tell us what kind of player he is despite knowing very little bar his Euro display.. this season is going to be great!

 

[We'veGotDeleAlli]

Why? I think oppo fans are dying for him to be a failure but I just can't see it. He's technical, powerful and skilled in possession. He's got ALL of the attributes to succeed in the PL.

I think Pogba will be a success, but he may struggle with the lack of space in the Premier League. Serie A is a lot more tactical and slower paced, so a midfield player has more time on the ball to pick a pass or a shot from range. Pogba won't get that here and he may struggle at first to deal with the tempo.

He's got the quality to push past that though, and as you say, all the physical attributes to make it in the Premier League. It will be interesting to see him here really, I don't think he's 100% a sure thing like a lot of United fans, but I don't see any reason to suggest he's more likely to be a failure than other signings.

 

[TheReligion]

I think Pogba will be a success, but he may struggle with the lack of space in the Premier League. Serie A is a lot more tactical and slower paced, so a midfield player has more time on the ball to pick a pass or a shot from range. Pogba won't get that here and he may struggle at first to deal with the tempo.

He's got the quality to push past that though, and as you say, all the physical attributes to make it in the Premier League. It will be interesting to see him here really, I don't think he's 100% a sure thing like a lot of United fans, but I don't see any reason to suggest he's more likely to be a failure than other signings.

Now there's a more reasonable opinion. Well done Sir.

Yeah it could take Pogba a little time to settle but I'm confident he will as he's young and still developing. His athletic ability and physical presence will help him get through that stage in my opinion but then alot of United fans are confident of this having watched him develop for the 3 years or more he was at the club.

 

[BigDub]

You're judging Pogba on his Euros though as a player. Sounds like Glaston is too. Don't you see the difference.

And is there by the way. Not their.

Assuming you meant "it's" not "is". Typos are a real bitch eh?

As for this Pogba debate, I have a tough time seeing him be anything but a success. For 100 mil you'd certainly hope so at least. Young, athletic, fantastic overall ability. There's so much to like. The money part is just the nature of the market these days. Doesn't change the fact that he's a fantastic player.

 

[TheReligion]

Assuming you meant "it's" not "is". Typos are a real bitch eh?

Hang on. Let me edit it and pretend I didn't type it. One sec.

 

[Attila]

I think Pogba will be a success, but he may struggle with the lack of space in the Premier League. Serie A is a lot more tactical and slower paced, so a midfield player has more time on the ball to pick a pass or a shot from range. Pogba won't get that here and he may struggle at first to deal with the tempo.

He's got the quality to push past that though, and as you say, all the physical attributes to make it in the Premier League. It will be interesting to see him here really, I don't think he's 100% a sure thing like a lot of United fans, but I don't see any reason to suggest he's more likely to be a failure than other signings.

I remember Fabregas saying that the PL has more space to work in because of the high speed (and lack of positional discipline) of the game compared to La Liga which is more tactical. So I wouldn't be surprised if there's more space in the PL than the slow tactical Serie A



At 3.15

 

[BigDub]

Hang on. Let me edit it and pretend I didn't type it. One sec.

Yeah. The beauty of the Internet.

Not to take this thread too off topic, and maybe I just need to read other threads in greater depth, but I would be curious to know if you (and anyone else really) think there is still a need for United to sign another midfielder? And does the transfer fee for Pogba have any impact at all on the ability to make any additional necessary signings? Not that money is ever really an issue. It would seem Schneiderin taking a big step forward is a huge key in the season to come.