Thought Spurs looked a bit out of sorts right from the start last night, they had a real off-day. Wasn't surprised by the scoreline in the end, was almost expecting West Ham to get another on the break near the end.
The Spurs thread | 2016-2017 season | Serious thread - wummers/derailers will be threadbanned
- Thread starter baanke laal
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So last summer you expected to win the league title did you?
And how is finishing 2nd (most likely), compared to 3rd last season - and amassing a club-record points haul on the Prem era - stagnating?
I'm aware of the point you are making and in fairness it's perfectly valid... for teams with a limited transfer budget such as Spurs and the like. For teams with an unlimted budget it is entirely unnecessary to adpot such a risky transfer strategy. If Poch became United manager at the end of the season, there is absolutely no doubt he would go on a wild spending spree, why? Because he has the funds to do so.
I won't deny that the business Poch has done on a limted budget is nothing short of exceptional, miraculous even. But need I remind you that his transfer strategy is forced upon him. I'm sure he would perfer the safe option given the opportunity.
Moyes wasted the funds due to being incompetent, LVG performed reasonably at best and Jose I would say has been successful, he most certainly deserves another transfer window in any case.
Martial was a lot more than £30m
Rachel Riley pretty much sums up Spurs for me.
I've seen a lot of people use the term 'bottle job'... What exactly have Spurs done to have 'bottled' it?
I love Rachel Riley. She is correct.
Because it's same old Spurs. Nearly 10 years without a trophy and they always seem to panic whenever they come close to actually winning something.
As a United fan I expect to win the league title every season.
2nd, 3rd, 12... If you're not 1st you are last etc. Yes, stagnated. Spurs will remain trophyless, as they did the season prior, in what way do you believe they have progressed?
Have Spurs really ever come to close to winning it this season though? I would say that Chelsea have always looked in control despite some blips along the way.
Winning trophies is what is remembered in football and United are still doing that. Brag about your league positions all you want but nobody is going to remember that in 10+ years.
There's plenty of doubt. His first priority would be to weed out the egos, along with the players who are past it or not good-enough. Then he would look to improve fitness levels, improve team spirit and shape a balanced team, rather than just a collection of 'stars' and 'big names'.
Having money spend would of course make his job easier, but he's not a cheque-book manager.
Last season they had a good chance at winning the title but they ended up throwing it away. Also two weeks ago in the FA Cup semi-final against Chelsea they were more than capable of winning that game but once again they threw it away. And let's not forget their pathetic performances in the CL. They then got a chance in the EL and ended up getting knocked out to Gent.
Spurs fans can brag about finishing 3rd, 2nd etc all they want but winning trophies is what matters in football and they are failing to do that. We've managed to win trophies even in our bad patch since Fergie retired and even Arsenal have managed to win a couple of FA Cups in the last few seasons despite them being 'finished' under Wenger.
I have already set out the obvious ways in which we've progressed - go back and read. And another step in that progression will arrive when the new stadium opens in 15 months time.
If 2nd place is no better than last place in your eyes, then you should switch your allegiance to Sunderland and see what that feels like.
That goes without saying I would have thought. Jose has been "weeding them out" all season long.
You are seriously naive Glaston, they are all chequebook managers given the chance. Every last one of them. It's just a matter of spending what you can afford.
Poch shops at Lidl down to necessity.
Jose shops at Waitrose because he can afford to.
Okay, you've lost me.
Says more about your mentality than mine.
Let's hope your gaffer and squad think like me for your sake eh.
Last season I agree they did bottle it to a degree. But apart from that, certainly this season none of those are example of a team 'bottling it'.
So going through examples. Firstly, they didn't throw away their FA game against Chelsea! They were simply outclassed by the better team. In fact they fought from behind twice, before Chelsea's superior quality shone through. They were poor in the CL and EL yes. But again they didn't 'bottle it' they were simply inexperienced and not well equipped enough deal with the demands of Europe.
'Bottling it' is just a loose term you're using to explain every failing of Spurs. Also whilst your right trophies are what matters, for Spurs progression is the most important thing at this stage. They need to build themselves in a position where they can consistently compete for trophies in the future on all fronts. At this stage going for all the trophies means surrendering the campaign on another front because they don't have the strength in depth like we do. So for them the most important thing is to cement top 4, to keep that consistency and progression going forward. Not to mention having CL football to attract future players to build their squad further. If they don't come within reach of any silverware again next season, then that's when I'd begin to start worrying if I was a Spurs fan.
This season the disappointment should be not the League, but not having a place in the FA cup finals right now given they got to the semis, whilst maintaining a title challenge. However like I said, they were beaten on the day by the best team in the country.
It's strange how Poch has managed to buy better quality goods at Lidl than Mourinho has at Waitrose. Maybe the staff at the latter see him coming a mile off ...
Agree with you, and I'm not worried about any players leaving this season, I've so far been correct (for example Bale and Modric) so I hope that continue to be the case. I also share your concern about Wembley, and we really do need to increase our form away. One thing that might help is that we can change the pitch size on Wembley for our home games to resemble WHL if we want. More than that, we really need to start the season better next year, we've been slow starters two years running now, but with the Wembley factor it may not be that easy. We'll have to see, but I hope for top 3 and some kind of trophy next season.
At the moment most other teams will have to play catch up with us, and Chelsea will have CL, so I am optimistic.
Kane actually scored an own goal against Gent which helped them score 2 goals with 1 shot on target. In fact, over the two legs they had 3 goals and 3 shots on target. We played full strength except Eriksen who was subbed on in the first leg, this isn't throwing a competition, but squad rotation though.
Was an incredibly disappointing result and we weren't good enough, but also unlucky.
Good response
The point remains, Poch spends what he can afford, are you denying that?
Panicked? Have you seen their run of results over the past few months? I wish we'd panic and go on a similar run ffs.
This comment can be attributed to every Arsenal fan after they won their last PL trophy. "Challenge for the title" without winning.... "finish in the top 4"..... "have CL scope".... "low spending"...."finance new stadium"
Agree with you, and I'm not worried about any players leaving this season, I've so far been correct (for example Bale and Modric) so I hope that continue to be the case. I also share your concern about Wembley, and we really do need to increase our form away. One thing that might help is that we can change the pitch size on Wembley for our home games to resemble WHL if we want. More than that, we really need to start the season better next year, we've been slow starters two years running now, but with the Wembley factor it may not be that easy. We'll have to see, but I hope for top 3 and some kind of trophy next season.
At the moment most other teams will have to play catch up with us, and Chelsea will have CL, so I am optimistic.
Kane actually scored an own goal against Gent which helped them score 2 goals with 1 shot on target. In fact, over the two legs they had 3 goals and 3 shots on target. We played full strength except Eriksen who was subbed on in the first leg, this isn't throwing a competition, but squad rotation though.
Was an incredibly disappointing result and we weren't good enough, but also unlucky.
I didn't know you were allowed to change the pitch size at Wembley? That should help you a bit.
By the way, do you know what would happen if you reach a Wembley fixture in the Cup Competitions next year? Do you still play at Wembley or is it neutral ground?
Has he really bought better quality goods? Mourinho has only signed 4 players, one of which was a free. Sissoko is far and away the worst signing made by either manager (on the evidence so far). Which perhaps gives a hint as to the perils of actually having money available to spend.
Lost at a crucial time against a lesser team?
Would be at Wembley, but the supporter allocation would be different I'd imagine.
I'm 90% sure we can change the size since that's up to the club to decide on before the league start, I'd love confirmation of it though if someone is 100% certain. Also think I read something about it somewhere.
3 of your 4 signings last summer havent been useful at all this season. That's £60m on Sissoko, Jansen and NKoudou
Honestly how could you think Bailly, Pogba, Mkhitaryan and Ibrahimovic is lower quality than that
Bizarre, gives you a pretty bid advantage. Good for you I guess if you can get that far next Season.
Do you really not get it?
There are 92 professional clubs in England. Only one can be crowned Champions but that doesn't mean everyone else is obsolete. Most clubs up and down the country would do anything to just be in the Premier League, most PL clubs would dream of making the Top 4 yet you've got spoilt fans of 'big' clubs rubbishing it because it's not good enough.
It's not just Utd fans. Look at the Arsenal fans crying about every season being 'shit'. Take a step back and think of the fans who have to make their way down to watch defeats week in week out, or see their clubs dragged to ruins by mismanagement and absent owners. Then think why do people support these clubs when they hardly ever win?
United's 'demise' post Fergie is something 99% of clubs in England can only dream of. Yet spoilt fans bitch and moan. Then again some bitched and moaned when Fergie was in charge.
Perspective is an amazing thing
I rate Uniteds signings last season, I think they are all good players, although the value for money argument can be questioned (although this is not an issue for you). This summer we didn't buy that well, although two of those players are very young and can come good or have resale value.
I think it has been a good season for Spurs. Another solid run in the league with direct qualification for the Champions League. They should do better than this year in what concerns their european campaign. Always talking about budget domestically but that reasoning can be used to demand better results in the CL/Europa league since Spurs has one of the highest budgets besides the traditional top clubs. In their domestic cup runs they were decent. There's no shame in losing to Chelsea in the Semi's. At least they didn't lose at home to Wolves. That's what i consider an embarassing result. In the league cup they lost with Liverpool away which can be classed as a normal result.
They do need to start winning some cups. While i can excuse the difficulty to win the league, i can't do the same with their cup performances. Clubs like Portsmouth, Wigan, Swansea or Birmingham have won a cup. As a supporter of a club who last won the league 15 years ago, i love to win the Cup. We always do big celebrations when we win the portuguese Cup. Can´t say the same about qualifying for the CL, although i understand our board prefers the latter due to the financial gains.
They do need to start winning some cups. While i can excuse the difficulty to win the league, i can't do the same with their cup performances. Clubs like Portsmouth, Wigan, Swansea or Birmingham have won a cup. As a supporter of a club who last won the league 15 years ago, i love to win the Cup. We always do big celebrations when we win the portuguese Cup. Can´t say the same about qualifying for the CL, although i understand our board prefers the latter due to the financial gains.
Not really 'bottled it' though. Spurs were on a superb run of wins prior to this game, and now losing 1 for me at least isn't the equivalent of 'bottling it'. If anything it shows the ruthless efficiency and quality of Chelsea.
"If you're not 1st you are last"
I would say a better analogy is that Poch has picked out goods selectively at Lidl but has baked his cake very well by bringing the best of the ingredients so that they complement each other in a synergistic fashion. Mourinho on the other hand knows his recipe, but has found that he doesn't quite have all the ingredients that he needs to make his recipe, and thus needs a second round at Waitrose.
Ibra, Mkhitaryan and Bailly were all pretty well priced.
Pogba at £90m is a lot of money but it's worth remembering that the majority of United's money comes from sponsorships and commercial deals (I think it's £260m a year) and having players like Pogba would help with that. His value won't just be decided on the football side I think
I like ribbing Spurs as much as the next person but I don't really think it's a "bottle job". They lost to West Ham, the sort of result that happens over the course of the season. If you go back to late February, they were 10 points behind a Chelsea side that had been playing 1 game a week all season while Spurs had Champions League to contend with and two extra Europa League games. Despite this they managed to claw back to within 4 points of Chelsea but the damage was long done. They'd been on the back foot for weeks and it only took one bad result for them to be out of it. They'd won their last 9 EPL games in a row and only dropped points in 3 of their last 20 games (53/60 point). A loss at some point was inevitable though and it came late enough in the season to say "that's probably it". They did well to even get close, it's not really a "bottle job" to fall just short.
Hopefully good news for us though as Chelsea could leave them with nothing to play for by the time we play them and we might still have something to fight for.
Hopefully good news for us though as Chelsea could leave them with nothing to play for by the time we play them and we might still have something to fight for.
It's like you haven't noticed how important the champions league is for status, sponsorship and bringing players in.
You may not like it, most of us don't like it, but it's the way it is.
Arsenal are an extreme case, as their manager/board setup don't let them crack on.
I'd use City as a better example. We all knew that when they first got into the champions league they'd become a monumental force, and so it proved.
This is the 5th season in 6 now that they've finished above us. That's quite a worrying stat.
But that all is a direct knock on from them first emerging and using the building block of the champions league place.
If we can get in there, it's so obvious a benefit, it doesn't even need labouring. We'll have needed 15 games to win the Europa this year. 15 games!
It's tired nonsense, all this "Bottle job" stuff.
A bottle job would have been if they'd been 10 points clear and collapsed into 2nd.
Not finishing in their highest position in...well, you'd really have to dig out the history books
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