The Second RedCafe Sheep Draft

NM said:
@VivaJanuzaj You still have to decide which Scholes it is though. He can't be box to box AND control the game.
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I thought a bit about that under the all time British/Irish draft. Fact is that with Scholes you actually get two different players in one - which gives you great tactical room, almost to the point of it being unfair. If I get around to running one of these things, I'm planning on reintroducing the points system we had in one draft (can't remember the overall theme), i.e. players are "valued" at X points according to their quality (per common consensus), vote pulling power and possibly other factors.

In such a setting you could actually include both incarnations of Scholes: The primarily attacking midfielder and the deep lying playmaker.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
4-5-1 with a pair of attacking fullbacks? Dunga was not a good choice. Someone who could drop into defence would have been better.
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I don't think he needs his full-backs to be especially attacking given he has Figo and Nedved on the wings. It's a great midfield three and any of the usual arguments against Keane/Scholes (too gung-ho, lose against a three) will be negated by Dunga's presence.
 
Gio said:
I don't think he needs his full-backs to be especially attacking given he has Figo and Nedved on the wings. It's a great midfield three and any of the usual arguments against Keane/Scholes (too gung-ho, lose against a three) will be negated by Dunga's presence.
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Cheers, this is pretty much what I was going for, but I might do get attacking full backs because I think that Dunga with that strong CB duo is giving the defense enough balance to allow full backs to attack often.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
I thought a bit about that under the all time British/Irish draft. Fact is that with Scholes you actually get two different players in one - which gives you great tactical room, almost to the point of it being unfair. If I get around to running one of these things, I'm planning on reintroducing the points system we had in one draft (can't remember the overall theme), i.e. players are "valued" at X points according to their quality (per common consensus), vote pulling power and possibly other factors.

In such a setting you could actually include both incarnations of Scholes: The primarily attacking midfielder and the deep lying playmaker.
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Interesting idea. It's similar to an idea we floated ahead of the World Cup draft where you could have multiple versions of the same player (e.g. Maradona '86 v Maradona '90). Bit impractical in the end but worth exploriong nonetheless.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Tbh, it will be like playing Breitner, though not as distinct. All it needs is for the strategy to clearly mention which version. There is no middle ground there.
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It's not as distinct - or alternatively, it's far more distinct: Could you field Breitner in midfield in the first half, then switch him to fullback in the second? I'd say you could. But you can't do the same with Scholes - he occupied his roles at different stages of his development as a player and he didn't retain his potential as an attacking midfielder after he transformed into a deep lying playmaker.
 
Gio said:
Interesting idea. It's similar to an idea we floated ahead of the World Cup draft where you could have multiple versions of the same player (e.g. Maradona '86 v Maradona '90). Bit impractical in the end but worth exploriong nonetheless.
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Aye - it could end in chaos, of course, and it would demand a different focus on the part of the voters - who would have to understand the premise of the thing properly.

But, yeah, I reckon it could be explored. The early version of player X is worth ten points, the late version only four - and so forth.
 
I don't like this "86' Maradona vs 90' Maradona thing", when Aldo first started the first sheep draft he referred us to a different forum's sheep draft and they had all kinds of players based on years, it was terrible, so little creative thinking, just stick a number behind Maradona or a number behind Cruyff and trust the random voter to do the research on it.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
It's not as distinct - or alternatively, it's far more distinct: Could you field Breitner in midfield in the first half, then switch him to fullback in the second? I'd say you could. But you can't do the same with Scholes - he occupied his roles at different stages of his development as a player and he didn't retain his potential as an attacking midfielder after he transformed into a deep lying playmaker.
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Is it really that different with Breitner? I don't think he played leftback again after the World Cup in '74. Retired from the nationalteam the same summer and moved to Real where he was transformed into a midfielder and never looked back. Once he returned to Germany 3 years later, he continued to play in midfield, the same when he returned to the nationalteam towards the end of his career. Two different players in my book.
 
Skizzo said:
Couple of lovely rounds coming up for your guys next.

Notice there's no " " around lovely...so you know there's nothing sinister :)
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Don't tell me you're going soft on us now. We've come this far!
 
VivaJanuzaj said:
Cheers mate, I actually think Vierchowod is the "quality pick", I think he will do Ferrara's partner(lets call him x for now) much better than the original one and together they will form a very solid defensive duo.
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Controversial IMO, Vierchowod had more pace, X -while no Rio- was better on the ball, remarkably good for a stopper actually. Not his most recognised quality, granted :lol:
 
Balu said:
Is it really that different with Breitner? I don't think he played leftback again after the World Cup in '74. Retired from the nationalteam the same summer and moved to Real where he was transformed into a midfielder and never looked back. Once he returned to Germany 3 years later, he continued to play in midfield, the same when he returned to the nationalteam towards the end of his career. Two different players in my book.
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Yeah, I guess you're right. I was thinking more in a hypothetical sense - could he, given his skill set and overall game, make the switch from Breitner the prime midfielder into Breitner the still-very-good side back, in a hypothetical match.

Could Scholes, the old and wise playmaker make the switch to a top level goal-hungry attacking midfielder? Clearly not, I'd say.

Anyway, it's not comparable really, as the two respective positions in question are so obviously different: With Breitner there is never any doubt - LB versus midfielder. With Scholes it's midfielder (of one kind) versus midfielder (of a different kind) - which means that if you just stick him somewhere in the middle, people can in theory choose which incarnation they want, which can in turn lead to Scholes being overrated (if you combine the incarnations, you get just about the best midfielder ever).
 
Gio said:
I don't think he needs his full-backs to be especially attacking given he has Figo and Nedved on the wings. It's a great midfield three and any of the usual arguments against Keane/Scholes (too gung-ho, lose against a three) will be negated by Dunga's presence.
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Agreed, not sure why he calls them wingbacks. I wouldn't.
 
Skizzo said:
Should have 11 after this round is finished, 12 after the next.

Then a chance at redemption.

Then a special bonus for you all.
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You are not unleasing the blocked players are you? It's bound to completely imbalance things.
 
Hope the last round isn't blocked players, puts those still needing defenders at a huge disadvantage IMO.
 
Round 8, Stage 1:

Raees - Pass (Carvalho)
NM - Pass (Gattuso) Remember, 2t, 1s @Balu
harms - Pass (Ballack)
Joga Bonito - Pass (Vieri)
Stobzilla - Pass (Robben)
BorisDeLaFora - Pass (Buffon)
Edgar Allen Pillow - Pass (Montero)
kps88 - Pass (Sagnol)
MDFC Manager - Fail (Jaap Stam)
MJJ - Fail (already picked - Iniesta)
sajeev - Fail (Dani Alves)
VivaJanuzaj - Fail (Lahm)
Annahnomoss - Fail (Lahm)
NoPace - Fail (Dani Alves)
Kazi - Fail (Lahm)
Cutch - Fail (Jaap Stam)


Round 8, Stage 2:

Annahnomoss - Fail (already picked -Sagnol)
MJJ - Fail (Makelele)
Cutch - Fail (Makelele)
NoPace - Fail (Makelele)
sajeev - Pass (Kaka)
MDFC Manager - Pass (Irwin)
VivaJanuzaj - Pass (Zambrotta)
Kazi - Pass (Bale)


Round 8, Stage 3:

Annahnomoss - Fail (G. Neville)
NoPace - Fail (G. Neville)
MJJ - Pass (Drogba)
Cutch - Pass (Gamarra)

Managers needing sheep - 2
@Annahnomoss @NoPace
 
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