The Second RedCafe Sheep Draft

Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Striker means you can't score. If you have a rock solid defence, then you can argue to a draw.
A sheep in CB will be a straight loss, especially with quality of strikers available. You might need a all-GOAT caliber attack to outscore what you concede. Don't think any amount of DM's will cover for a sheep CB.
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You can't argue for a draw, believe me
 
Round 8, Stage 1:

Raees - Pass
MJJ - Fail (already picked - Iniesta)
sajeev - Fail (Dani Alves)
VivaJanuzaj - Fail (Lahm)
harms - Pass
Joga Bonito - Pass
Stobzilla - Pass
Cutch - Fail (Jaap Stam)
BorisDeLaFora - Pass
Annahnomoss - Fail (Lahm)
NoPace - Fail (Dani Alves)
Kazi - Fail (Lahm)
Edgar Allen Pillow - Pass
kps88 - Pass
MDFC Manager - Fail (Jaap Stam)
NM - Pass

@MJJ @sajeev @VivaJanuzaj @Cutch @Annahnomoss @NoPace @Kazi @MDFC Manager

PLAYER BLOCK LIST:

Beckenbauer, Di Stefano, Cruyff, Rijkaard, Sammer, Haan, Zebec, Vialli, Deschamps, Falcao, Maradona, Matthaus, Thuram, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, C. Ronaldo, Moore, Maldini, Koeman, Eusebio, Seeler, Zidane, Gullit, Best, Figueroa, Duncan Edwards, Stoichkov, Romario, Jorginho, Rivelino, Kocsis, Didi, Messi, Fachetti, Neeskens, Pele, Dani Alves, Lahm, Jaap Stam
 
glad to have somebody go through on the first pick. Neither of my options were going to be blocked so I was ok
 
Big man mountain Jaap is blocked. Wanted him really badly in the previous round but couldn't get a good partner.
 
Balu said:
sajeev - Fail (Dani Alves)
VivaJanuzaj - Fail (Lahm)
Annahnomoss - Fail (Lahm)
NoPace - Fail (Dani Alves)
Kazi - Fail (Lahm)
MDFC Manager - Fail (Jaap Stam)
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WTF NoPace? Dani Alves in a back four behind Beckham? I mentioned to sajeev Viva/Kazi/MDFC could be an issue for him, but not you. As expected, most went with Lahm.

So close...
 
NM said:
glad to have somebody go through on the first pick. Neither of my options were going to be blocked so I was ok
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You sure about that? I had him down as the 2nd round pick if you didn't pass. Now you obviously got him so back to the drawing board.
 
If only I got Branko Stankovic. Going to have to change my system now, perhaps to a Pep Guardiola style of play.
 
antohan said:
You sure about that? I had him down as the 2nd round pick if you didn't pass. Now you obviously got him so back to the drawing board.
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Nobody was getting him first round and I genuinely think you don't know which 2 I was considering. or at least one of the two.
 
antohan said:
WTF NoPace? Dani Alves in a back four behind Beckham? I mentioned to sajeev Viva/Kazi/MDFC could be an issue for him, but not you. As expected, most went with Lahm.

So close...
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Rummennige and especially Hugo Sanchez were best getting early deliveries, right? That's why I went for Beckham (and a way to get the best out of a creative passer like Liedholm). Alves would be another double-digit assist type in his prime. He was also plain fantastic in his prime.
 
NoPace said:
Rummennige and especially Hugo Sanchez were best getting early deliveries, right? That's why I went for Beckham (and a way to get the best out of a creative passer like Liedholm). Alves would be another double-digit assist type in his prime. He was also plain fantastic in his prime.
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OK, so add prime Alves and prime Becks and you get two double-digit assist players on the right flank... It doesn't really work that way. You said yourself the forwards preferred Beckham's kind of delivery! He was fantastic, of course, that's why sajeev wanted him. As a wingback though, with a back three covering his arse.
 
antohan said:
OK, so add prime Alves and prime Becks and you get two double-digit assist players on the right flank... It doesn't really work that way. You said yourself the forwards preferred Beckham's kind of delivery! He was fantastic, of course, that's why sajeev wanted him. As a wingback though, with a back three covering his arse.
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Alves was also fantastic, in his prime, when playing in a back 4, even when Abidal wasn't refusing to cross half on the other side.

Diminishing returns is an interesting argument, but I think I'd be able to argue that if teams weren't overloading their left side defensively to block Beckham and Alves from delivering to my strikers they'd be in trouble. And if they do overload, that should open things up elsewhere.
 
NoPace said:
Alves was also fantastic, in his prime, when playing in a back 4, even when Abidal wasn't refusing to cross half on the other side.

Diminishing returns is an interesting argument, but I think I'd be able to argue that if teams weren't overloading their left side defensively to block Beckham and Alves from delivering to my strikers they'd be in trouble. And if they do overload, that should open things up elsewhere.
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Very underrated player. In general all the great offensive full backs are extremely underrated and I just wish we could see a draft where R. Carlos/Alves got some stronger recognition. They were the type of players to win matches for their teams and they did so consistently and should be regarded as top class match winners.

Rarely do you see someone like Alves/Carlos being mentioned as the match winner when in fact Alves assist stats speaks for themselves. After watching full matches of Nilton Santos and Cabrini, and some more of the classic "offensive full backs" I can't say that Alves and Carlos weren't damn close in ability and that pointing at Alves and Carlos and claiming they were defensively inept in comparison is just wrong.

I've not watched enough of Brehme which is why I picked him, so I can sit down and watch some full matches of the lad but I seriously doubt he's as good as him and Zanetti are made out to be. I.e offensively better than Alves/Carlos while defensively pretty much impregnable.

In general I think the offensive part of the full backs is neglected completely in these drafts more often than not.
 
NoPace said:
Alves was also fantastic, in his prime, when playing in a back 4, even when Abidal wasn't refusing to cross half on the other side.

Diminishing returns is an interesting argument, but I think I'd be able to argue that if teams weren't overloading their left side defensively to block Beckham and Alves from delivering to my strikers they'd be in trouble. And if they do overload, that should open things up elsewhere.
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Very subjective. Alves will move to midfield to deliver crosses, exactly where Becks like to operate. Using Becks to just occupy the fullback is a waste of his talent.

It's not a complementary partnership. Becks would be better partnered with ### type defender. Good partnerships complement each other, not playing same type player overload. Imo.
 
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@Edgar Allan Pillow

Unpicked player alert. Knew he would be mentioned somewhere with this ongoing particular topic. Had to refrain commenting on it myself as that name would inevitably pop out.

Annahnomoss said:
Very underrated player. In general all the great offensive full backs are extremely underrated and I just wish we could see a draft where R. Carlos/Alves got some stronger recognition. They were the type of players to win matches for their teams and they did so consistently and should be regarded as top class match winners.

Rarely do you see someone like Alves/Carlos being mentioned as the match winner when in fact Alves assist stats speaks for themselves. After watching full matches of Nilton Santos and Cabrini, and some more of the classic "offensive full backs" I can't say that Alves and Carlos weren't damn close in ability and that pointing at Alves and Carlos and claiming they were defensively inept in comparison is just wrong.

I've not watched enough of Brehme which is why I picked him, so I can sit down and watch some full matches of the lad but I seriously doubt he's as good as him and Zanetti are made out to be. I.e offensively better than Alves/Carlos while defensively pretty much impregnable.

In general I think the offensive part of the full backs is neglected completely in these drafts more often than not.
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You are in for a treat then. He was a really cultured and an intelligent player.

Agree with your point about the offensive aspects of certain wing backs being ignored while they are being drummed up as a liability defensively.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Very subjective. Alves will move to midfield to deliver crosses, exactly where Becks like to operate. Using Becks to just occupy the fullback is a waste of his talent.

It's not a complementary partnership. Becks would be better partnered with Neville type defender. Good partnerships complement each other, not playing same type player overload. Imo.
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Alves has proven he is brilliant at hugging the touchline as well, he doesn't need to occupy the more central space where Beckham would be. I do agree that the double threat thing is going to see diminishing returns though. With some great link up play from his forwards and if they have the dribbling ability to lockup tight defenses then it could be pretty damn good though.

Clearly not a draft winning tactic, it has to be said.
 
Joga Bonito said:
@Edgar Allan Pillow

Unpicked player alert. Knew he would be mentioned somewhere with this ongoing particular topic. Had to refrain commenting on it myself as that name would inevitably pop out.




You are in for a treat then. He was a really cultured and an intelligent player.

Agree with your point about the offensive aspects of certain wing backs being ignored while they are being drummed up as a liability defensively.
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I sure am! :drool: Lovely to actually watch full matches of players you've read a lot about and heard so much about. More often than not you get a completely new perspective on the player.
 
Annahnomoss said:
Very underrated player. In general all the great offensive full backs are extremely underrated and I just wish we could see a draft where R. Carlos/Alves got some stronger recognition. They were the type of players to win matches for their teams and they did so consistently and should be regarded as top class match winners.

Rarely do you see someone like Alves/Carlos being mentioned as the match winner when in fact Alves assist stats speaks for themselves. After watching full matches of Nilton Santos and Cabrini, and some more of the classic "offensive full backs" I can't say that Alves and Carlos weren't damn close in ability and that pointing at Alves and Carlos and claiming they were defensively inept in comparison is just wrong.

I've not watched enough of Brehme which is why I picked him, so I can sit down and watch some full matches of the lad but I seriously doubt he's as good as him and Zanetti are made out to be. I.e offensively better than Alves/Carlos while defensively pretty much impregnable.

In general I think the offensive part of the full backs is neglected completely in these drafts more often than not.
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Can't disagree with any of that, that's why sajeev was hellbent on getting him, and I agreed. I don't really get it in NoPace's setup though, not as clearly as in sajeev's or kazi's, also Viva's but less so.

Enjoy Brehme, phenomenal player, so much of the attacking play seemed to rely on him. Ala Alves, who was more winger-like in his foraging, but he trumps him - comfortably- as a defender.
 
VivaJanuzaj said:
Wait I didn't get it, you get my setup or not?
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You aren't playing wingbacks, that's why Lahm was more appropriate, but I can see Alves having tonnes of space for him to make an impact, which is the point.

With NoPace I just don't see it, it would have been a bit of a clusterfeck if you ask me: Beckham has better delivery that is better suited to his forwards -Sánchez in particular- so you want someone who can help him free up and find space to deliver, not someone who will just run past him and leave him for dead stranded in midfield while he runs to the touchline. That wide space can be competently covered by Rummenigge as well. It really doesn't add up to more than the sum of parts, not at all.
 
BTW, I love Crespo, awesome pick. Poor chap, his later years didn't help his rep but he was breathtaking in his prime. Such a complete player...
 
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