The Second RedCafe Sheep Draft

Skizzo said:
I'm here. Been out most of the day. Didn't seem to be too much going on around here today.
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Already asleep or still around? Not that we both start with the colouring.
 
Round 6, Stage 1:

Stobzilla - Pass
kps88 - Pass
MJJ - Fail (Hristo Stoichkov)
Raees - Fail (Romario)
harms - Fail (Romario)
BorisDeLaFora - Pass
Sajeev - Pass
Edgar Allan Pillow - Fail (Romario)
Annahnomoss - Fail (Hristo Stoichkov)
NoPace - Fail (Jorginho)
Joga Bonito - Fail (Hristo Stoichkov)
VivaJanuzaj - Pass
MDFC Manager - Pass
Cutch - Pass
NM - Fail (Romario)
Kazi - Fail (Jorginho)

PLAYER BLOCK LIST:

Beckenbauer, Di Stefano, Cruyff, Rijkaard, Sammer, Haan, Zebec, Vialli, Deschamps, Falcao, Maradona, Matthaus, Thuram, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, C. Ronaldo, Moore, Maldini, Koeman, Eusebio, Seeler, Zidane, Gullit, Best, Figueroa, Duncan Edwards, Stoichkov, Romario, Jorginho

@MJJ @Raees @harms @Edgar Allan Pillow @Annahnomoss @NoPace @Joga Bonito @NM @Kazi We await your 2nd attempt.
 
Didn't want him, but couldn't afford for him to go unchallenged. Someone stole a gem here, even if I didn't need him either. And now I'm probably getting a sheep, considering the amount of passes here.
 
Out of interest, what's the opinion on the 'changing picks is not allowed' rule?

We had a few really tough cases, like MJJ picking a player, who was already in someone else's team from previous rounds, realising it within a few minutes by himself, and getting a sheep as a result of the rule. Some others asked to change their picks after finding a better player, but we always denied it.

I personally like the rule. The last time it drove me nuts that we could change the picks till the end, because even after submitting a pick, you'd still look for better options. This time, once you've sent it, it's done and you can stop looking.

We won't change it for this draft, just thought it's interesting to discuss it for future sheep drafts.
 
MDFC Manager said:
I'm counting 2, possibly 3 gems stolen. Was expecting at least one of them to be blocked.
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Don't know about the third - there is a gap in quality between those two and others (and I don't like one of them). There are lots of quality players left though. But my research wasn't thorough for this round, maybe I missed someone.
 
Those paying attention would have known Annah was going for Stoichkov. :lol:
 
Balu said:
Out of interest, what's the opinion on the 'changing picks is not allowed' rule?

We had a few really tough cases, like MJJ picking a player, who was already in someone else's team from previous rounds, realising it within a few minutes by himself, and getting a sheep as a result of the rule. Some others asked to change their picks after finding a better player, but we always denied it.

I personally like the rule. The last time it drove me nuts that we could change the picks till the end, because even after submitting a pick, you'd still look for better options. This time, once you've sent it, it's done and you can stop looking.

We won't change it for this draft, just thought it's interesting to discuss it for future sheep drafts.
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Good - and it allows us not to wait until the deadline. I fecked up big time in this round though, I was actually hoping that my bid won't go through, Romario isn't a great fit for my team :lol: I would've changed my pick if it was possible. I like those "mistakes" though, it's funnier that way.
 
Balu said:
Round 6, Stage 1:

Stobzilla - Pass
kps88 - Pass
MJJ - Fail (Hristo Stoichkov)
Raees - Fail (Romario)
harms - Fail (Romario)
BorisDeLaFora - Pass
Sajeev - Pass
Edgar Allan Pillow - Fail (Romario)
Annahnomoss - Fail (Hristo Stoichkov)
NoPace - Fail (Jorginho)
Joga Bonito - Fail (Hristo Stoichkov)
VivaJanuzaj - Pass
MDFC Manager - Pass
Cutch - Pass
NM - Fail (Romario)
Kazi - Fail (Jorginho)

PLAYER BLOCK LIST:

Beckenbauer, Di Stefano, Cruyff, Rijkaard, Sammer, Haan, Zebec, Vialli, Deschamps, Falcao, Maradona, Matthaus, Thuram, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, C. Ronaldo, Moore, Maldini, Koeman, Eusebio, Seeler, Zidane, Gullit, Best, Figueroa, Duncan Edwards, Stoichkov, Romario, Jorginho

@MJJ @Raees @harms @Edgar Allan Pillow @Annahnomoss @NoPace @Joga Bonito @NM @Kazi We await your 2nd attempt.
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Lol WUT?!? Seriously? :lol:
 
Balu said:
Out of interest, what's the opinion on the 'changing picks is not allowed' rule?

We had a few really tough cases, like MJJ picking a player, who was already in someone else's team from previous rounds, realising it within a few minutes by himself, and getting a sheep as a result of the rule. Some others asked to change their picks after finding a better player, but we always denied it.

I personally like the rule. The last time it drove me nuts that we could change the picks till the end, because even after submitting a pick, you'd still look for better options. This time, once you've sent it, it's done and you can stop looking.

We won't change it for this draft, just thought it's interesting to discuss it for future sheep drafts.
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It's a shit rule, tbh. All it does is make life easy for mods. Should be scrapped with immediate effect.

The rule should be you can change picks till deadline or 10 mins after last manager submits his pick whichever is earlier.

It also becomes incentive not to be last. Inform last manager that his pick his final and proceed.

A simple picks frozen announced in thread should do it.
 
Went safe again, getting to a stage where I'm going to have a team of very good players but no game changing GOATs to swing it, this definitely was not the round to gamble on it though.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
It's a shit rule, tbh. All it does is make life easy for mods. Should be scrapped with immediate effect.

The rule should be you can change picks till deadline or 10 mins after last manager submits his pick whichever is earlier.

It also becomes incentive not to be last. Inform last manager that his pick his final and proceed.

A simple picks frozen announced in thread should do it.
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Or just don't submit a pick until you're ready?
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
I pity MJJ. Since it's through PM, I would have expected mods to use their discretion better. Difference between hope and ruin for a team here. Poor MJJ.
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The rules were stated before we really got underway.

If a manager has selected a player that doesn't meet the requirements, or can't see that a player has already been picked, why is it the mods fault they didn't properly check?

Then it's not fair to everyone else who spent that time researching properly for them to get a free pass.

As for being able to change your mind up to a deadline...just no. Is that making it easier for the mods? Sure. It's a pain in the fecking arse keeping track of all the picks and blocks as it is..not to mention if 10 people decide to change their mind 3 times.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
I pity MJJ. Since it's through PM, I would have expected mods to use their discretion better. Difference between hope and ruin for a team here. Poor MJJ.
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That sucks. If you agree on rules, stick to it and don't start making exceptions behind everyone's back. It would be like telling your opponent in a chess game that he made a mistake and should be allowed to take the move back.
 
Skizzo said:
The rules were stated before we really got underway.

If a manager has selected a player that doesn't meet the requirements, or can't see that a player has already been picked, why is it the mods fault they didn't properly check?

Then it's not fair to everyone else who spent that time researching properly for them to get a free pass.

As for being able to change your mind up to a deadline...just no. Is that making it easier for the mods? Sure. It's a pain in the fecking arse keeping track of all the picks and blocks as it is..not to mention if 10 people decide to change their mind 3 times.
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Balu said:
That sucks. If you agree on rules, stick to it and don't start making exceptions behind everyone's back. It would be like telling your opponent in a chess game that he made a mistake and should be allowed to take the move back.
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Apologies, that came out all wrong. It was not meant as a criticism, but just a opinion different mods run games differently. As balu mentions it is for future, if there was a vote, I would have voted dropping that rule henceforth.

Personally for me, a draft rule's purpose is to prevent disputes and makes game play better. As long as both are achieved, I don't see rules as a rigid wall here or bending them as a evil here. "Submissions are final" should be the norm, but rule should be flexible enough to allow exception chances "before the last pick". Except for a bit extra care on mods, it adds so much value to managers as every satisfied pick they make enhances the game experience. It becomes all the more crucial in cases like MJJ as a 3rd sheep may effectively would end his interest as the team becomes un-winnable at that moment. A bit of discretion (even better as it's through PM's) there makes a big difference with no downside.

As I said before, there are no right or wrong in these decisions, but just how mods choose to run their games. Don't mean to criticize here.
 
No need to apologise :) At least I understood that it was aimed at the discussion I started and didn't take it as criticism.

Edgar Allan Pillow said:
It becomes all the more crucial in cases like MJJ as a 3rd sheep may effectively would end his interest as the team becomes un-winnable at that moment.
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The case was in a 2nd stage, his change would have blocked another player and forced both managers into a 3rd attempt. Allowing him to change the pick would have had a massive impact.

It really felt wrong at the time, so I kinda agree with you that it sucks. I don't agree that we should allow changes in a case like that when the rule was that 'no changes are allowed'. It's either 'allow changes until the last pick is submitted' or 'no changes at all'. I don't really see a middle way without it causing a lot of problems.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Apologies, that came out all wrong. It was not meant as a criticism, but just a opinion different mods run games differently. As balu mentions it is for future, if there was a vote, I would have voted dropping that rule henceforth.

Personally for me, a draft rule's purpose is to prevent disputes and makes game play better. As long as both are achieved, I don't see rules as a rigid wall here or bending them as a evil here. "Submissions are final" should be the norm, but rule should be flexible enough to allow exception chances "before the last pick". Except for a bit extra care on mods, it adds so much value to managers as every satisfied pick they make enhances the game experience. It becomes all the more crucial in cases like MJJ as a 3rd sheep may effectively would end his interest as the team becomes un-winnable at that moment. A bit of discretion (even better as it's through PM's) there makes a big difference with no downside.

As I said before, there are no right or wrong in these decisions, but just how mods choose to run their games. Don't mean to criticize here.
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My response may have come off a little snappy. It's 4am here, and I'm still sick...so my response may have been a bit heavy handed :lol:

From the manager point of view, I definitely understand the benefit and/or advantage of being able to change a pick up until the final moments of a deadline, but looking at it from the mod side in this case...especially in a case like this when 16 people could potentially submit 3 picks each, with sometimes multiple picks a round...a potential 570 or so picks? (I'll wait for some math wiz to come correct my numbers on this...hastily done in a haggard state) Having a manager then be able to submit a pick, then change it multiple times can cause even more headaches.

It might seem strict in this case, but we've tried to apply it consistently across all managers. We were criticized in regards to the manager event by possibly favouring one manager's trade over anothers...so having situations where we might allow managers to change picks in some instances..just opens up more issues.
 
Skizzo said:
My response may have come off a little snappy. It's 4am here, and I'm still sick...so my response may have been a bit heavy handed :lol:
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I was just about to post something like 'shouldn't you be in bed and sleeping to get healthy again' :lol:. Might be a good idea ;)
 
And now im off for 3 hours of quality sleep before waking up for the match, followed by being a miserable bastard all day before finally falling asleep mid-afternoon again.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Apologies, that came out all wrong. It was not meant as a criticism, but just a opinion different mods run games differently. As balu mentions it is for future, if there was a vote, I would have voted dropping that rule henceforth.

Personally for me, a draft rule's purpose is to prevent disputes and makes game play better. As long as both are achieved, I don't see rules as a rigid wall here or bending them as a evil here. "Submissions are final" should be the norm, but rule should be flexible enough to allow exception chances "before the last pick". Except for a bit extra care on mods, it adds so much value to managers as every satisfied pick they make enhances the game experience. It becomes all the more crucial in cases like MJJ as a 3rd sheep may effectively would end his interest as the team becomes un-winnable at that moment. A bit of discretion (even better as it's through PM's) there makes a big difference with no downside.

As I said before, there are no right or wrong in these decisions, but just how mods choose to run their games. Don't mean to criticize here.
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In the British draft, I made numerous mistakes.. I also made some here because as a first timer, I had no clue what an auction draft is like, and I didn't quite grasp the concept of a Sheep draft until the second round, but the need for strict rules is pivotal in order for the game to move at a good speed. Like skizzo mentioned, it would be a serious pain in the arse for the mods to have to keep going back and forth.. tracking people's messages. I know from my experience I go back and forth on players throughout an entire day, imagine if I was allowed to keep submitting every time i went back on a choice.

it helps us as players too, so we just pick a player and stick to it. Also it isn't too hard to keep track of who has been picked before. just go back a few pages. @Skizzo .. can we ensure threadmarks are kept up with.. really useful way to keep track of latest squads.
 
Okay, I'm semi-pleased to have got him, @antohan I hope you won't hate me for this pick, I think he fits well in my formation but I really didn't have the time to research at all(haven't even thought of Romario).
Like Boris I assume, a pretty safe pick
 
Raees said:
In the British draft, I made numerous mistakes.. I also made some here because as a first timer, I had no clue what an auction draft is like, and I didn't quite grasp the concept of a Sheep draft until the second round, but the need for strict rules is pivotal in order for the game to move at a good speed. Like skizzo mentioned, it would be a serious pain in the arse for the mods to have to keep going back and forth.. tracking people's messages. I know from my experience I go back and forth on players throughout an entire day, imagine if I was allowed to keep submitting every time i went back on a choice.

it helps us as players too, so we just pick a player and stick to it. Also it isn't too hard to keep track of who has been picked before. just go back a few pages. @Skizzo .. can we ensure threadmarks are kept up with.. really useful way to keep track of latest squads.
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Yeah I'll PM Damien today with all the page links to see if he can threadmark them at his convenience.
 
Balu said:
I don't agree that we should allow changes in a case like that when the rule was that 'no changes are allowed'. It's either 'allow changes until the last pick is submitted' or 'no changes at all'.
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Skizzo said:
It might seem strict in this case, but we've tried to apply it consistently across all managers. We were criticized in regards to the manager event by possibly favouring one manager's trade over anothers
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Look, as I said, you made it a rule in this match and I don't have any issues with that being implemented. Makes sense.
I was arguing about future matches part and I believe the right way should be "allow changes till last pick is submitted". You can add a warning to prevent misuse.
 
Raees said:
I had no clue what an auction draft is like,
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It varies between drafts. In auction the 'bids cannot be reversed' is a golden rule and should be implemented with no exceptions. Bending that will only ruin a draft. Again, I was not after skizzo/balu for enforcing the rule here, but rather arguing the rule should be changed and made flexible in future drafts.
 
Skizzo said:
Oh if its just the team lists you want, I'll try and keep that updated separately...it would be a pain in the arse for Damien to have to come in and threadmark each time they get updated.
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You could just edit the team list and blocked player list into the op after each round. That's easy to access for everyone.
 
Skizzo said:
Oh if its just the team lists you want, I'll try and keep that updated separately...it would be a pain in the arse for Damien to have to come in and threadmark each time they get updated.
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No.. its nice to see the different criteria for future reference too, but yeah priority is updated squads so as long as that is being done - its fine. Or do what @Balu suggested.
 
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