Funny you should mention that, Ducker claims that he's part of a quartet we want to secure by the end of summer, along with Lindelof, Griezemann and Semendo.
The search for a holding/controlling midfielder
- Thread starter bosnian_red
- Start date
May I ask what games you were watching of Nice? I had the impression that Cyprien is a box-to-box player, who isn't sitting deep at all? He's certainly a good passer. Seri seems to be the most defensive of the midfield 3.
Dahoud and Goretzka play as a #8 as well, not a #6. Tolisso for the most part as well.
Mohamoud Dahoud or FIFA legend Tonny Vilhenna
Amen
No, Seri is on the right of their midfield three and the best assist maker, but they all push forward.
Currently Nice play like that:
Walter--------Seri
-------Cyprien
But their are games where Cyprien played as a #8 and even one as #10.
That's quite odd ha.
I've been trying to watch as many Monaco games as possible this season and this guy really stands out.
Him and Fabinho absolutely dominated the Spurs midfield a few weeks back.
That's not what I've seen and it's certainly not true for the game against PSG. Seri has the most assists because he's their set piece taker, nothing to do with his position.
I'll ask again, can you point me to a game where Cyprien played as a deep-lying playmaker? I haven't seen any.
He actually played there against PSG, monaco, Guingamp and most of the games in 3-5-2 but he played higher in the 4231.
This is what I said in my previous post. There have been games where Seri has been playing CDM and Cyprien box to box. But in more recent weeks, I'm fairly they've switched roles. You're right about the PSG game that Seri played CDM, but I'm fairly sure against Dijon and Toulouse amongst others, Cyprien did.
You know that you actually made me doubt, but even Nice said that he played infront of the defense. But to go in your sense, he thinks that he can play all the roles in midfield and his favorite is #8 because he likes to go forward.
With Weigl signing a new contract, making a transfer next summer unlikely i would consider Tielemans instead.
This guy is more of an #8, but with his style of play he could be the new Verratti/Xavi type of playmaker.
Find a more defensive minded #6, with a decent short passing game and let Tielemans take the role of the playmaker. This would allow Pogba to still work his magic in the left sided area.
Of course this would make Herrera more of a rotation option, but Tielemans will need to time to adjust so he would still get a lot of playing time.
This guy is more of an #8, but with his style of play he could be the new Verratti/Xavi type of playmaker.
Find a more defensive minded #6, with a decent short passing game and let Tielemans take the role of the playmaker. This would allow Pogba to still work his magic in the left sided area.
Of course this would make Herrera more of a rotation option, but Tielemans will need to time to adjust so he would still get a lot of playing time.
If he wants to play there, then he certainly has the talent to do so. I'd prefer him to Bakayoko to be honest.
Well, watching Bordeaux against Nice and again, Seri is playing as the deepest midfielder with Koziello and Cyprien in front of him. Since Seri pushes forward quite often, Cyprien or Koziello drop deeper from time to time. Almost seems like their positions aren't defined.
Edit: Worth pointing out that Cyprien completed 73 of his 74 passes during the first half
Edit: Worth pointing out that Cyprien completed 73 of his 74 passes during the first half
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How was he in the second half? Did he play deeper or did Seri continue to be the deepest
Joe Allen. Boyhood United fan and has been playing good this season.
The same as in the first half. Seri, Sarr and him were the best players for Nice. Plea should have taken some of his chances and they would have won the game.
I'd be happy enough with either of Weigl or Strootman I think. Looking at their stats this season, neither as strong as Carrick defensively but Weigl may be a little better with the ball.
The defensive work is largely down to Carricks experience and understanding of the game. That's going to be almost impossible to buy in a player of 25-30.
We don't even need strootman when we set a new transfer record for Pogba, defiantly that playmaker in the carrick mould is what Jose is going for now, since he has found out that yeah 433 with the key players we have is the way to go. It just shows when herrera and pogba are left off the leash with carrick anchoring do we look the best
hope this isn't a serious suggestion. Also, as if him being shite wasn't enough, he's spent the season playing as a #10.Bless you?
Bless me what?
Cotton socks?
Well, one of the Croatians should be available. I do think they are our best bet.
Modric - Just give it a try. You never know.
Rakitic - He can play that position really, really well.
Kovacic - Madrid are slowly grooming him into the next Modric. Has improved significantly this year. Only 21.
If not them, then Kross.
Between Modric, Kovacic and Kross I am sure we can get one of them.
Madrid sold Xabi Alonso to Bayern when Xabi still wasnt too old and had a lot to give.
Just give it shot. They have 3 players that we can really use.
Modric - Just give it a try. You never know.
Rakitic - He can play that position really, really well.
Kovacic - Madrid are slowly grooming him into the next Modric. Has improved significantly this year. Only 21.
If not them, then Kross.
Between Modric, Kovacic and Kross I am sure we can get one of them.
Madrid sold Xabi Alonso to Bayern when Xabi still wasnt too old and had a lot to give.
Just give it shot. They have 3 players that we can really use.
Yeah, Seri was starting on the left but was replacing himself as the deepest midfielder then he would switch with one of the other. But Seri was almost always the first to regain his defensive position.
I think, from past experience, we should avoid moving for players from Barca, Madrid and Bayern that they don't want to get rid of, as it won't end well.
People didn't want Carrick because he wasn't like Keane.
I imagine many of the same people don't want Bakayoko because he's not like Carrick (and if anything, more like Keane).
I also imagine the same people will post next week that they wish we had signed Kanté (who of course, is nothing like Carrick).
I can see the same thing happening with centre-forward. People will put this ridiculous English over-obsession with pace (which I'm surprised hasn't included goalkeepers and even coaches by now!) aside now, and start looking at strikers who can be like Zlatan - however, before, Zlatan was a no-go as he's not a sprinter.
I imagine many of the same people don't want Bakayoko because he's not like Carrick (and if anything, more like Keane).
I also imagine the same people will post next week that they wish we had signed Kanté (who of course, is nothing like Carrick).
I can see the same thing happening with centre-forward. People will put this ridiculous English over-obsession with pace (which I'm surprised hasn't included goalkeepers and even coaches by now!) aside now, and start looking at strikers who can be like Zlatan - however, before, Zlatan was a no-go as he's not a sprinter.
Bakayoko isn't even a DM let alone like Carrick though, that's the thing, he's not in the same role never mind the same style, he plays Ander's role. We need an orchestrator, he doesn't need to be a Carrick clone but he needs some of the same qualities to get the best from Pogba and Herrera and keep the balance of the midfield.
Many will tell you Carrick is not a 'DM' (I've seen that for years on here) on the basis that he can pass I imagine. A theory for the first five years on here was that he was being wasted and should be played further forward.
I don't purport to be an expert on Bakayoko at all, my issue is neither are most complainants, they have likely read another post of attributes, and feel he is not the man, based that it isn't identical with Carrick's.
As I said, I reckon the majority of the caf would love to sign Kanté. He doesn't really fit into any logical consensus other than the fact that 'he's good'.
I think the reason some don't think Carrick is a DM is due to him not crunching people, especially English fans, the notion of defending by preventing danger rather than tackling it is lost at times.
The thing with Bakayoko is you don't need to be an expert to know his position, people have just jumped on the fact he's a CM that he must be eyed as a Carrick replacement, when a quick search on him will show you he's not even the DM in his team.
The problem for me is that every couple of pages someone brings up the Keane/Carrick thing, like it's chiseled in stone about going polar opposite, and the thing is that is wrong as well, Keane wasn't as an expansive as Carrick but he was an excellent passer from deep and consistent at it as well, he wasn't some 1 dimensional destroyer that some seem to think he was, he was just way more agressive than Carrick. The reason many of us want a player that is at least in the ballpark of Carrick is because for 4 seasons it's been clear as the way to get the best out of Pogba, had we not bought him I wouldn't be so bothered myself, but when we have and are reaping the benefits of mirroring the Juve system, to not build on that makes no sense.
More one great prospect for the future, Amadou Diawara from Napoli, it is not the final product, but if I am not wrong in the next 2 years big clubs will go after him.
Do we really NEED a holding midfielder? Uniteds best years, we didn't have one.
I would love to see us go back to the 442. Leicester won the league with it, so why not us? We're never gonna be Barcelona so why try and play like them? Do it the United way. No "holding midfielders", no "number 10s"... just two pacey wingers, two tough CMs and a good strike partnership up top. I think Martial and Ibra up top would be immense.
I would love to see us go back to the 442. Leicester won the league with it, so why not us? We're never gonna be Barcelona so why try and play like them? Do it the United way. No "holding midfielders", no "number 10s"... just two pacey wingers, two tough CMs and a good strike partnership up top. I think Martial and Ibra up top would be immense.
Because we want to win the CL as well, and Leicester was a fluke, an anomally of a season. We also don't have players for 4-4-2, we don't have any wingers but we do have excellent inside forwards and #10's, plus Ibra doesn't play with a partner and Pogba is at his best in a 3 man midfield, trying to play 4-4-2 is going against the stregths of our best players..
The players we have are miles away from being able to play that set up though. Even if we didn't have a holding midfielder per se we'd still need to play with three midfielders. Pogba as one of the two in a 4-2-2 would make my eyes hurt.
Besides, it's not like SAF always played 4-4-2 either, so I'm not sure that particular aspect of the "united way" you're reffering to really has currency.
Sir Alex's main formation was a 442 though. He usually always played with top up top... Cantona/McClair, Yorke/Cole, Rooney with Tevez/Berba/Chicharito/Saha/Ruud/RVP/etc.
Seems like everyone wants to see us play like Barcelona but the truth is, we can never play that way. Its in their DNA. The Man Utd DNA is the English way of playing. We should stick to our roots cause it got us this far.
Pogba could definitely work in a 442. If we have wingers who can track back, it'll be more effective. Is Herrera his ideal partner? I'm not sure. I think Schneiderlin would be more effective alongside him in a 442. His attributes suit that system better.
What a gem of a player he is. Could easily become one of those 'why didn't we sign him while he was at Sociedad?' players.
It's important to play as per the DNA of the manager IMO otherwise it would be very difficult to find one that fits a rigid club structure. Barcelona make it work ( sticking to a semi flexible system), because their "way" is actually in line with the direction football has gone in. SAFs 442 or the 442 we've been successful implementing over the years is something barely anyone can make work anymore. So how do you stick by a system very few managers today are used to?
http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-F...n-new-years-eve-clash-with-middlesbrough.aspx
3rd paragraph is a clear hint
3rd paragraph is a clear hint
We're signing Yaya and Firmino.http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-F...n-new-years-eve-clash-with-middlesbrough.aspx
3rd paragraph is a clear hint
Annoying that just about when we're in the market for a holding\controlling mid there is absolutely no candidate available.
Plenty of box-box midfielders around though, and we'll need one of those as well.
Plenty of box-box midfielders around though, and we'll need one of those as well.