I'd love Modric but he is crucial for Real and I don't think we will be able to convice him or the club to make that transfer now. Maybay in 2 years it could happen. But now you would have to go north of 100 million to buy a 31 year old midfielder and make him one of the biggest earners on the planet and even then I think we hardly stand a chance at getting him. Modric ship has sailed, left the harbor, hit an iceberg and is lying on the bottom of the ocean now. Should have bought him when he was playing well for spurs and we needed replacing Scholes but yea that story has been told to death but these kind of things still really bug me of the last years of SAF. Right under our nose, so obvious, in a position where we are also a top destination as title winners year in year out, the natural replacement for someone like Scholes and SAF just ignores it. He may have won us alot of titles in those years but neglecting that midfield is certainly costing us now.
The search for a holding/controlling midfielder
- Thread starter bosnian_red
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I'd love Modric but he is crucial for Real and I don't think we will be able to convice him or the club to make that transfer now. Maybay in 2 years it could happen. But now you would have to go north of 100 million to buy a 31 year old midfielder and make him one of the biggest earners on the planet and even then I think we hardly stand a chance at getting him. Modric ship has sailed, left the harbor, hit an iceberg and is lying on the bottom of the ocean now. Should have bought him when he was playing well for spurs and we needed replacing Scholes but yea that story has been told to death but these kind of things still really bug me of the last years of SAF. Right under our nose, so obvious, in a position where we are also a top destination as title winners year in year out, the natural replacement for someone like Scholes and SAF just ignores it. He may have won us alot of titles in those years but neglecting that midfield is certainly costing us now.
@The red panther there's a lot to comment there. I may be assuming here, but the goals from midfield seems to be a big argument that you're putting across here. I don't know how many goals Chelsea have from midfield. Our wingers should be contributing more, rather than our CMs imo. They're the issue. Pogba has as many as Martial and Rashford. So should Martial and Rashford be scoring more? Yes, imo.
Our midfield isn't banging them in, but neither is our attack, bar Zlatan.
Of course this all comes from my assumption that your argument for goals from midfield being an issue.
Our midfield isn't banging them in, but neither is our attack, bar Zlatan.
Of course this all comes from my assumption that your argument for goals from midfield being an issue.
Yes that is my main issue with the midfield
Wingers aren't scoring that is certainly a problem but it is a different problem that also needs to be solved. However here I think we just need to play Mkhitaryan who has been growing in form and hope that Martial gets into form soon. We also need to stop playing Rashford there as he just isn't a winger, he is a pure striker and he needs to play centrally. Either together with Zlatan or instead of Zlatan (as a sub).
However it is unrelated to the problem that midfield isn't scoring either and then I look at our formation and I see a 3 man midfield with Pogba as advanced midfielder and I say if you play him there, he is actually a 10 and he needs to score more than he has been doing. My solution for that is to play Pogba as a 8 and play Mata as a 10 or play with 2 strikers.
I'd say our team currently has 4 problems:
- Wingers aren't contributing to goals/assists bar Mkhitaryan
- Midfield isn't contributing to goals/assists
- Build up from centrebacks is too slow with Jones and Rojo
- Leftback plays very poor with Darmian
- Excellent at controlling the midfield and the game
- Defending very well
- Striker is scoring but only when Zlatan plays and keeps his form
- Rightback has been playing excellent
@The red panther I agree with your problems and things we do well section. But it's still the idea of Pogba as a number 10 or furthest forward. I think heat maps show Herrera and Pogba playing on very similar areas on their own sides of the pitch. I wouldn't say Herrera is playing as a 10, and I wouldn't say Pogba is playing as a 10. Especially in the context of you suggesting Griezmann as a future 10 because Griezmann's heat map wouldn't be anything close to Pogba's, but you state them both as 10s. I'm sorry I'm not linking these as I'm on mobile, a bit a quick google of Griezmann's, Pogba's or Ozil's (as your archetypal 10) are very very different. Pogbas is more B2B and Griezman's and Ozil's are quite similar. Hence my belief, Pogba is not playing as a 10 or even as the most advanced, when you compare Herrera to him.
Pogba has outscored Herrera by 5 so far this season. So Pogba scoring isn't the issue, it's the rest of the midfield, which is Herrera really as Carrick won't be hitting 5-10 all of a sudden. And playing Pogba in a 2 will hinder that goal tally, imo, rather then help it. And that opinion is based on Pogba's entire career so far, not just his time here.
I think a 20+ striker, one or two on 10-15 goals and a midfielder or 2 on 5-10 is a good balance for a title challenging squad. We're good for the striker (Zlatan), we're good for the midfielder (Pogba and Mikhi). It's the 10-15 goals were lacking, and those roles belong to the Martials, Rashford and the Rooney's.
Pogba has outscored Herrera by 5 so far this season. So Pogba scoring isn't the issue, it's the rest of the midfield, which is Herrera really as Carrick won't be hitting 5-10 all of a sudden. And playing Pogba in a 2 will hinder that goal tally, imo, rather then help it. And that opinion is based on Pogba's entire career so far, not just his time here.
I think a 20+ striker, one or two on 10-15 goals and a midfielder or 2 on 5-10 is a good balance for a title challenging squad. We're good for the striker (Zlatan), we're good for the midfielder (Pogba and Mikhi). It's the 10-15 goals were lacking, and those roles belong to the Martials, Rashford and the Rooney's.
Rooney and Lingard assisted against West Brom.
Pogba scored a goal and assisted against Crystal Palace.
Herrera assisted the goal against Tottenham
We are playing with a new formation and it seems to benefit our players.
The real issue is, What are we going to do if Carrick or Zlatan get's injured?
Pogba scored a goal and assisted against Crystal Palace.
Herrera assisted the goal against Tottenham
We are playing with a new formation and it seems to benefit our players.
The real issue is, What are we going to do if Carrick or Zlatan get's injured?
Could someone please tell me abit about Cyprien, watched a few YouTube vids but only highlights his goals. What kind of midfielder are we talking about and who does he play like
Liquidate the club.
Finally give Blind his chance perhaps, or let Bastian have a run, maybe just let Ander play out from the back and just have a defensive player with him, so many people try and find a replacement for Carrick, a like for like player, but i don't think having a Carrick style player is completely necessary. As for Zlatan, obviously we would need Rashford, Rooney or Martial to step up big time, hopefully Mkhi can stay fit and keep banging in goals.
What about David Alaba? I know it would be almost impossible to get him but there have been rumours going around that we are looking at him. If you had told me this before, I wouldn't have believed this but after Pogba, I guess anything is possible.
It will solve a lot of problem if pogba can learn how to play in a midfield two.
Yeah but what was the point of paying 90 million for a player only to play him outside of his position?
Well I expect him to adapt.He has all the attributes to play in a midfield two apart from discipline which I expect will come.Chelsea won the title with fabregas in midfield.If he can adapt then finding a destroyer type of midfielder like matic will be lot easier to find than to replace carrick.
But mate you don't spend that amount of money and expect a player to adapt to other system than in which he excells.
When you spend that amount of money on a player than you ought to build your system in order to benefit that player and bring out the best from him.
With that being said, what about Luiz Gustavo? 29 years old, has great passing, he's tall, noy a pushover, he's defensively sound experience playing in Bayern and Wolfsburg and Brazil national squad.
Considering the condition Wolfsburg is in ATM, we can get him for small amount and get few good years out of him.
I think Mourinho wants a type of player like Danilo Pereira. A tall, strong, intercepting midfielder.
Rakitic.
He's not really a controlling midfielder, he plays the role that Herrera plays at a higher standard.
Every day. You should too.
I wouldn't be surprised if we sign this Swedish CB that he will play with maybe Jones or Smalling and Bailly will move into the holding midfielder role ...
I totally agree this lad shone on the defensive midfield role in the reserves if like to see him being played more
Why? We need to stop with this thing of playing people out ofd position, Bailly is decent on the ball for a CB but not for a sustained role as the orchestrator in a 3 man midfield.
Maybe Cabaye? Until we find exactly what we're looking for. I mean Cabaye can be a great member of the team for at least 3 or 4 years down the road, starting or not.
And he can be our holding midfielder.
Weren't we rumored to be in the running for Matuidi last summer as well? That would be a more permanent position. Not exactly a holding/controling midfielder but loke many have said, Mourinho might just be looking for more of a destroyer type anyway.
I would get Cabaye anyway. Shouldn't be too expensive. Provides exactly what we need. Has another 4-5 years in him.
And he can be our holding midfielder.
Weren't we rumored to be in the running for Matuidi last summer as well? That would be a more permanent position. Not exactly a holding/controling midfielder but loke many have said, Mourinho might just be looking for more of a destroyer type anyway.
I would get Cabaye anyway. Shouldn't be too expensive. Provides exactly what we need. Has another 4-5 years in him.
I'm not saying I want it to happen I'd just be suprised if we sign a CB for that kind of money in January.
We have 4/5 CB already and the defensive midfield is a role we need to fill
I don't think Jose sees Blind as a CB and I wouldn't be at all surprised if one of the current 4 is sold come the summer as Jose molds the defense from his own selections.
I think we could see quite a few being sold in January. I will be suprised if we don't sign a LB and a defensive midfielder in this window
If we were to sign Matuidi he's more suited to playing in Herrera's position.
I like Matuidi, would have loved for us to have signed him at one stage, but I think that ship has sailed. He's more than a destroyer in my opinion, quite good at getting forward and supporting the play.
Idrissa Gueye anyone? He's been super impressive this season. Playing like a cross between Gattuso and Essien.
Very good player so far this season, but I think we need someone who is a passer first and tackler second.
Have we even been linked with anyone of this type?
When I've seen Gladbach, he's always a #8. Would be a wonderful purchase regardless
Yeah i realised the same after posting that. We need someone to replace Carrick, and Gueye in a way would fit Herrera's role more.
But say, if we do decide to give someone like Perreira a shot then a player like Gueye would fit in well alongside Pogba and Perreira.
Whoever we get need to be top quality on the ball, Gueye isn't. Our midfiield 3 works so well because all 3 are technically very good and can recieve and pass the ball with ease, keeping the team constantly moving. Carrick's importance isn't just his defensive positioning, it's his consistent, accurate passing through the lines that allows Herrera and Pogba to maintain a higher position and press on the opposition, as they don't have to keep dropping deep to get the ball.
To be honest, Rooney getting that assist is a joke, he contributed to that goal as much as I did watching it on TV...
Manuel Locatelli anyone?
He seems to be a decent talent, defensively sound, physically imposing, good passing ability and a good head on him at a young age. OR is it unrealistic to expect him to not want to become an Italian legend with Milan?
He seems to be a decent talent, defensively sound, physically imposing, good passing ability and a good head on him at a young age. OR is it unrealistic to expect him to not want to become an Italian legend with Milan?
He's definitely talented, but given Carrick's age and Schweinsteiger's impending departure, in my view the club should be looking for someone further along in their development, to slot-in almost immediately this summer.
Jorginho already plays as the deepest midfielder in a 4-3-3 and has proven himself to have the requisite passing range to dictate the tempo of the game. With Verratti, Kroos, Koke and Weigl likely to be unavailable (at least in the short-to-medium term), I think he is our best option at this moment.
How's William Carvalho not at a bigger club by now? He reminds me of Carrick in the way he plays.
Finally we've been linked to someone to replace Carrick - Tiemoue Bakayoko (22) of Monaco. Now after all these pages which of you suggested him?
Cabaye is dogshite.
I'd like us to go for the Monaco midfielder Bakayoko. Seriously good young central midfielder who's been one of the reasons for Monaco's brilliant form this season.
Edit- I didn't see the comment above!