Idrissa gueye of everton and Nzonzi are few players that i think can replace carrick role.
The search for a holding/controlling midfielder
- Thread starter bosnian_red
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Not a chance, neither of them has the passing range. Gueye especially is terrible at passing.
With no like for like replacement for Carrick available I can see Mourinho signing a destroyer to play next to Pogba and go back to the 4-2-3-1 formation.
United 17/18
DDG
Valencia Bailly Jones Shaw
Destroyer Pogba
Mkhitaryan Griezmann Martial
Zlatan
DDG
Valencia Bailly Jones Shaw
Destroyer Pogba
Mkhitaryan Griezmann Martial
Zlatan
Well, if we look at Chelsea under Mou, it was a player like Matic, Mikel, and Ramires in that role IIRC to play opposite Essien or Fabregas. Those 3 all had a bit more about them than being a "destroyer", in my humble opinion. We may have missed a beat not snapping up Kanye from Leicester.
He is kante type of player. He did the dirty job and let players like hazard, costa and pedro/willian do their magic.
Of course the player can and probably should have more qualities than just being a destroyer. What I meant was that I think he will be looking mainly for a player with defensive qualities to play next to Pogba in a midfield two, one who can sit back and protect the back four when Pogba goes forward. If the player has other qualities it is of course just a plus. Kante in fact would probably be close to the perfect player for the role.
The fluidity of our current midfield 3 has taken me by surprise, to be honest. Pogba will often go wide left and Herrera will often go wide right. Both will drop deep next to the DM when the ball is on the opposite wing. As such, we're not playing under Mourinho's traditional paradigm of a holding midfielder+B2B+AM. This is something different entirely and might lend itself to a different kind of replacement for Carrick.
3 all-round midfielders could work very well as long as they have defined roles depending on where the ball is. That's where a Gerrard/Lampard midfield fell short. I don't see that being an issue here when you have runner as selfless as Herrera in the side.
I've not seen much of Bakayoko, but I can see how a player of his profile might fit into the side. TFM would work there as well, once he's ready.
3 all-round midfielders could work very well as long as they have defined roles depending on where the ball is. That's where a Gerrard/Lampard midfield fell short. I don't see that being an issue here when you have runner as selfless as Herrera in the side.
I've not seen much of Bakayoko, but I can see how a player of his profile might fit into the side. TFM would work there as well, once he's ready.
What did Mourinho play at Madrid?
We are always talking about his style of football at Chelsea, but he operated differently at Madrid, if I'm not mistaken?
It was Xabi Alonso at Madrid, so I don't see why we should think he wants a destroyer for that role.
He has tried Herrera and Fellaini before Carrick, but more Herrera than Fellaini.
We are always talking about his style of football at Chelsea, but he operated differently at Madrid, if I'm not mistaken?
It was Xabi Alonso at Madrid, so I don't see why we should think he wants a destroyer for that role.
He has tried Herrera and Fellaini before Carrick, but more Herrera than Fellaini.
Paredes seems to be almost the perfect option. He seems to be slightly more mobile that Weigl, is excellent technically and is great at passing forward. Every time he gets the ball he seems to want to pass forward. Naturally he seems to sit deepest in midfield (even deeper than Strootman) too. It does seem like he's not as defensively great as he could be, but he's got plenty of time to iron those mistakes out.
I really think we ought to get him, and have him rotate with Carrick. If he messes up occasionally Herrera can help him out now that Herrera is more defensively solid than he used to be.
I really think we ought to get him, and have him rotate with Carrick. If he messes up occasionally Herrera can help him out now that Herrera is more defensively solid than he used to be.
He hasn't set the world alight yet, but for a decent price, we should consider Kranevitter of Atletico (currently on loan at Sevilla)
In the absolute worst case, I can see him being a good rotation option for our DM plus he has some experience at CB so he can slide in there when needed
In the absolute worst case, I can see him being a good rotation option for our DM plus he has some experience at CB so he can slide in there when needed
for a 19 year old, he was very impressive as a 6 against Fiorentina, which is the one time I've seen him.
Are there any Porto watchers who can give an update on Neves? The crying on the bench incident aside, how has he looked lately?
Watching Bilbao-Barca and Iturraspe looks quite sharp as a passing 6. Lovely vision, good size, tons of experience, 27 years old is basically entering your prime as a 6. Couple Spanish caps as a midfielder since 2014 and in the 2014 La Liga team of the year.
Obviously Bilbao don't sell and 45m clause is high, but it's not crazy if he can be gotten for 30 and plays 5-6 years here. Salary might not be crazy either.
Obviously Bilbao don't sell and 45m clause is high, but it's not crazy if he can be gotten for 30 and plays 5-6 years here. Salary might not be crazy either.
I agree, I mentioned him in another thread, he plays like Carrick, he would be the ideal replacement IMO.
Weigl would be the one I'd like to see come in.
What do people think of Jorginho? He looked pretty good in the Youtube clips I've seen but that only shows what he does well and not his flaws.
Iturraspe's a player I've been watching, and agree that he's a candidate if the 'fantasy' options (Verratti and Weigl) dont materialise. I dont think 45m Euros is actually that high (around £38m). That's the going rate for a very good midfielder when an English team is involved, if you take Fellaini for £28m, Schnederlin for £25m, Kante for £30m+. I recall Bayern had to pay 40m for Javi Martinez. Another option is Trigueros at Villareal, whose having a really good season.
Seems to me a limited player every time I've watched him. More of a ball winner rather than the composed passer we need.
Isn't Trigueros more of an 8? He might fit the Herrera/Pogba cover man we need, though Maybe mourinho will favor a more physical type. But yeah, a 25 year old at Villarreal and apparently having a fine season, through I see he signed a long deal a month ago and his clause is now high at 40m.
Have you seen Ignacio Camacho lately? I haven't seen Malaga in a long time but his whoscored ratings are always strong, he's 26, came on for Busquets as Spain's 6 last year once and he's at a a club we could obviously poach from.
If we can't get Veratti or Weigl, I think the best option is to find some 26-28 year old at a midtable side in Spain or Germany who is ready to enter his prime as a 6 (up there with keeper for latest prime, positionally). Might not get a star that way, but I'm not sure there's one out there apart from the above names. Who are the highest rated young 6s out there apart from them? Geis? Diawara? The media seems to think we want Bakayoko from Monaco. He didn't stand out technically when I saw them against Spurs, but he looked the part athletically and his whoscored ratings suggest he's basically a monster. I'll try to catch them in the CL or against PSG to have an overly confident opinion based on small sample size.
I think you might like my boy Asier Illarramendi.
He's 26 years old has featured a lot in Spain sub 17 and sub 21 teams. He plays in Real Sociedad and was in Real Madrid for 2 seasons and before his transfer to Real Madrid he was rated very high (people talked about him as the next Xabi Alonso) and this season he looks back at that level where he got so much praise. His team is having a good season battling for top 4 spots along the likes of Sevilla, Villarreal and Atlético de Madrid and are playing some good stuff and he's one of their best talents. He does have some traits and a style reminiscent to Alonso and I think if he keeps up like this he could be important for Spain national team.
I think you might like my boy Asier Illarramendi.
He's 26 years old has featured a lot in Spain sub 17 and sub 21 teams. He plays in Real Sociedad and was in Real Madrid for 2 seasons and before his transfer to Real Madrid he was rated very high (people talked about him as the next Xabi Alonso) and this season he looks back at that level where he got so much praise. His team is having a good season battling for top 4 spots along the likes of Sevilla, Villarreal and Atlético de Madrid and are playing some good stuff and he's one of their best talents. He does have some traits and a style reminiscent to Alonso and I think if he keeps up like this he could be important for Spain national team.
Pronunciation guide for you Brits:
PSG have a couple options we could try. Adrien Rabiot seems to have a decent range of passing and he might work as a deep-lying playmaker. He's also 6'2", so tall enough to help win the ball in the air. I don't know if he's a more attacking mided central midfielder however. I suppose the defensive aspect of his game could be coached well by Mourinho, and he's only 21.
Alternatively Gregorz Krychowiak who seems out of favor over there. He hasn't impressed much this season but my understanding is that he was outstanding for Sevilla so maybe he can come in and give the back four a good shield. I think we could get him as well, I don't think Unai Emery will last the season if results continue to be underwhelming in which case the new manager might not fancy him.
Alternatively Gregorz Krychowiak who seems out of favor over there. He hasn't impressed much this season but my understanding is that he was outstanding for Sevilla so maybe he can come in and give the back four a good shield. I think we could get him as well, I don't think Unai Emery will last the season if results continue to be underwhelming in which case the new manager might not fancy him.
What's up with Franck Kessie? Seems only Chelsea are inte running for him.
He only just turned 20 and has been amazing for Atalanta this season, but from what I've seen he's decent but nothing too special. He lacks a bit technically, so he's not really a midfielder who controls the play.
Tony Kroos would be absolutely perfect to replace Carrick. Sadly I think he's committed to Madrid
How many players are there who actually have those kind off qualities like Carrick? Being a holing midfielder who stays down in the attacks together with the central-backs, while being very secure with the ball, and very good at reading the game and cutting out passes.
I can think off Busquets doing that in Barcelona, but other than that i don't think anyone actually got those incredibly important qualities.
There are a lot of defensive midfielders who is great at defending, like Casemiro in Real Madrid, but who doesn't have the passing and technical qualities for a player who needs to set the pace in a game. Players who been mentioned in the thread like Kroos and Veratti do have the passing qualities to set the pace in a game, but lacks the defensive. There is a reason why Kroos and Modric needs to play with Casemiro. And why Veratti plays with Kryschowiak. And I also think it would be a waste to play players like that almost in the same position as central backs in attacks, which is needed to give Pogba a freer role. I would consider Kroos or Veratti more as replacements to Herrera, and not to Carrick.
I can think off Busquets doing that in Barcelona, but other than that i don't think anyone actually got those incredibly important qualities.
There are a lot of defensive midfielders who is great at defending, like Casemiro in Real Madrid, but who doesn't have the passing and technical qualities for a player who needs to set the pace in a game. Players who been mentioned in the thread like Kroos and Veratti do have the passing qualities to set the pace in a game, but lacks the defensive. There is a reason why Kroos and Modric needs to play with Casemiro. And why Veratti plays with Kryschowiak. And I also think it would be a waste to play players like that almost in the same position as central backs in attacks, which is needed to give Pogba a freer role. I would consider Kroos or Veratti more as replacements to Herrera, and not to Carrick.
I remember few months back me stumbling on some article in which he was talking about himself being a UTD fan.
He's physical but not technical enough to replace Carrick.
Fabregas might work. He seems to not have a place at Chelsea. Conte wants the midfield two to be strong and defensively sound. You can see this from the two he's playing there (Kante and Matic) and the players Chelsea have been linked with (Kessie, Bakayoko). We play Fabregas alongside Pogba, put a destroyer behind them (i'm gonna say Schneiderlin as I feel he has a long future here) and, hey presto, we have our finished midfield.
Agree. Unless Herrera switches positions again and becomes almost a pure DM tidying up behind Kroos and Pogba
Well, in that position playing with two offensive CMs in Pogba an Veratti/Kroos you may not need a great passing ability, but you at least have the defensive. I've never seen Herrera as a player with defensive qualities.
You sure about that? It's pretty much confirmed he's transfer listed by us and I expect him to sign for Everton this month .
I'm 110% sure, maybe even more.
The best holding midfielders of the last 20 years?
Probably Scholes, Xavi, Pirlo, Makalele and Schweinsteiger. All five of them started out as forwards/wingers.
I think the idea of players having a 'natural position' has hindered the development of holding midfielders in modern football. That's the reason there seems to be such a shortage of them.
The ones available are often the players not tall enough to be defenders, not athletic enough to be box-to-box, and not creative enough to be attacking midfielders.
We could do a lot worse than identifying potential and converting somebody from a more attacking to a defensive role.
Probably Scholes, Xavi, Pirlo, Makalele and Schweinsteiger. All five of them started out as forwards/wingers.
I think the idea of players having a 'natural position' has hindered the development of holding midfielders in modern football. That's the reason there seems to be such a shortage of them.
The ones available are often the players not tall enough to be defenders, not athletic enough to be box-to-box, and not creative enough to be attacking midfielders.
We could do a lot worse than identifying potential and converting somebody from a more attacking to a defensive role.
That's why I would never want him at Man Utd, all I will think when I see him is David Moyes
Andre Gomes from Barca could potentially play that role, I wouldn't mind him at UTD, also Morata from Real Madrid to replace Zlatan.
I've been thinking the same for nearly 3 years now. He is so composed on the ball, yet no big club is after him, quite surprising really.
Herrera was sending some really nice long passes yesterday against Hull. Could it be that Mourinho is moulding him into that holding MF with plans to add another b2b like Naingolan for example?
He's played as the more defensive/holding midfielder this season at times. Basically before Carrick started being a regular and integral the football we play.
Herrera did a job there but I still think you see the best of him when you get to utilise his energy, might be something he does later in his career though.
...lol..
Since Bakayoko keeps getting a mention. What of a talent from the British shores like Isaac Hayden. Granted he hasn't been tasted in the EPL. But he looks fine for Newcastle in the role.....
No, that punt period is over, now it is WC talent or established WC.
Your last suggestion was Drinkwater. Guess what, we are MUFC so no need to do our shopping at Lidl, we go to Waitrose.