We have been worrying about buying the next Messi, maybe buying the next Carrick is even more important.
The search for a holding/controlling midfielder
- Thread starter bosnian_red
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Naingolan ?
Isn't he a dynamic midfielder?
Yea he is used like that at Roma but seen him in the holding role plenty of times for Belgium. He is one of those allround midfielders like Pogba imo who can play any position of a midfield 3. He is technically very good and has got excellent passing so it surely isn't all about running and being box to box with him.
Personally I'd like a midfield 3 with Pogba, Naingolan and a proper 10 in front of them like Griezmann.
He doesn't have an excellent passing and he can't control the rhythm of a game or a midfield, at least he has never showed those abilities. He is an all action midfielder in the mould of Schneiderlin.
Anyone from french legeaue?
He is much better than Schneiderlin and I have seen him controlling the game plenty of times for the Belgium national team and he has got a very good passing.
He is better than Schneiderlin but he isn't a very good passer. I like Nainggolan but I see a completely different player to the one you seem to see.
Really? We've seen Pogba flourish in this current role, we should be looking to keep it as similar as possible. As close to Carrick as we can, please.
Agreed. The quest for Carrick's replacement is hard though, the only players I know are Dahoud, Cyprien, Verratti and Weigl. I have seen people talk about Goretzka, Paredes, Tolisso and Neves.
Anyone think Nzonzi is good enough?
Well his passing is not like Pirlo or Xavi but it is pretty decent imo.
Whenever I see him play he has a big impact on the play as a midfielder, so I do see a playmaker in him. Not exactly in the Pirlo or Xavi mould but a good playmaker nonetheless and one that does his defensive work and doesn't neglect it. So I think he can fit the role to replace Carrick.
Ideally we'd get someone like Modric, Rakitic, Kroos or Verratti but those are all unrealistic. For me Naingolan is probably one of the best realistic options out there for us to replace Carrick.
Have we ?
He has been playing decently (altough I still expect better from him but will come in time I guess) but I don't think the 10 is his best position at all really. Hardly ever scores or assists or is actually involved in attacking plays. I feel he would have exactly the same impact on our game as he has now when he would be playing deeper. When I watch him play for United he also has the tendency to run very deep and start making the play from there, imo that is not a proper 10 really.
Whoever we choose he needs to have very good passing from deep positions. I think that it showed vs Crystal Palace the other week where Carrick pretty much out of nowhere put Pogba in a good position to score. Without Carrick in the team, Pogba is the only one in the squad able to give a pass like that which would force him deeper where he's much less of a threat.
Nainggolan is a quality player but isn't the type we need at all. If he came in he would basically fight with Herrera for the spot next to Pogba in front of a holding mid. Holding mid would still be needed in terms of somebody to dictate the passing like how Carrick does.
He has played on the left of a midfield 3, not a 10 at all. But he has been dictating games for us and been incredibly influential in every game and that's what we want.
I didn't say as a 10. He's playing in a 3 man midfield with some insurance behind him. The same role he had at Juve. Should do our best to replicate that again.
Hardly ever involved in attacking play? 5 goals and 3 assists in a struggling team in a new league is very good. And those assists could easily be doubled with some proficient finishing.
The last 2 games, he has bossed with ease. We should not be playing him in a 2 man midfield. It didn't work at the Euros, it didn't really work early in the season for us.
What ever happened to gonalons
Yeah there's a lad called Verratti who's quite good
Yes I want that aswell but I think he can do that in my proposed midfield aswell
He was played there really as the deepest man and that didn't work. I'd have him play between the deepest man and the nr 10 as I feel that is his best position. Not restricted to defending but also not needin to bridge that gap between mdifield and the striker. I think he would have had those goals and assists just the same because he just a quality player that will pick up his goals left and right. I feel Mourinho currently is playing far to safe with that 3 man midfield.
Also he played for us there in the begining of the season and we were great then coming off some amazing performances in pre season and winning 3 out of 3 at the start of the season. Mourinho should have kept it like that but instead of putting him in place of Rooney, he should have played Mata there but Mourinho as I said is far to safe to even complete that. Also playing Zlatan there and coupling him with rashford as a striking duo would have worked well imo but again seems far too attacking for Mourinho to even contemplate it.
I sorta get it that he wants to build in that extra security on the midfield against the top team, especially in away fixtures but he also does it against the bottom clubs and in home games and in that aspect I really don't agree with his tactical choices. We haven't been scoring enough goals and imo Manchester United should play attacking football from the start and only contemplate building extra security and control when 2 goals ahead in a game. So I don't agree at all with the Carrick, Herrera, Pogba midfield. None of them is a real 10 that can open up defences and it is exactly what we have been missing so far in this campaign.
Also those 5 goals and 3 assists are not all in the PL, 2 goals and 1 assists are from the EL were we played poor opposition teams. In the league it has been 3 goals and 2 assists It has been decent but I expect more from a 10 and surely one that cost us a record transfer fee.
In terms of passing quality, as I said before, Toni Kroos would be perfect.
He has the ability to control a game like Carrick. Has fantastic passing range, vision, etc. The only thing I wouldn't be sure of is his defensive capabilities. Has he got the ability to read the game like Carrick does?
I know he plays the deeper out of the double pivot for both, Madrid and Germany when he plays.
Kroos
Herrera Pogba
That said, I doubt Madrid would want to sell now.
He has the ability to control a game like Carrick. Has fantastic passing range, vision, etc. The only thing I wouldn't be sure of is his defensive capabilities. Has he got the ability to read the game like Carrick does?
I know he plays the deeper out of the double pivot for both, Madrid and Germany when he plays.
Kroos
Herrera Pogba
He really isn't playing as a 10 though. He's playing in a position he has thrived in all his professional career and it's working, we're working.
I also wouldn't be comfortable with Naingollan as our deepest midfielder fwiw.
Jean Michaël Seri has been in inspired form for table toppers Nice. Though I think he's been playing more as a box to box, with Cyprien sitting deeper. From Nice alone, I've also been impressed with their RB Ricardo Pereira and their young CB Malang Sarr (who's only 17).
Anyone seen much of Bakayoko at Monaco?
Convert Rooney.
He has the intelligence and workrate to keep things ticking with the occasional long pass.
He has the intelligence and workrate to keep things ticking with the occasional long pass.
How about no
The state of this post.
I feel sick at the thought, he's been tried failed and tried again.
We have a unique player in Pogba, I don't know how anyone thinks he can't open a defense up just as well as any #10, he's a hyrbid midfielder that we should build around, which means a midfield 3, all of whom are very good on the ball. The lack of goals isn't down to not using a pure #10, it's the wide players not scoring enough. Look at Dortmund and Barca, their midfield 3's don't score a lot but their wide players are double figures weapons, that's what we need to get Mkhi and Martial providing.
I'm not familiar with Cyprien but is Dahoud a #6? I thought he played ahead of the deepest CM. Another name to add to the list is Trigueros from Villareal, he's performed well at both #6 and #8, could be a good option to cover Carrick and Ander before eventually taking over from Carrick.
I'm not familiar with Cyprien but is Dahoud a #6? I thought he played ahead of the deepest CM. Another name to add to the list is Trigueros from Villareal, he's performed well at both #6 and #8, could be a good option to cover Carrick and Ander before eventually taking over from Carrick.
What kind of midfielder is Saul Niguez? I know he gets a lot of praise and we've been linked with him a little but don't watch Atletico enough to know.
I have seen him used like Cyprien is currently by Favre which is as a deep lying playmaker but maybe it wasn't "normal".
Edit: Like Gundogan for Germany a few seasons ago.
A better version of Herrera.
Gotcha, some of these players being discussed are so young that in truth they could end up deeper as they gain experience, not many players play as a top class #6 when they are 21 like Weigl.
Tielemans is the guy that you all are describing; however he needs 1-2 years in a better league than the Belgian pro league before he's ready for a team like United
Will get destroyed . Kroos doesnt offer protection as good as Carrick.
I thought he is Herrera "like" with a hell of a shot on him
Called it whatever you will.
a 6 is a pure defensive midfielder for me
an 8 is a central midfielder
a 10 is an attacking midfielder
I'd say Pogba is best as an 8 but not as a 6 or a 10 alltough he can play those roles aswell because he is allrounded. He got played as a 6 by Dechamps during the Euros and it hinders his creativity too much. Now he is being played something between a 10 and a 8 and is paired with Herrera who is being played as an 8. It doesn't really matter, the big point is there aren't enough goals coming from the midfield, we have control but we need more than that to consistenly win games. In my opnion Pogba isn't suited to be an outright 10, he is suited to be an 8 and for the role of an 8 his output is pretty good but for a 10 it is a bit poor. Now we don't need to play with 2 8's, we need to play with a 6 an 8 and a 10. If we play Carrick, Herrera and Pogba we are playing with a 6 an 8 and something between an 8 and a 10 and that is not an ideal midfield in my opnion because it too much focussed on control and not enough on attack.
Now Mata is a 10, so we can play with Carrick, Pogba and Mata and that would be fine for me. If Herrera must be included and leaving out Pogba isn't an option than he can either play as a 6 and we leave out Carrick and than it is Herrera, Pogba, Mata, which is also a fine midfield for me. But apparently it seems Mourinho really wants to play with a Carrick, Herrera, Pogba midfield and decided to exclude Mata. In that respect I say our midfield scores good points on controlling the game but the output in terms of goals and assists is not there and the reason for that is we are playing with 2 8's and without a proper 10.
An alternative could be a modern 4-4-2 witha diamond on the midfield
--------------------DDG----------------------
Valencia------Bailly------Rojo----------Shaw
-------------------Carrick---------------------
-------Mkhitaryan--Pogba--Herrera---------
----------------Zlatan-------------------------
--------------------Rashford------------------
Position of Herrera/Mkhitaryan could also be Rooney or Mata
It would solve our problem that we have nobody playing well on the wings atm apart from Mkhitaryan. Martial and Rashford to compete for game time by playing as strikers instead of wingers. And if we would get Griezmann in the summer, this kinda formation would easily let him fit in. It is also perfect to get the best out of Pogba.
Obviously to play like this you need fullbacks that can sorta play like wingers, we have that Valencia. If Shaw is fully fit and in top form I'd say he suits that profile aswell but Darmian and Blind or Rojo absolutley don't. So maybay a transfer for someone like Ricardo Rodriguez could be a smart move ? Or we could recall CBJ and play him in that role or try to convert Young to playing the position.
I think he is better than Herrera because he has all the attributes Herrera has but also a better long range passing and long distance shot.
We should put in a big bid for Modric. I realise he's an essential midfielder to Madrid and they'd be loathed to sell him but at 31 I think they could be tempted (depending on how much power Zidane has).
I think he's going to mature like a fine wine, there's 5 top class seasons in him in my opinion.
I think for this role in the squad a lot of people are looking in the wrong direction when discussing talented 20 year olds.
I think he's going to mature like a fine wine, there's 5 top class seasons in him in my opinion.
I think for this role in the squad a lot of people are looking in the wrong direction when discussing talented 20 year olds.