Its a shame we can't just clone carrick lol, but in serious its a carrick kind of player we need long term. We have the central pairing in pogba and herrera, we need that anchor man to bring it all home. But? we do have plan B, herrera and pogba playing in front of mata, in a 4231 system. I think both zlaten and carrick are Jose's main 2 long term replacements, who provide the goals and the control of our game
The search for a holding/controlling midfielder
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Its a shame we can't just clone carrick lol, but in serious its a carrick kind of player we need long term. We have the central pairing in pogba and herrera, we need that anchor man to bring it all home. But? we do have plan B, herrera and pogba playing in front of mata, in a 4231 system. I think both zlaten and carrick are Jose's main 2 long term replacements, who provide the goals and the control of our game
Guys, stop looking for holding mids in Italy and Spain! Their football is very different, except in specific clubs like Atlético.
Instead, look towards Germany. The style is similar to Premier League and defensive midfielders suited to the Makelele role are present in abundance.
Finding the required level might be an issue but players from Bundesliga will adapt more easily to English football than those from other leagues. Not to mention, we might get them at reasonable prices as well. You might have noticed a certain Arsene Wenger already availing himself of the German market..
PS: Don't think we'll sign Weigl. More a Pep pivote than a Mou destroyer. More probable he'll sign for City or Barça if he leaves.
Instead, look towards Germany. The style is similar to Premier League and defensive midfielders suited to the Makelele role are present in abundance.
Finding the required level might be an issue but players from Bundesliga will adapt more easily to English football than those from other leagues. Not to mention, we might get them at reasonable prices as well. You might have noticed a certain Arsene Wenger already availing himself of the German market..
PS: Don't think we'll sign Weigl. More a Pep pivote than a Mou destroyer. More probable he'll sign for City or Barça if he leaves.
Unfortunately I've said the same thing few months back but i still keep faith that Mourinho would snatch him.
I don't think it's any easier to adapt from any of these leagues as the PL is so different, for instance Herrera and Carzola settled in quickly in the PL compared to Xhaka and Dzeko. I also think Jose has been clear that he's building a footballing side here, no room for a destrucive lump, Herrera does the dirty work in the midfield 3, it's the orchestrator we are missing and Jose has used players like Alonso and Fabregas in the past.
I honestly thought Bastian would leave and Thiago Motta come in on a 2 year deal this summer.
Well, it seems that Mourinho is beginning to favour a 4-3-3 instead of the 4-2-3-1. I think he realizes that Pogba won't work properly in a 2 dm midfield role.
He can see how much of an impact Carrick has on our game, so i'm sure he will try to look for a player in the same mold.
I still think William Carvalho should be an option to consider. His passing game is top notch, even though he still lacks something defensively. However, we won't find a player without flaws in his game. Even Weigl who we all drool over is far from the complete holding midfielder.
He can see how much of an impact Carrick has on our game, so i'm sure he will try to look for a player in the same mold.
I still think William Carvalho should be an option to consider. His passing game is top notch, even though he still lacks something defensively. However, we won't find a player without flaws in his game. Even Weigl who we all drool over is far from the complete holding midfielder.
Is Carrick himself not more of a Pep pivote than a Mou destroyer? If he is, does that not show that Weigl could really succeed here?
With a 4-3-3 do we really require a pure DM type of player? Wouldn't two defensively adept #8's + the Pog be sufficent?
Reckon we should have a look at that Corentin Tolisso that plays for Lyon, have a few French mates that rave about him, I've seen him in perhaps two matches and a YouTube clip but he seems to me like a Herrera type player with slightly better vision and passing. Doesn't shy away from a tackle either and is really high-energy.
Might be a bit undiciplined with a midfield consisting of those three though, but since Schweini, Fellaini and Schneid likely all will be gone by the summer we'll need cover\competition for Herrera anyways.
I don't know anything about Carvalho, he used to be quite hyped a few years back but it has all gone a bit silent.
@Peyroteo , could he do a job for us?
Reckon we should have a look at that Corentin Tolisso that plays for Lyon, have a few French mates that rave about him, I've seen him in perhaps two matches and a YouTube clip but he seems to me like a Herrera type player with slightly better vision and passing. Doesn't shy away from a tackle either and is really high-energy.
Might be a bit undiciplined with a midfield consisting of those three though, but since Schweini, Fellaini and Schneid likely all will be gone by the summer we'll need cover\competition for Herrera anyways.
I don't know anything about Carvalho, he used to be quite hyped a few years back but it has all gone a bit silent.
@Peyroteo , could he do a job for us?
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Thiago Motta would be a perfect stop-gap. As would Bastian feckin Schweinsteiger if we only just let him.
Carvalho seems like a good option for me. He has physicality and height that Jose loves in Fellaini, but coupled with a decent passing range and solid defensive game. He lacks mobility from what I've seen but in Herrera and Pogba we have two very mobile and energetic partners which should be a good combination.
I also like the look of Tolisso as another box to box option if and when one or two of Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger and Fellaini move on. Weigl is clearly a special talent but I'm not sure he'd suit the English game and he certainly wouldn't be attainable in the short term. Until we reach the very top again Verratti is pie in the sky stuff.
I think we need to realise that finding a like for like replacement for a player of Carrick's quality is much easier said than done. We had similar issues with Keane but Carrick himself turned out to be a great signing even though he was nothing like Keane. In our case I feel like Carvalho could offer a similar alternative, giving us some of Carrick's qualities, sacrificing others and bringing new qualities to the table that complement our other players.
I also like the look of Tolisso as another box to box option if and when one or two of Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger and Fellaini move on. Weigl is clearly a special talent but I'm not sure he'd suit the English game and he certainly wouldn't be attainable in the short term. Until we reach the very top again Verratti is pie in the sky stuff.
I think we need to realise that finding a like for like replacement for a player of Carrick's quality is much easier said than done. We had similar issues with Keane but Carrick himself turned out to be a great signing even though he was nothing like Keane. In our case I feel like Carvalho could offer a similar alternative, giving us some of Carrick's qualities, sacrificing others and bringing new qualities to the table that complement our other players.
In the end, it depends on:
1) What playing style is best suited to exploit Pogba's game,
2) what deficiencies Mourinho detects in Herrera's water carrier role, and
3) whether we get an experienced, top-class CB
My answers for these three are: 1) Counter-attacks, 2) Physicality, defensive awareness and 3) Difficult in today's market.
Which is why I would prefer someone like Matic in front of the back-four.
Fabinho seems to be the player we are linked with the most.
What suits Pogba is having a game controller behind him, like he had with Pirlo, it means he can focus his attention on taking risks and not have to worry about dictating tempo. I think Herrera has good defensive awareness and he's not looked to struggle against bigger opponents, if you put a Matic type our midfield would be much less fluid asnd Pogba would end up getting deeper and deeper.
That was back when he was playing more as a RB though, his passing isn't good enough to play in this team, he'd be more suited to Ander's role if any.
Could Ander take the holding role and then bring somebody in like Hector Herrera?
That would just be bringing in another player with the same game though, we need the complimentary piece to go with Ander and Pogba.
I take it then that your point of view is that we need a direct replacement for Carrick or a Pirlo type of player to re-create the Juve midfield (Hector seems a better fit for the Vidal role). Who would that be?
I looked him up. He doesn't have a beard like Pirlo or Xabi Alonso. Seems like bullshit to me.
Edit: he seems to have a slight one around the frame of his face. I take this to mean he is a burgeoning playmaker. Perhaps an investment for the future?
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@SwansonsTache he's good on fifa I say sign him up!
Do you think that signing either Lindelöf or Giménez in the January Transfer Window would entail that we do not need to sign an out-and-out defensive midfielder (à la Matic)?
I'd be happy enough with either of Weigl or Strootman I think. Looking at their stats this season, neither as strong as Carrick defensively but Weigl may be a little better with the ball.
The defensive work is largely down to Carricks experience and understanding of the game. That's going to be almost impossible to buy in a player of 25-30.
The defensive work is largely down to Carricks experience and understanding of the game. That's going to be almost impossible to buy in a player of 25-30.
The contract extension of Weigl until 2021 ll be announced soon, but even that prob wont stop the muppet armee to put him in their line ups. Not the slightest chance to get him though. You have to find somebody else.
Dortmund are a selling club
I can't understand why some people give the impression that Mou likes enforcers. At Inter he had two DMs who were tough in their game but had great vision, good passing ability etc (Zanetti and Cambiasso). At United he's playing with Carrick-Herrera-Pogba. Its not as if he's so keen with water carriers around
I'd be happy enough with either of Weigl or Strootman I think. Looking at their stats this season, neither as strong as Carrick defensively but Weigl may be a little better with the ball.
The defensive work is largely down to Carricks experience and understanding of the game. That's going to be almost impossible to buy in a player of 25-30.
Is Strootman fit and healthy these days ?
Big signing. Hopefully someone like Carrick.
I'd be happy enough with either of Weigl or Strootman I think. Looking at their stats this season, neither as strong as Carrick defensively but Weigl may be a little better with the ball.
The defensive work is largely down to Carricks experience and understanding of the game. That's going to be almost impossible to buy in a player of 25-30.
That looks v impressive from Strootman. Could he do a RVN?
Maybe worth a punt.
He's played around 25 games for club and country so far this season so I'd imagine he must be.
Could be an excellent, no fuss midfielder to come in and take over from Carrick.
I was hoping we bought him when LvG first arrived but he seemed decimated by perpetual injuries. If he's fully fit then he would be an ideal Carrick replacement imo.
Cruciate ligament injury and two major knee operations, I would be sceptical, especially considering our luck and history with such injuries.
I like that he'd be a somewhat unheralded arrival. Similar to Carrick in that he does a crucial job very efficiently, but his work isn't always recognised or applauded. Not sure why but I just think this squad could do with a couple more lads who have real quality, but just get on with their job quietly and properly.
They would need to spend about 3 weeks doing his medical though.
I know player swaps or player swaps plus cash almost never happen but the likes of Schneiderlin, Memphis, Fellaini et al could easily go in the other direction.
Seems like Schneiderlin and Memphis are set for Everton no? I'm not sure what they'd make of Fellaini in Italy. The idea of him walking around Rome in a stylish suit is somewhat ridiculous.
Drinkwater anyone?
No, never in a million years.
We've hopefully moved on from that kind of signing, for too long have we bought from the second or third self and it has manifested itself in our performances, from now on just top class or potential top class, thank you.
Absolutely not
Hee hee
In all fairness he had Viera and Motta who weren't exactly enforcers but still did the dirty job when needed. Muntari as well tho he was covering every position in MF.
Like we've just seen with Gundogan at City, it's very risky buying players that have more than one serious injury, and I think that is heightened when it comes to CM's and knees.
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