Them two will be no better than Schniderlin.
The search for a holding/controlling midfielder
- Thread starter bosnian_red
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Them two will be no better than Schniderlin.
Carrick's size rarely factored into things though, plus size doesn't always equate power, you keep deriding Varratti as weak but he mullered Matic in the CL a couple of seasons ago, anyway it's neither here nor there at this juncture, Weigl is very similar to Carrick in height and frame so he'd be as close to a like for like.
I don't see either of those being harder workers or better tacklers than Herrera, I just always get the feeling you don't really rate Ander in general though. I can see the logic in adding another box to box to compete with him as I don't think he's so good that you leave his spot unchallenged, but I just wouldn't want it to be either of those two personally, I don't think they offer enough.
.... on speed.
Cant believe people have brought size/height into the argument. We have one of the tallest and most powerful squads in the league, and look where we are. Perhaps we should instead sign players who can play a bit of football with some intelligence. Verratti would be at home in this league - he's actually been criticised by his managers for being to feisty and physical. He's the standout candidate for the DLP role; and would be available for the right price (like most players).
Fabinho seems to be the best option for that role and he also might be the easiest to acquire.
I could see him being bought for that role rather than as a RB, but if we did then we'd really need a playmaking #8 added as his passing isn't anything special.
Victor Lindelof would be a good shout as a DM for us to sit in front of the back four. He can pass a bit and has played that role many times in his career and he has that defensive toughness that Mourinho likes. The Sun saying we will go in for Obi Mikel in January tonight which is a bit daft even though he'll only have 6 months left on the Chelsea contract in January. He could defo do a job though if Chelsea sell. Tielemans seems like a good fit but Mourinho probably feels under too much pressure to deliver quickly and probably prefers a seasoned pro to an up and coming kid that he'd have to develop.
Mikel?
I don't see that happening, as for Lindelof, isn't he making his bread as a CB at Benfica?Verratti is overrated, for the past 3 years, I have seen 0 sign of progress..
He has a very bad lifestyle, that's why he missed half of last season. At the moment, Rabiot is the best midfielder of the PSG.
In Italy, he is heavily criticized because he is always mediocre when he plays ( he isn't a starter )...
One DLP ( Weigl, Paredes...) and a Naingollan ( http://soccer.realgm.com/analysis/118/The-Destructive-Creator-Radja-Nainggolan ) are the perfect fit for Pogba.
He has a very bad lifestyle, that's why he missed half of last season. At the moment, Rabiot is the best midfielder of the PSG.
In Italy, he is heavily criticized because he is always mediocre when he plays ( he isn't a starter )...
One DLP ( Weigl, Paredes...) and a Naingollan ( http://soccer.realgm.com/analysis/118/The-Destructive-Creator-Radja-Nainggolan ) are the perfect fit for Pogba.
It has to be Verrati, if not then Weigl.
Verrati
Herrera Pogba
That would be one of the best midfields in the world.
Verrati
Herrera Pogba
That would be one of the best midfields in the world.
Weigl is better and cheaper than Verratti
He's most certainly starring at center back for Benfica. I've only watched him a couple of times but like the look of him. I've just read that he has played defensive midfield frequently earlier in his career. I'm putting 2 and 2 together but I don't think there will be many attainable high quality defensive midfielders or deep lying playmakers available in January so Mourinho might try and be creative. There's been a good few examples of DM's or CB's who either started out in DM or CB and starred in the role they moved to once they were switched such as Mascerano, Eric Dier, Kompany, Carragher etcMikel?
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You made a good point. Actualky Rio started as DM as well, which made me think, for a period of time, that he probably can move back to DM role for us, with his defending work and good on ball, passings.
That also links to what makes me think that giving a chance to Blind in Carrick role may work now. A full year of playing CB must have toughen him up a lot, and made him a better player defensively.
I don't think Jose will try to fix the holding midfield position in January personally, I think that will be the joint big one in the summer, but I could see him buying Lindelof as a CB in January though as I think he's definitely going to add one of those regardless.
Yeah Lindelof or Van Dijk seem like good options in January. He did play David Luiz as a defensive midfielder at Chelsea and he was pretty decent there but for the DM role I'd say the favorite is still Tiemoue Bakayoko in the summer as Monaco won't sell before then and Le 10 sport linked us with him a month or two back and they are usually pretty good when it comes to French players.
Mentioned in the Griezmann thread that I'd much prefer Fabinho over Weigl and co. He reminds me of Yaya, the way he covers ground, his presence on the field, his style of play ect.
Midfield 3 of Herrera, Fabinho & Le Pog is up there in the top 5 imo.
Midfield 3 of Herrera, Fabinho & Le Pog is up there in the top 5 imo.
Buddy, he is not better than Verratti... I think people overate this kid too much, great passer but quite a few making him out to be the next Xavi
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His passing isn't nearly good enough without a playmaker in the 3, that trio would be disjointed, we've seen what happens without Carrick, somewhere in the 3 there needs to be a metronome.
Keep telling that to yourself, but its nonsense though, as Weigl isnt even on the market and surely wont be sold upcoming summer. Dont be surprised to see him extending his contract soon.
Also thinking that United in their actual mess would be his prefereed destination is more than naive. Couldnt imagine a more toxic place to continue his development. Weigl to United in the near future wont happen and you can quote me on that.
Getting Verratti sounds like a muppet dream too, so if these two players are the solution for summer, then good luck.
Verratti is struggling to be in PSG's first team and yet, according to you, he's good enough to be our DM despite the fact he never played there in all his career and he's 5ft5 tall.
He's not a DM. he never was and he never will. He can shine but he'll always need a tough midfielder around him. At PSG they got Matuidi, with Italy he's got De Rossi.
You're really fascinates me. You don't mind having an imp who never played as a DM as our DM but then you insist on having a big lump upfront.
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We have Carrick who aside form Busquetts is the best there is. The we have his natural successor in Daley Blind. Just play the feckers and we'll win. As the stats show
Without Carrick we still create a ton of chances, just it doesn't give Herrera or Pogba that freedom when attacking knowing they have defensive duties. Carrick isn't going to be here forever and I like that Mourinho is trying to faze him out because there is no like for like replacement for him, albeit we have Bastian who can do that role too but isn't in any sort of plan. Blind like other posters have said is the closest thing to him in our squad, Blind is now settled in the league and is accustomed to the physical demands whereas when he first joined he got thrown in the deep end at CDM. Getting in a destroyer/Enforcer means we will see a lot of of Pogba and Herrera going forward, he doesn't need to be a wizard in that position. Herrera and Pogba create the chances.
If it was me I'd like to see Allan or Fabinho in that role for us, Allan is in the mound of Kante and Fabinho looks like a defensive Moussa Dembele/Toure type, both of there passing is acceptable. Much like Schneiderlins who I feel has been treated quite unfairly, as much as people say he is crap, there was a point we didn't loose a game when he was in the team under LVG. He is a solid player and I hope he can show us the goodies against a West Ham on Wednesday.
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That's surely an option, hence why I don't think that we should sell him. There again, Blind is 1 man and if we play him we still need a box to box player who offers great mobility and he's pretty physical.
In few words Weigl and Blind can do Carrick's job but if we want to get rid of Fellaini in midfield then we need to compliment that with someone like Naingollan
Verratti
Herrera - Pogba
Mata - Griezmann - Martial
Herrera - Pogba
Mata - Griezmann - Martial
Verratti is not on sale either and he plays with a club whose way richer then Dortmund.
Wiegl passing is great and Blind would be a great cover/competitor for him. However we'll still need to add a box to box midfielder who offers physicality and energy to the side. Else we will keep fudging that problem by playing Fellaini.
I m well aware of this, thus I think you wont get him. That Weigl wont move clubs in the summer is guaranteed though. Dortmund wont sell no matter how rich other clubs are.
Maybe. Not seen him. Don't really like commenting on players I haven't seen.
This isn't what I said dev, I was merely commenting on the notion that Carrick's size had anything to do with why he's so good, and also pointing out that Verratti isn't weak, because he's not, his low center of gravity and tenacity make him hard to shake. Yet I said from the start I'd add a player like Fabinho or N'Zonzi in if we got Verratti, I just don't agree with youre insistence on buying a WWE escapee being the be all and end all.
I also noticed you wrote 2 paragraphs and didn't address your views on Herrera, mate.
It's not about creating chances though, Carrick helps us flow and keep momentum and shape in our game, at the weekend we were noticeably more disjointed without Carrick feeding Pogba and Mata, they had to keep coming deeper and deeper to get the ball, the same would happen with Fabinho as he's not got a good enough passing range. If we buy someone like him that is purely a DM then we need to bring in a #8 that can dictate a game and control the tempo.
So you're talking about adding a box to box for the bench if we get Weigl?
At least give Schneiderlin a proper run out I say. Look at the likes of Henderson and Wijnaldum flourishing under Klopp. Makes me envious and angry at the same time.
With all due respect mate, but have you watched Verratti play? Don’t take me wrong he’s quite a gifted player and his passing is top notch. However he’s ‘tenacity’ and strength is not what he’s remembered on. In matter of fact it’s the very reason why many Italians are concerned about him and I assure you the Serie A is not as physical as the EPL is. Don’t take me wrong your plan might work (playing alongside Fabinho). However its far from ideal
That leads us to my suggestion. YES we need a playmaker but, that shouldn’t be Verratti
A- He’s physical characteristics aren’t suited for the EPL. Currently he’s struggling in the French league imagine how he’ll fare in the EPL
B- Italian players tend to be programmed to a more tactical and slower game. Hence why most Italian midfielders had struggled in the EPL (Di Matteo, Aquilani, Ambrosetti, Berti, Dino Baggio etc)
C- He’ll cost us a bomb
I think we’ll better of bringing in someone like Weigl, who is a good passer of the ball himself and who is more physical then Verratti. Also, at times we would need more steel in midfield hence someone like Naingollan, Fabinho or Drinkwater would be a great asset to the team. They won’t be playing week in week out since Herrera can do the job against the physically weaker sides (he’s a more technical player then them) but they will get their fair share of games (ie the ones Fellaini currently play with mixed results (ie he lacks movement)).
The aim here is to allow Pogba to play his game irrespective of opposition. Someone with such incredible talent shouldn’t be wasted in playing deep and win the ball.
Ironically my plan will give more games to Herrera, a player, I’ve rated and suggested as a potential signing since Athletic Bilbao humiliated us a couple of years back. Wiegl is stronger physically then Verratti, hence we would need a Drinkwater/Fabinho/Naingollan less then we would need him if we play the Italian.
Genuinely think Blind is the answer. Played there for a bit with VG and was v good in possession. Good on the ball, level headed. Not super fast or physical but I am unsure you need to be.
Better than splashing 60m on Verratti
Better than splashing 60m on Verratti
I've seen plenty of Verratti, I saw him easily handle Chelsea's midfield giants a couple of seasons ago, you're really over egging the pudding on his size mate. PSG as a whole have stuttered this season under Emery and now Verratti is back playing regularly their performances have improved and they are on a run, no coincidence there. Him being Italian is irrelevant as he's played most of his senior football in France and has bossed CL games.
Pogba
----------Verratti
----Fabinho
Would work just fine. As for the set-up with Weigl, I still think you are suggesting players that are inferior to Herrera in every way. If you were saying lets bring in Tolisso, Keita, Saul, Goretzka etc...ad a #8 alternative then sure, and Fabinho, Pogba and Weigl wouldn't work, it would be way too flat with Pogba as a #10, Fabinho is a pure destroyer and Weigl sits deep as well, Pogba is always best when the midfield triangle is point backwards.
Blind is massively inferior to Verratti in midfield, really good utility option for LB and CB though which is how Jose has used him so far, he clearly has no intention of putting him in midfield, he'll even bring back Schweinsteiger rather than do it.
So basically you've seen in against one team....right
I've been watching the Serie A since I was a boy and I assure you there's a reason why Italian midfielders struggle in the EPL. Verratti is small and weak even to the Serie A standards. Hence why Juventus (who basically poach around 90% of Italian talent) had been undecisive on him and that's why he ended at PSG instead.
Weigl is an excellent passer of the ball. Fabinho is quite good in moving forward with the ball and as said we'll only use him when we need more steel to what Herrera-Pogba-Weigl can provide.
Don't act the dick mate, it's pointless, I have seen Verratti many times in Ligue 1 and the CL, and simply mentioned that he had no problem handling your WWE midfielders when he had to, you are totally overdoing this idea that he's some childish weakling.
I don't know why you keep mentioning Serie A since he never played there and has excfelled in a league that is much faster and more physical than Serie A.
Fabinho isn't particularlay good on the ball in general, he basically wins it and drops it off short, that's useless if we had Weigl who wins it and plays it through the lines, even in tougher games where you seem to think Herrera can't work you'd need a more energetic and dynamic #8 added into the mix, not a player like Fabinho.
We already have a very physical side. We don't need another "destroyer" at all. We need someone with actual talent to keep the game ticking over in midfield. It isn't about creating chances, it's about controlling games. Signing a destroyer only makes sense if we lose Herrera too or just want an extra squad option. Adding one to a Herrera/Pogba midfield will still leave us looking disjointed.
I am not acting as a dick. Im asking. Seriously mate, I've been following the guy for so much time that I find it difficult to relate to what you're saying. However yes, I may have acted as a dick about it so I apologise.
Verratti is an Italian product ie from Pescara. Prior to his arrival to PSG he was courted by Juventus (like most of Italian players anyway) but they decided not to sign him up because he's too small and frail. Juventus had their fingers burnt by another tiny player ie Sebastian Giovinco who possess great talent but kept being tossed around like a rag doll until he ended up playing in Canada.
Last summer Juventus had the chance to sign Verratti, mainly because they could afford him (selling Pogba). They passed the chance because again, they thought he's too small and frail for them. I assure you that Juventus scouts are top class and they rarely get things wrong (although there were occasions when they did). I can make a list of all the young talent they found but I doubt redcafe had the necessary bandwidth for that (ok I am exxagerating but you get the gist of it)
My knowledge about the Bundersliga is far less then that of Italian football. However from what I've read and the little I've seen Wiegl seems to be a good passer of the ball. Maybe the Bayern Munich guy can give us his review about him if he cares speaking about anything apart from Bastian.
This Tottenham lad Mousa Dembélé ticks all the right boxes whenever i get to see him, his pace and age are the only things that set him a bit off. He's got the tools to open up a defence coming from behind...him not available last season was part of the reason why everything went to shit and good ol' Arse had to have the last laugh. Maybe there's someone similar out there.
In general hope we'll keep an eye on Weigl. Could always do with such a player.
In general hope we'll keep an eye on Weigl. Could always do with such a player.