The search for a holding/controlling midfielder

Devil may care said:
He looks similar in style to Kante.
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Yeah. Now I think that if you wanna do something good, you should buy these kinds of projects. I don't like watching argentinian football but I'm following Estudiantes only because of him, and he's always good in terms of defending and delivering.

Here's some great movements vs Racing Club, in the begining the fans are asked "Bauza is coming to the stadium to watch the game, who is the one he should follow?" Everyone answers the same, Ascacibar.

 
Shubham Ahuja said:
You got the right team, but it's Jorginho who made them tick last season. Take a look at this.



Only problem with scouting Serie A players is, the Italian and English leagues are chalk and cheese. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but the two are so different! It's not a surprise that so many forwards from Series A fail to make a mark in England.
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Not sure how good he really is but looks outstanding on youtube (no surprise). He definitely looks the style of player we need though.
 
IFC 1905 said:
Yeah. Now I think that if you wanna do something good, you should buy these kinds of projects. I don't like watching argentinian football but I'm following Estudiantes only because of him, and he's always good in terms of defending and delivering.

Here's some great movements vs Racing Club, in the begining the fans are asked "Bauza is coming to the stadium to watch the game, who is the one he should follow?" Everyone answers the same, Ascacibar.

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He looks a beast defensively. A proper destroyer.
 
Maybe should set up our team differently while searching. Finding a new Carrick will be difficult, as he is a rare breed. It took Ferguson some time to find a player like this after Keane. And Keane was perhaps a holding midfielder that won the battle, but he was not a controlling midfielder. With players like Scholes and Beckham next to him, he did not have to be.

In the long run, I'm sure Pogba will be our controlling midfielder. Perhaps not from a holding position like Carrick, but still a controlling midfielder. If we are to give him freedom higher up the pitch he just needs a good cover.

I would probably look at different types of midfielders given that they are able to provide defensive cover. It do not have to be a Weigl or a Strootman. How about Franck Kessie or Naby Keita?
 
IFC 1905 said:
Yeah. Now I think that if you wanna do something good, you should buy these kinds of projects. I don't like watching argentinian football but I'm following Estudiantes only because of him, and he's always good in terms of defending and delivering.

Here's some great movements vs Racing Club, in the begining the fans are asked "Bauza is coming to the stadium to watch the game, who is the one he should follow?" Everyone answers the same, Ascacibar.

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Needs to level up.. Technique was poor.
 
'Can;t we just sign Julian Weigl? :(
 
Could Pereira play the deep lying playmaker role if he comes good? I know he's a little young but from what I understand he has impressed in Spain over at Granada.
 
Nick. said:
Could Pereira play the deep lying playmaker role if he comes good? I know he's a little young but from what I understand he has impressed in Spain over at Granada.
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My thoughts exactly. But for at least another 2 years Herrera has RCM on lock down.

EDIT: In reality, Herrera could go on for another 4/5 years. Modric is still doing well at that age if I am not mistaken. Given that Pogba and Herrera won't move for another 5+ years, that leaves the defensive midfield position, but that's not suited to Pereira.
 
Surprised no one has mentioned Dembele at Spurs, very underrated and dictates how Spurs play more so that Eriksen in my opinion.
 
What about Mateo Kovacic? They are grooming him at Madrid to be the next Modric and he's been one of their better players recently. Still young, will continue improving. I doubt they wanna sell him now that he's been playing so well recently but it's Madrid, you never know. He can get in a bit of a slump and they might decide they want to sell him. Still 21, maybe we should inquire a bit because he's definitely becoming a player for them.
 
Icemav said:
I've been saying the same thing about Verratti. He is brilliant but he may not be gettable, fingers crossed. Him aside the more I watch of Weigl the more impressed I am.... Despite being a Dortmund player. He could be very special and everything about him is very like Carrick.
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I am pretty sure he is gettable for Pogba money, if he pushes (like Pogba did). I am pretty sure he would prefer us over Paris, with a good fee, at least when we qualify for CL. Thing is that what i learned, we are doing this "one galactico a year" thingy now..and i think in 2017 it will be Griezmann, rather then Verratti. Weigl would also be my second choice, even though not replicating his standard from last year so far. But normal at this young age. He isn't good enough to be a starter though, at least not for our league. Would take some time..but long term, yes please.

As for other suggestions like Kovacic or Dembele..good players, especially Dembele, but would not fit in a midfield with Pogba and Herrera. We really need a Carrick replacement. If we don't get a good "half-back deeplying playmaker" fusion, we already have a decent destroyer with Schneiderlin. Can't see any destroyer apart from Kante to make us better in that respect. But Mourinho clearly doesn't want to play with a destroyer.
 
Hahao said:
What about Mateo Kovacic? They are grooming him at Madrid to be the next Modric and he's been one of their better players recently. Still young, will continue improving. I doubt they wanna sell him now that he's been playing so well recently but it's Madrid, you never know. He can get in a bit of a slump and they might decide they want to sell him. Still 21, maybe we should inquire a bit because he's definitely becoming a player for them.
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It wouldn't be the first time someone was able to pick up good talent from that club without going bankrupt. I think they have a transfer ban, which could make it difficult.
 
I have high hopes for Fosu Mensah and Perreira. And as a part of a midfield 3 with Pogba they can effectively offer everything required from a midfield trio.

But say if Perreira develops into a Coutinho type of player, which is entirely possible, instead of a CM then I'd love to see someone like a Tolisso or Saul brought in.
 
Vito Corleone said:
My thoughts exactly. But for at least another 2 years Herrera has RCM on lock down.

EDIT: In reality, Herrera could go on for another 4/5 years. Modric is still doing well at that age if I am not mistaken. Given that Pogba and Herrera won't move for another 5+ years, that leaves the defensive midfield position, but that's not suited to Pereira.
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I have to disagree re Herrera. I've made this point in another thread - I don't think he's consistently good enough and no where near productive enough to be a regular starter for a club like Utd. You mentioned Modric but he's far superior. Herrera works hard and is passionate, which we love to see, so deserves a place in the squad but he's not indispensable. In addition to a replacement for Carrick (I can only see Verratti or Weigl having the necessary qualities), we should be on the lookout for a quality b2b midfielder who can complement Pogba (like Vidal did at Juve).
 
My heart flirts with the Weigl idea but my mind says he needs to stay another 2-3 seasons then we go all out. if we still had LvG, then his signing would be a no brainer but signing him now will be suicidal to his developing career.

Splash the cash on veratti I'd say
 
redNATION said:
I have to disagree re Herrera. I've made this point in another thread - I don't think he's consistently good enough and no where near productive enough to be a regular starter for a club like Utd. You mentioned Modric but he's far superior. Herrera works hard and is passionate, which we love to see, so deserves a place in the squad but he's not indispensable. In addition to a replacement for Carrick (I can only see Verratti or Weigl having the necessary qualities), we should be on the lookout for a quality b2b midfielder who can complement Pogba (like Vidal did at Juve).
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To be fair, Ander's position in a potential midfield 3 setup (DLP + B2B + Pogba) doesn't require much consistent excellence from a qualitative standpoint. Vidal was different because Juventus' 5 man defensive setup allowed him more tactical freedom than he would get at United with Pogba already there. There are slight parallels between what Matuidi did for PSG and what Ander can do for United. The former was quite underrated in the past, and is now becoming a tad overrated despite his lack of top shelf technique or impact - because of his value to the team from a structural standpoint: in terms of providing the legwork for Verratti/Motta/Rabiot. And Ander can (and does) do the same for United.

The big thing with players like Herrera and Matuidi is that they provide much needed intensity to the team - and there's a visible drop in our tempo and purpose when Herrera's not on the field. He's persistent, and harries opponents, can play quick passes to better players, seems quite cerebral in terms of on-field presence and understanding of the tactics, and runs himself into the ground for the team. Midfielders that offer all those qualities, and are selfless are hard to find in post-modern football. He's almost a dynamic box-to-box water carrier with good, Spanish technique. That's on top of his tactical versatility.

Mourinho has always evidenced a soft spot for players like that. Long term, yes, we could stand to sign maybe Saúl for that position, but Herrera's the perfect tactical fit, and has the perfect fiery temperament for the Carrick + Pogba + CM setup we've employed in the recent past. That balance is very delicate, and it's not just about having the best players, but building the best team by piecing together the best characteristics; and sometimes a committed player like Ander can prove to be a vital part of the overall machinery despite him not being European elite (like Modrić) from an individual standpoint.
 
Celestiale said:
I am pretty sure he is gettable for Pogba money, if he pushes (like Pogba did). I am pretty sure he would prefer us over Paris, with a good fee, at least when we qualify for CL. Thing is that what i learned, we are doing this "one galactico a year" thingy now..and i think in 2017 it will be Griezmann, rather then Verratti. Weigl would also be my second choice, even though not replicating his standard from last year so far. But normal at this young age. He isn't good enough to be a starter though, at least not for our league. Would take some time..but long term, yes please.

As for other suggestions like Kovacic or Dembele..good players, especially Dembele, but would not fit in a midfield with Pogba and Herrera. We really need a Carrick replacement. If we don't get a good "half-back deeplying playmaker" fusion, we already have a decent destroyer with Schneiderlin. Can't see any destroyer apart from Kante to make us better in that respect. But Mourinho clearly doesn't want to play with a destroyer.
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I agree that a destroyer could work next to a disciplined Pogba (and he seems to be improving) but I don't rate Schneiderlin. Has done nothing to make me sit up and take notice since joining. Actually I wasn't even that impressed when he was at Southampton.... just an in form player in a system that suits him for a mid table side. Never seemed top class at anything in particular especially passing.
 
Can't believe I'm saying this after arguing against Gündogan last season, but I wouldn't mind signing Strootman. His knees are a concern, but his passing has been very good for Roma. In general he's playing consistently well.
 
Verratti's defensive positioning and tracking is really improving and his passing is top class.....one can dream.
 
bucky said:
Can't believe I'm saying this after arguing against Gündogan last season, but I wouldn't mind signing Strootman. His knees are a concern, but his passing has been very good for Roma. In general he's playing consistently well.
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Yes I thought we had tried to sign Strootman in the past but it didn't work out. I think he might be an ok choice but I don't watch much Italian football. Is he any good defensively?
 
I mentioned Kovacic a few days ago but here's another thought...maybe with his emergence, maybe Modric or Kross could be available? Madrid sold Xabi Alonso when they no longer needed him and he's still really good for Bayern.
 
Nick. said:
Yes I thought we had tried to sign Strootman in the past but it didn't work out. I think he might be an ok choice but I don't watch much Italian football. Is he any good defensively?
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The way he's currently playing it's easy to see why van Gaal thought he brings the balance to the force (midfield). Seriously though, defensively he's always been good in terms of positioning and he's showing it for Roma. He's never going to be the quickest player, but he has other traits to make up for it. With that being said he wouldn't be my first choice, I'd rather see us sign Tolisso or Naby Keita.
 
bucky said:
The way he's currently playing it's easy to see why van Gaal thought he brings the balance to the force (midfield). Seriously though, defensively he's always been good in terms of positioning and he's showing it for Roma. He's never going to be the quickest player, but he has other traits to make up for it. With that being said he wouldn't be my first choice, I'd rather see us sign Tolisso or Naby Keita.
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Aren't these both more box top box CM's though? I think the key thing Jose will be looking for is defensive discipline, if he can pair it with good passing I am sure he will but I wouldn't be surprised to see him settle for someone like N'Zonzi or Fabinho to just sit in front of the back 4 and give Pogba a lot of freedom.
 
Devil may care said:
Aren't these both more box top box CM's though? I think the key thing Jose will be looking for is defensive discipline, if he can pair it with good passing I am sure he will but I wouldn't be surprised to see him settle for someone like N'Zonzi or Fabinho to just sit in front of the back 4 and give Pogba a lot of freedom.
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Tolisso can play as the disciplined holding midfielder and he's already done it more than once when Gonalons was out. He also has the passing to do so. The thing about him, which makes him especially for Mourinho IMO a perfect midfielder is that he's good at almost everything, while not being a jack of all trades, if that makes sense. He's defensively very good, he's good in the air and he's physically very strong. Would he be a bit restricted by playing next to Pogba? Yes, probably, but I think we should definitely try to sign him. From what I've seen of Keita it's quite similar. Both are very good going forward and their best position is as you say the box-to-box role, but Keita is defensively very good as well. Personally I still feel we can upgrade on Herrera in the box-to-box role and Herrera could play as the holding midfielder like he's done against Chelsea during van Gaal's first season (I think).

Fabinho would be a very good signing for Carrick's position in the 4-1-4-1/4-3-3. Mostly I want us to improve the quality of our midfield, since we are going to lose Carrick sooner than later and a few other player in that area need to be moved on.

devilish said:
He's very small. You can't play Verratti as a DM.
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:lol: Now you are just looking for an argument with @Devil may care .
 
What about Luiz Gustavo from Wolfsburg? He has big experience from playing for Bayern, he's tall and he's Brazilian so he's born with ball skills.

Also Wolfsburg is falling apart, they will look to reorganise the club and sell some top players like Rodriguez (LB), Draxler (LW, RW), Luiz Gustavo (DMF).

Now only issue is that he's close to 30 if i remember good, but he could be a bargain to get.

Also that Fabinho from Monaco that we were looking to sign as RB is now constantly playing DMF and doing a pretty good job there.
 
bucky said:
:lol: Now you are just looking for an argument with @Devil may care .
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Really, its not the case. I like devie...we even share the same name ffs.

Having said that, I find it very hard to see how Verratti can ever be a DM. FFS he's even shorter then Paul Scholes and Lionel Messi!
 
devilish said:
Really, its not the case. I like devie...we even share the same name ffs.

Having said that, I find it very hard to see how Verratti can ever be a DM. FFS he's even shorter then Paul Scholes!
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So Verratti is a box-to-box player for you, who shouldn't play deeper because of his height?
 
bucky said:
So Verratti is a box-to-box player for you, who shouldn't play deeper because of his height?
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He can play as a deep lying playmaker but not as a DM. He's small and not very strong
 
Celestiale said:
Mate, i am very sorry, but i have to tell you something...this may come hard now...but Verratti actually is already a DM
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You mean the league were Falcao and our Swedish pensioner are/were scoring goals for fun? I wont be surprised with thatg
 
Celestiale said:
Mate, i am very sorry, but i have to tell you something...this may come hard now...but Verratti actually is already a DM
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Isn't he playing as a CMF in a MF trio? Thought Motta and KriwxvwaxgesPolishDude are playing DMF there.
 
Sensei said:
My heart flirts with the Weigl idea but my mind says he needs to stay another 2-3 seasons then we go all out. if we still had LvG, then his signing would be a no brainer but signing him now will be suicidal to his developing career.

Splash the cash on veratti I'd say
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Devil may care said:
Verratti's defensive positioning and tracking is really improving and his passing is top class.....one can dream.
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Escobar said:
He is by far the best option but also the option that is not realistic unfortunately
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Verratti would be the best option but I think we can offer PSG £100M and they wouldnt blink, they have zero need for money and at this point I do not think Verratti has a wish to move. He has been quoted as saying he would like to win the Champions league with PSG
 
bucky said:
I think that's what @Devil may care meant. Is your definition of a DM someone like Krychowiak?
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He can play like Pirlo if you ask me (in matter of fact he's his natural heir). However for every Pirlo there must be a Gattuso and that player is neither Herrera nor Pogba
 
devilish said:
He can play like Pirlo if you ask me (in matter of fact he's his natural heir). However for every Pirlo there must be a Gattuso and that player is neither Herrera nor Pogba
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The OP specifically asks for a midfielder that controls the game, I think it's fair to say that Verratti is capable of doing so. What midfielder are you looking for next to Pogba?
 
Fracture90 said:
Isn't he playing as a CMF in a MF trio? Thought Motta and KriwxvwaxgesPolishDude are playing DMF there.
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judge for yourself who you'd rather call "DM"

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