The relative strength of the Premier League

[Nedved]

I thought this interview with Rannocchia at Hull was interesting:

“It is fun, although there are hardly any tactics at work here. It’s mainly instinct and physical strength. The players are so strong and fast, but I am settling in well, mainly because the Italian tactical school is the best in the world, so I’m prepared for anything.”

http://app.football-italia.net/?ref...et#article/footballitalia-99924&menu=news-all

 

[JustFootballFan]

The english season for a top 6 side can have as many as 60 games(1CS+38PL+11LC+10FAC)

The spanish season 49(2SC+38+LL+9CDR)

The italian season 44(1SC+38SA+5IC)

The german season 41(1SC+34BL+6GC)

Makes you think. Is $12M in Germany really less than $15M in England? You only need to play 2/3 of the games, enjoy a nice Christmas/New Years break with the family, especially when you are from abroad. Play 20 games less each year, which accumulates to a full season over three years. So over a decade you put an additional three years of wear and tear on your body, which shortens your career.

 

[giorno]

Thanks Giorno for that detail.
Then I would think that is a factor.

Another point is foreign coaches make the point we do not have a winter break, I'm not sure if this a factor yet mention it for consideration.

Uhm, no, that post is incomplete actually. Also wrong, since for whatever reason i was thinking efl cup is two legs all the way instead of the semifinal

Still, it's true that english sides can potentially play more games then their counterparts in the other 3 top leagues. Key word here is potentially though. In truth, they generally tend to play the same number of games as the top spanish sides.

Manchester united could play 65 games this season if they reach EL final. Barcelona can play 62 by reaching CL final

 

[PieCrust]

Makes you think. Is $12M in Germany really less than $15M in England? You only need to play 2/3 of the games, enjoy a nice Christmas/New Years break with the family, especially when you are from abroad. Play 20 games less each year, which accumulates to a full season over three years. So over a decade you put an additional three years of wear and tear on your body, which shortens your career.

Very good points; quality of life is a huge consideration. I don't know how the taxes break down between the different countries, but also something to consider.

 

[do.ob]

Does every club approach every match with full force? If not then I'd rather take a look at average minutes played per player per season to get a rough understanding about how big the difference between leagues actually is.

For example for this season:
Lewandowki: 3141 minutes played
Neymar: 3096 minutes played
Sanchez: 3065 minutes played
Ronaldo: 3022 minutes played

This obviously is a tiny sample size and thus is far away from proving anything, but it suggests that just listing the number of matches a club (potentially) plays might be misleading.

 

[Balu]

Makes you think. Is $12M in Germany really less than $15M in England? You only need to play 2/3 of the games, enjoy a nice Christmas/New Years break with the family, especially when you are from abroad. Play 20 games less each year, which accumulates to a full season over three years. So over a decade you put an additional three years of wear and tear on your body, which shortens your career.

It's nowhere near 20 games though. That would include the maximum number of replays in cup games, playing every league cup and fa cup game no matter the opponent, no rotation. For example, Ibrahimovic so far this season has played 3480 minutes in all competitions for United compared to Lewandowski playing 3141 minutes. And Ibra was rarely rested or at least could have been rotated a lot more in a well functioning squad with a decent back-up striker considering United's financial strength. And both clubs have a similar number of games still to play this season, assuming both go all the way in the remaining cup competitions, it's 9 league games + 2 cup games + 5 CL games for Bayern and 11 league games + 5 EL games for United.

I still remember that argument about fatigue and playing more games in England during the World Cup in 2010, when England played Germany. Yet when you looked at the minutes the players of both teams played during the season, the likes of Lahm and Schweinsteiger had similar numbers to the top English players.

In 09/10 Schweinsteiger played 4326 minutes and Lahm 4784 for Bayern. Gerrard had 4125, Rooney 3645, Lampard 4503, Terry 4563.

You could also argue that the addtional cup games help English clubs to build a bigger squad. You earn additional money and can give young talents and quality squad players playing time. I'd love it if we had an additional league cup in Germany to give players like Sanches, Kimmich, Coman, Bernat or a loyal squad player like Rafinha more minutes on the pitch.

There's no doubt that some of the scheduling in England is brutal, especially the christmas fixtures. But the gap in minutes played is often not as big as claimed. Ferguson handled it perfectly because of his amazing ability to build strong cohesive squads and his excellent use of rotation. During United's peak years in the CL during the second half of the 00's, he regularly rested players in the CL group games and still topped the group with ease. That's the level the squads of English top clubs need to reach again, then the whole discussion about the winterbreak will become rather meaningless.

 

[Blackwidow]

Makes you think. Is $12M in Germany really less than $15M in England? You only need to play 2/3 of the games, enjoy a nice Christmas/New Years break with the family, especially when you are from abroad. Play 20 games less each year, which accumulates to a full season over three years. So over a decade you put an additional three years of wear and tear on your body, which shortens your career.

Does a player in a top club in Germany - that earns that money - really have less time for the club than a similar player in England. It is not just the matches - it is travelling, activities for fans or marketing activities for partners. Apart from the winter holiday between about December 20th and January 3rd I doubt that he has more time off - especially as he has e.g. less time with his family when he is in training camp elsewhere for 10 days in January.

 

[Celestiale]

Makes you think. Is $12M in Germany really less than $15M in England? You only need to play 2/3 of the games, enjoy a nice Christmas/New Years break with the family, especially when you are from abroad. Play 20 games less each year, which accumulates to a full season over three years. So over a decade you put an additional three years of wear and tear on your body, which shortens your career.

There are maybe 5 players around in either of those leagues combined that earn that money. The average net income is more like 3-4m in England, and probably around 1,5-2 in Germany. That is quite a difference, especially long term. You earn that kind of money for around 5 years, maybe half of that for 8 years (as a youngster, oldie), and this has to last for your whole life. There are not only Ibrahimovices and Lewandowskis with hedge fonds around...

 

[zee.robs]

The english season for a top 6 side can have as many as 60 games(1CS+38PL+11LC+10FAC)

The spanish season 49(2SC+38+LL+9CDR)

The italian season 44(1SC+38SA+5IC)

The german season 41(1SC+34BL+6GC)

I came across a discussion of minutes played on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/60q012/minutes_played_wingersattacking_mids/
They made an excel sheet with the current numbers for games per team and minutes per player: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Kn06UzykiVPAmsq-OVWk5z0Vc/edit#gid=1731228816

As of March 22:
Team League Europe Cup 1 Cup 2 Total
Monaco 30 12 3 3 48
Man United 27 10 6 4 47
Man City 28 10 2 5 45
PSG 30 8 3 3 44
Barcelona 28 8 8 44
Atletico 28 8 8 44
Roma 29 12 3 44

Wingers/AMs:
Team Player MP Total League Europe Cup 1 Cup 2
Roma Nainggolan 43/44 3431 2335 872 224
Monaco Silva 44/48 3287 2207 808 130 142
Monaco Lemar 42/48 3274 2020 957 87 210
Napoli Callejon 39/40 3272 2363 700 209
Barcelona Messi 36/44 3220 2050 630 540
Man City Sterling 38/45 3102 2072 667 27 336
Barcelona Neymar 35/44 3096 2047 617 432
Tottenham Alli 39/42 3048 2168 661 0 219

Strikers:
Team Player MP Total League Europe Cup 1 Cup 2
Atletico Griezmann 40/44 3451 2319 708 424
Man Utd Zlatan 40/47 3391 2250 718 395 28
Roma Dzeko 42/44 3284 2387 673 224
Barcelona Suarez 39/44 3261 2091 630 540
PSG Cavani 39/44 3172 2258 720 31 163
Arsenal Sanchez 38/42 3065 2269 665 0 131
Bayern Lewandowski 36/37 3051 2075 706 270

CBs
Team Player MP Total League Europe Cup 1 Cup 2
Monaco Jemerson 41/48 3747 2338 989 210 210
Monaco Glik 41/48 3660 2610 720 120 210
Leicester Morgan 38/41 3450 2430 720 120 180
PSG Marquinhos 36/44 3175 2005 720 270 180
Roma Fazio 39/44 3167 2338 649 180
Atletico Godin 36/44 3122 2160 630 332
Tottenham Dier 37/42 3119 2162 620 67 270
Leicester Huth 35/41 3109 2299 630 180 0
Man City Kolarov 36/45 3091 2173 705 45 168
Atletico Savic 36/44 3083 1984 469 630
Arsenal Koscielny 35/42 3046 2314 642 0 90
Chelsea Azpilicueta 35/35 3018 2520 0 300 198

 

[Afganitia]

I came across a discussion of minutes played on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/60q012/minutes_played_wingersattacking_mids/
They made an excel sheet with the current numbers for games per team and minutes per player: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Kn06UzykiVPAmsq-OVWk5z0Vc/edit#gid=1731228816

As of March 22:
Team League Europe Cup 1 Cup 2 Total
Monaco 30 12 3 3 48
Man United 27 10 6 4 47
Man City 28 10 2 5 45
PSG 30 8 3 3 44
Barcelona 28 8 8 44
Atletico 28 8 8 44
Roma 29 12 3 44

Wingers/AMs:
Team Player MP Total League Europe Cup 1 Cup 2
Roma Nainggolan 43/44 3431 2335 872 224
Monaco Silva 44/48 3287 2207 808 130 142
Monaco Lemar 42/48 3274 2020 957 87 210
Napoli Callejon 39/40 3272 2363 700 209
Barcelona Messi 36/44 3220 2050 630 540
Man City Sterling 38/45 3102 2072 667 27 336
Barcelona Neymar 35/44 3096 2047 617 432
Tottenham Alli 39/42 3048 2168 661 0 219

Strikers:
Team Player MP Total League Europe Cup 1 Cup 2
Atletico Griezmann 40/44 3451 2319 708 424
Man Utd Zlatan 40/47 3391 2250 718 395 28
Roma Dzeko 42/44 3284 2387 673 224
Barcelona Suarez 39/44 3261 2091 630 540
PSG Cavani 39/44 3172 2258 720 31 163
Arsenal Sanchez 38/42 3065 2269 665 0 131
Bayern Lewandowski 36/37 3051 2075 706 270

CBs
Team Player MP Total League Europe Cup 1 Cup 2
Monaco Jemerson 41/48 3747 2338 989 210 210
Monaco Glik 41/48 3660 2610 720 120 210
Leicester Morgan 38/41 3450 2430 720 120 180
PSG Marquinhos 36/44 3175 2005 720 270 180
Roma Fazio 39/44 3167 2338 649 180
Atletico Godin 36/44 3122 2160 630 332
Tottenham Dier 37/42 3119 2162 620 67 270
Leicester Huth 35/41 3109 2299 630 180 0
Man City Kolarov 36/45 3091 2173 705 45 168
Atletico Savic 36/44 3083 1984 469 630
Arsenal Koscielny 35/42 3046 2314 642 0 90
Chelsea Azpilicueta 35/35 3018 2520 0 300 198

That's some nice and interesting data. Maybe what this means is that English have a larger number of players?

 

[giorno]

Is that real or just a theory though? Chelsea ran away with the title in 2 of the last 3 seasons. I don't think there is much difference between the amount of points teams in the top 4 are getting. It may even be increasing. It is impossible to quantify what a "really tough match" is compared with 10 years ago. Back then 70-86 points usually occupied the top 4 positions. Today it is the same

Let's check!

Spoiler: 2004/05

GP W D L GF GA GD P
1 Chelsea (C) 38 29 8 1 72 15 +57 95
2 Arsenal 38 25 8 5 87 36 +51 83
3 Manchester United 38 22 11 5 58 26 +32 77
4 Everton 38 18 7 13 45 46 −1 61
5 Liverpool 38 17 7 14 52 41 +11 58
6 Bolton Wanderers 38 16 10 12 49 44 +5 58
7 Middlesbrough 38 14 13 11 53 46 +7 55
8 Manchester City 38 13 13 12 47 39 +8 52
9 Tottenham Hotspur 38 14 10 14 47 41 +6 52
10 Aston Villa 38 12 11 15 45 52 −7 47
11 Charlton Athletic 38 12 10 16 42 58 −16 46
12 Birmingham City 38 11 12 15 40 46 −6 45
13 Fulham 38 12 8 18 52 60 −8 44
14 Newcastle United 38 10 14 14 47 57 −10 44
15 Blackburn Rovers 38 9 15 14 32 43 −11 42
16 Portsmouth 38 10 9 19 43 59 −16 39
17 West Bromwich Albion 38 6 16 16 36 61 −25 34
18 Crystal Palace (R) 38 7 12 19 41 62 −21 33
19 Norwich City (R) 38 7 12 19 42 77 −35 33
20 Southampton (R) 38 6 14 18 45 66 −21 32

Spoiler: 2005/06

GP W D L GF GA GD P
1 Chelsea (C) 38 29 4 5 72 22 +50 91
2 Manchester United 38 25 8 5 72 34 +38 83
3 Liverpool 38 25 7 6 57 25 +32 82
4 Arsenal 38 20 7 11 68 31 +37 67
5 Tottenham Hotspur 38 18 11 9 53 38 +15 65
6 Blackburn Rovers 38 19 6 13 51 42 +9 63
7 Newcastle United 38 17 7 14 47 42 +5 58
8 Bolton Wanderers 38 15 11 12 49 41 +8 56
9 West Ham United 38 16 7 15 52 55 −3 55
10 Wigan Athletic 38 15 6 17 45 52 −7 51
11 Everton 38 14 8 16 34 49 −15 50
12 Fulham 38 14 6 18 48 58 −10 48
13 Charlton Athletic 38 13 8 17 41 55 −14 47
14 Middlesbrough 38 12 9 17 48 58 −10 45
15 Manchester City 38 13 4 21 43 48 −5 43
16 Aston Villa 38 10 12 16 42 55 −13 42
17 Portsmouth 38 10 8 20 37 62 −25 38
18 Birmingham City (R) 38 8 10 20 28 50 −22 34
19 West Bromwich Albion (R) 38 7 9 22 31 58 −27 30
20 Sunderland (R) 38 3 6 29 26 69 −43 15

Spoiler: 2006/07

GP W D L GF GA GD P
1 Manchester United (C) 38 28 5 5 83 27 +56 89
2 Chelsea 38 24 11 3 64 24 +40 83
3 Liverpool 38 20 8 10 57 27 +30 68
4 Arsenal 38 19 11 8 63 35 +28 68
5 Tottenham Hotspur 38 17 9 12 57 54 +3 60
6 Everton 38 15 13 10 52 36 +16 58
7 Bolton Wanderers 38 16 8 14 47 52 −5 56
8 Reading 38 16 7 15 52 47 +5 55
9 Portsmouth 38 14 12 12 45 42 +3 54
10 Blackburn Rovers 38 15 7 16 52 54 −2 52
11 Aston Villa 38 11 17 10 43 41 +2 50
12 Middlesbrough 38 12 10 16 44 49 −5 46
13 Newcastle United 38 11 10 17 38 47 −9 43
14 Manchester City 38 11 9 18 29 44 −15 42
15 West Ham United 38 12 5 21 35 59 −24 41
16 Fulham 38 8 15 15 38 60 −22 39
17 Wigan Athletic 38 10 8 20 37 59 −22 38
18 Sheffield United (R) 38 10 8 20 32 55 −23 38
19 Charlton Athletic (R) 38 8 10 20 34 60 −26 34
20 Watford (R) 38 5 13 20 29 59 −30 28

Spoiler: 2007/08

GP W D L GF GA GD P
1 Manchester United (C) 38 27 6 5 80 22 +58 87
2 Chelsea 38 25 10 3 65 26 +39 85
3 Arsenal 38 24 11 3 74 31 +43 83
4 Liverpool 38 21 13 4 67 28 +39 76
5 Everton 38 19 8 11 55 33 +22 65
6 Aston Villa 38 16 12 10 71 51 +20 60
7 Blackburn Rovers 38 15 13 10 50 48 +2 58
8 Portsmouth 38 16 9 13 48 40 +8 57
9 Manchester City 38 15 10 13 45 53 −8 55
10 West Ham United 38 13 10 15 42 50 −8 49
11 Tottenham Hotspur 38 11 13 14 66 61 +5 46
12 Newcastle United 38 11 10 17 45 65 −20 43
13 Middlesbrough 38 10 12 16 43 53 −10 42
14 Wigan Athletic 38 10 10 18 34 51 −17 40
15 Sunderland 38 11 6 21 36 59 −23 39
16 Bolton Wanderers 38 9 10 19 36 54 −18 37
17 Fulham 38 8 12 18 38 60 −22 36
18 Reading (R) 38 10 6 22 41 66 −25 36
19 Birmingham City (R) 38 8 11 19 46 62 −16 35
20 Derby County (R) 38 1 8 29 20 89 −69 11

Spoiler: 2008/09

GP W D L GF GA GD P
1 Manchester United (C) 38 28 6 4 68 24 +44 90
2 Liverpool 38 25 11 2 77 27 +50 86
3 Chelsea 38 25 8 5 68 24 +44 83
4 Arsenal 38 20 12 6 68 37 +31 72
5 Everton 38 17 12 9 55 37 +18 63
6 Aston Villa 38 17 11 10 54 48 +6 62
7 Fulham 38 14 11 13 39 34 +5 53
8 Tottenham Hotspur 38 14 9 15 45 45 0 51
9 West Ham United 38 14 9 15 42 45 −3 51
10 Manchester City 38 15 5 18 58 50 +8 50
11 Wigan Athletic 38 12 9 17 34 45 −11 45
12 Stoke City 38 12 9 17 38 55 −17 45
13 Bolton Wanderers 38 11 8 19 41 53 −12 41
14 Portsmouth 38 10 11 17 38 57 −19 41
15 Blackburn Rovers 38 10 11 17 40 60 −20 41
16 Sunderland 38 9 9 20 34 54 −20 36
17 Hull City 38 8 11 19 39 64 −25 35
18 Newcastle United (R) 38 7 13 18 40 59 −19 34
19 Middlesbrough (R) 38 7 11 20 28 57 −29 32
20 West Bromwich Albion (R) 38 8 8 22 36 67 −31 32

Spoiler: 2009/2010

GP W D L GF GA GD P
1 Chelsea (C) 38 27 5 6 103 32 +71 86
2 Manchester United 38 27 4 7 86 28 +58 85
3 Arsenal 38 23 6 9 83 41 +42 75
4 Tottenham Hotspur 38 21 7 10 67 41 +26 70
5 Manchester City 38 18 13 7 73 45 +28 67
6 Aston Villa 38 17 13 8 52 39 +13 64
7 Liverpool 38 18 9 11 61 35 +26 63
8 Everton 38 16 13 9 60 49 +11 61
9 Birmingham City 38 13 11 14 38 47 −9 50
10 Blackburn Rovers 38 13 11 14 41 55 −14 50
11 Stoke City 38 11 14 13 34 48 −14 47
12 Fulham 38 12 10 16 39 46 −7 46
13 Sunderland 38 11 11 16 48 56 −8 44
14 Bolton Wanderers 38 10 9 19 42 67 −25 39
15 Wolverhampton Wanderers 38 9 11 18 32 56 −24 38
16 Wigan Athletic 38 9 9 20 37 79 −42 36
17 West Ham United 38 8 11 19 47 66 −19 35
18 Burnley (R) 38 8 6 24 42 82 −40 30
19 Hull City (R) 38 6 12 20 34 75 −41 30
20 Portsmouth (R) 38 7 7 24 34 66 −32 19(docked 9 points)

Spoiler: 2010/11

GP W D L GF GA GD P
1 Manchester United (C) 38 23 11 4 78 37 +41 80
2 Chelsea 38 21 8 9 69 33 +36 71
3 Manchester City 38 21 8 9 60 33 +27 71
4 Arsenal 38 19 11 8 72 43 +29 68
5 Tottenham Hotspur 38 16 14 8 55 46 +9 62
6 Liverpool 38 17 7 14 59 44 +15 58
7 Everton 38 13 15 10 51 45 +6 54
8 Fulham 38 11 16 11 49 43 +6 49
9 Aston Villa 38 12 12 14 48 59 −11 48
10 Sunderland 38 12 11 15 45 56 −11 47
11 West Bromwich Albion 38 12 11 15 56 71 −15 47
12 Newcastle United 38 11 13 14 56 57 −1 46
13 Stoke City 38 13 7 18 46 48 −2 46
14 Bolton Wanderers 38 12 10 16 52 56 −4 46
15 Blackburn Rovers 38 11 10 17 46 59 −13 43
16 Wigan Athletic 38 9 15 14 40 61 −21 42
17 Wolverhampton Wanderers 38 11 7 20 46 66 −20 40
18 Birmingham City (R) 38 8 15 15 37 58 –21 39
19 Blackpool (R) 38 10 9 19 55 78 −23 39
20 West Ham United (R) 38 7 12 19 43 70 −27 33

Spoiler: 2011/12

GP W D L GF GA GD P
1 Manchester City (C) 38 28 5 5 93 29 +64 89
2 Manchester United 38 28 5 5 89 33 +56 89
3 Arsenal 38 21 7 10 74 49 +25 70
4 Tottenham Hotspur 38 20 9 9 66 41 +25 69
5 Newcastle United 38 19 8 11 56 51 +5 65
6 Chelsea 38 18 10 10 65 46 +19 64
7 Everton 38 15 11 12 50 40 +10 56
8 Liverpool 38 14 10 14 47 40 +7 52
9 Fulham 38 14 10 14 48 51 −3 52
10 West Bromwich Albion 38 13 8 17 45 52 −7 47
11 Swansea City 38 12 11 15 44 51 −7 47
12 Norwich City 38 12 11 15 52 66 −14 47
13 Sunderland 38 11 12 15 45 46 −1 45
14 Stoke City 38 11 12 15 36 53 −17 45
15 Wigan Athletic 38 11 10 17 42 62 −20 43
16 Aston Villa 38 7 17 14 37 53 −16 38
17 Queens Park Rangers 38 10 7 21 43 66 −23 37
18 Bolton Wanderers (R) 38 10 6 22 46 77 −31 36
19 Blackburn Rovers (R) 38 8 7 23 48 78 −30 31
20 Wolverhampton Wanderers (R) 38 5 10 23 40 82 −42 25

Spoiler: 2012/13

GP W D L GF GA GD P
1 Manchester United (C) 38 28 5 5 86 43 +43 89
2 Manchester City 38 23 9 6 66 34 +32 78
3 Chelsea 38 22 9 7 75 39 +36 75
4 Arsenal 38 21 10 7 72 37 +35 73
5 Tottenham Hotspur 38 21 9 8 66 46 +20 72
6 Everton 38 16 15 7 55 40 +15 63
7 Liverpool 38 16 13 9 71 43 +28 61
8 West Bromwich Albion 38 14 7 17 53 57 −4 49
9 Swansea City 38 11 13 14 47 51 −4 46
10 West Ham United 38 12 10 16 45 53 −8 46
11 Norwich City 38 10 14 14 41 58 −17 44
12 Fulham 38 11 10 17 50 60 −10 43
13 Stoke City 38 9 15 14 34 45 −11 42
14 Southampton 38 9 14 15 49 60 −11 41
15 Aston Villa 38 10 11 17 47 69 −22 41
16 Newcastle United 38 11 8 19 45 68 −23 41
17 Sunderland 38 9 12 17 41 54 −13 39
18 Wigan Athletic (R) 38 9 9 20 47 73 –26 36
19 Reading (R) 38 6 10 22 43 73 −30 28
20 Queens Park Rangers (R) 38 4 13 21 30 60 −30 25

Spoiler: 2013/14

GP W D L GF GA GD P
1 Manchester City (C) 38 27 5 6 102 37 +65 86
2 Liverpool 38 26 6 6 101 50 +51 84
3 Chelsea 38 25 7 6 71 27 +44 82
4 Arsenal 38 24 7 7 68 41 +27 79
5 Everton 38 21 9 8 61 39 +22 72
6 Tottenham Hotspur 38 21 6 11 55 51 +4 69
7 Manchester United 38 19 7 12 64 43 +21 64
8 Southampton 38 15 11 12 54 46 +8 56
9 Stoke City 38 13 11 14 45 52 −7 50
10 Newcastle United 38 15 4 19 43 59 −16 49
11 Crystal Palace 38 13 6 19 33 48 −15 45
12 Swansea City 38 11 9 18 54 54 0 42
13 West Ham United 38 11 7 20 40 51 −11 40
14 Sunderland 38 10 8 20 41 60 −19 38
15 Aston Villa 38 10 8 20 39 61 −22 38
16 Hull City 38 10 7 21 38 53 −15 37
17 West Bromwich Albion 38 7 15 16 43 59 −16 36
18 Norwich City (R) 38 8 9 21 28 62 −34 33
19 Fulham (R) 38 9 5 24 40 85 −45 32
20 Cardiff City (R) 38 7 9 22 32 74 −42 30

Spoiler: 2014/15

GP W D L GF GA GD P
1 Chelsea (C) 38 26 9 3 73 32 +41 87
2 Manchester City 38 24 7 7 83 38 +45 79
3 Arsenal 38 22 9 7 71 36 +35 75
4 Manchester United 38 20 10 8 62 37 +25 70
5 Tottenham Hotspur 38 19 7 12 58 53 +5 64
6 Liverpool 38 18 8 12 52 48 +4 62
7 Southampton 38 18 6 14 54 33 +21 60
8 Swansea City 38 16 8 14 46 49 −3 56
9 Stoke City 38 15 9 14 48 45 +3 54
10 Crystal Palace 38 13 9 16 47 51 −4 48
11 Everton 38 12 11 15 48 50 −2 47
12 West Ham United 38 12 11 15 44 47 −3 47
13 West Bromwich Albion 38 11 11 16 38 51 −13 44
14 Leicester City 38 11 8 19 46 55 −9 41
15 Newcastle United 38 10 9 19 40 63 −23 39
16 Sunderland 38 7 17 14 31 53 −22 38
17 Aston Villa 38 10 8 20 31 57 −26 38
18 Hull City (R) 38 8 11 19 33 51 −18 35
19 Burnley (R) 38 7 12 19 28 53 −25 33
20 Queens Park Rangers (R) 38 8 6 24 42 73 −31 30

Spoiler: 2015/16

GP W D L GF GA GD P
1 Leicester City (C) 38 23 12 3 68 36 +32 81
2 Arsenal 38 20 11 7 65 36 +29 71
3 Tottenham Hotspur 38 19 13 6 69 35 +34 70
4 Manchester City 38 19 9 10 71 41 +30 66
5 Manchester United 38 19 9 10 49 35 +14 66
6 Southampton 38 18 9 11 59 41 +18 63
7 West Ham United 38 16 14 8 65 51 +14 62
8 Liverpool 38 16 12 10 63 50 +13 60
9 Stoke City 38 14 9 15 41 55 −14 51
10 Chelsea 38 12 14 12 59 53 +6 50
11 Everton 38 11 14 13 59 55 +4 47
12 Swansea City 38 12 11 15 42 52 −10 47
13 Watford 38 12 9 17 40 50 −10 45
14 West Bromwich Albion 38 10 13 15 34 48 −14 43
15 Crystal Palace 38 11 9 18 39 51 −12 42
16 AFC Bournemouth 38 11 9 18 45 67 −22 42
17 Sunderland 38 9 12 17 48 62 −14 39
18 Newcastle United (R) 38 9 10 19 44 65 −21 37
19 Norwich City (R) 38 9 7 22 39 67 −28 34
20 Aston Villa (R) 38 3 8 27 27 76 −49 17

Spoiler: 2016/17

GP W D L GF GA GD P
1 Chelsea 28 22 3 3 59 21 +38 69
2 Tottenham Hotspur 28 17 8 3 55 21 +34 59
3 Manchester City 28 17 6 5 54 30 +24 57
4 Liverpool 29 16 8 5 61 36 +25 56
5 Manchester United 27 14 10 3 42 23 +19 52
6 Arsenal 27 15 5 7 56 34 +22 50
7 Everton 29 14 8 7 51 30 +21 50
8 West Bromwich Albion 29 12 7 10 39 38 +1 43
9 Stoke City 29 9 9 11 33 42 −9 36
10 Southampton 27 9 6 12 33 36 −3 33
11 AFC Bournemouth 29 9 6 14 42 54 −12 33
12 West Ham United 29 9 6 14 40 52 −12 33
13 Burnley 29 9 5 15 31 42 −11 32
14 Watford 28 8 7 13 33 48 −15 31
15 Leicester City 28 8 6 14 33 47 −14 30
16 Crystal Palace 28 8 4 16 36 46 −10 28
17 Swansea City 29 8 3 18 36 63 −27 27
18 Hull City 29 6 6 17 26 58 −32 24
19 Middlesbrough 28 4 10 14 20 33 −13 22
20 Sunderland 28 5 5 18 24 50 −26 20

Now, if we take a look at the number of games the top 5 won by 3 or more goals(i.e. relatively easy games):

Spoiler

2004/05: 26
2005/06: 24
2006/07: 34
2007/08: 28
2008/09: 28
2009/10: 46
2010/11: 22
2011/12: 34
2012/13: 23
2013/14: 38
2014/15: 26
2015/16: 32
2016/17: 18 so far

the standard of players the alleged smaller clubs are getting with all the new money is a totally different ball game to 10 years back.

Care to back this up with examples?

And, it was generally just a couple of good teams and the rest were also rans....now there are 6/7 big teams at the top and bar Chelsea the fight for the top 4 is intense as its ever been. As for teams giving you a tough match...ask Liverpool.

A look at the final table would suggest that to be the case now, too. The current season is an anomaly, in that there's only 1 team running away with the title, while the others behind aren't bad enough to be also-rans, but also not good enough to challenge

 

[Stacks]

Let's check!

Spoiler: 2004/05

GP W D L GF GA GD P
1 Chelsea (C) 38 29 8 1 72 15 +57 95
2 Arsenal 38 25 8 5 87 36 +51 83
3 Manchester United 38 22 11 5 58 26 +32 77
4 Everton 38 18 7 13 45 46 −1 61
5 Liverpool 38 17 7 14 52 41 +11 58
6 Bolton Wanderers 38 16 10 12 49 44 +5 58
7 Middlesbrough 38 14 13 11 53 46 +7 55
8 Manchester City 38 13 13 12 47 39 +8 52
9 Tottenham Hotspur 38 14 10 14 47 41 +6 52
10 Aston Villa 38 12 11 15 45 52 −7 47
11 Charlton Athletic 38 12 10 16 42 58 −16 46
12 Birmingham City 38 11 12 15 40 46 −6 45
13 Fulham 38 12 8 18 52 60 −8 44
14 Newcastle United 38 10 14 14 47 57 −10 44
15 Blackburn Rovers 38 9 15 14 32 43 −11 42
16 Portsmouth 38 10 9 19 43 59 −16 39
17 West Bromwich Albion 38 6 16 16 36 61 −25 34
18 Crystal Palace (R) 38 7 12 19 41 62 −21 33
19 Norwich City (R) 38 7 12 19 42 77 −35 33
20 Southampton (R) 38 6 14 18 45 66 −21 32

Spoiler: 2005/06

GP W D L GF GA GD P
1 Chelsea (C) 38 29 4 5 72 22 +50 91
2 Manchester United 38 25 8 5 72 34 +38 83
3 Liverpool 38 25 7 6 57 25 +32 82
4 Arsenal 38 20 7 11 68 31 +37 67
5 Tottenham Hotspur 38 18 11 9 53 38 +15 65
6 Blackburn Rovers 38 19 6 13 51 42 +9 63
7 Newcastle United 38 17 7 14 47 42 +5 58
8 Bolton Wanderers 38 15 11 12 49 41 +8 56
9 West Ham United 38 16 7 15 52 55 −3 55
10 Wigan Athletic 38 15 6 17 45 52 −7 51
11 Everton 38 14 8 16 34 49 −15 50
12 Fulham 38 14 6 18 48 58 −10 48
13 Charlton Athletic 38 13 8 17 41 55 −14 47
14 Middlesbrough 38 12 9 17 48 58 −10 45
15 Manchester City 38 13 4 21 43 48 −5 43
16 Aston Villa 38 10 12 16 42 55 −13 42
17 Portsmouth 38 10 8 20 37 62 −25 38
18 Birmingham City (R) 38 8 10 20 28 50 −22 34
19 West Bromwich Albion (R) 38 7 9 22 31 58 −27 30
20 Sunderland (R) 38 3 6 29 26 69 −43 15

Spoiler: 2006/07

GP W D L GF GA GD P
1 Manchester United (C) 38 28 5 5 83 27 +56 89
2 Chelsea 38 24 11 3 64 24 +40 83
3 Liverpool 38 20 8 10 57 27 +30 68
4 Arsenal 38 19 11 8 63 35 +28 68
5 Tottenham Hotspur 38 17 9 12 57 54 +3 60
6 Everton 38 15 13 10 52 36 +16 58
7 Bolton Wanderers 38 16 8 14 47 52 −5 56
8 Reading 38 16 7 15 52 47 +5 55
9 Portsmouth 38 14 12 12 45 42 +3 54
10 Blackburn Rovers 38 15 7 16 52 54 −2 52
11 Aston Villa 38 11 17 10 43 41 +2 50
12 Middlesbrough 38 12 10 16 44 49 −5 46
13 Newcastle United 38 11 10 17 38 47 −9 43
14 Manchester City 38 11 9 18 29 44 −15 42
15 West Ham United 38 12 5 21 35 59 −24 41
16 Fulham 38 8 15 15 38 60 −22 39
17 Wigan Athletic 38 10 8 20 37 59 −22 38
18 Sheffield United (R) 38 10 8 20 32 55 −23 38
19 Charlton Athletic (R) 38 8 10 20 34 60 −26 34
20 Watford (R) 38 5 13 20 29 59 −30 28

Spoiler: 2007/08

GP W D L GF GA GD P
1 Manchester United (C) 38 27 6 5 80 22 +58 87
2 Chelsea 38 25 10 3 65 26 +39 85
3 Arsenal 38 24 11 3 74 31 +43 83
4 Liverpool 38 21 13 4 67 28 +39 76
5 Everton 38 19 8 11 55 33 +22 65
6 Aston Villa 38 16 12 10 71 51 +20 60
7 Blackburn Rovers 38 15 13 10 50 48 +2 58
8 Portsmouth 38 16 9 13 48 40 +8 57
9 Manchester City 38 15 10 13 45 53 −8 55
10 West Ham United 38 13 10 15 42 50 −8 49
11 Tottenham Hotspur 38 11 13 14 66 61 +5 46
12 Newcastle United 38 11 10 17 45 65 −20 43
13 Middlesbrough 38 10 12 16 43 53 −10 42
14 Wigan Athletic 38 10 10 18 34 51 −17 40
15 Sunderland 38 11 6 21 36 59 −23 39
16 Bolton Wanderers 38 9 10 19 36 54 −18 37
17 Fulham 38 8 12 18 38 60 −22 36
18 Reading (R) 38 10 6 22 41 66 −25 36
19 Birmingham City (R) 38 8 11 19 46 62 −16 35
20 Derby County (R) 38 1 8 29 20 89 −69 11

Spoiler: 2008/09

GP W D L GF GA GD P
1 Manchester United (C) 38 28 6 4 68 24 +44 90
2 Liverpool 38 25 11 2 77 27 +50 86
3 Chelsea 38 25 8 5 68 24 +44 83
4 Arsenal 38 20 12 6 68 37 +31 72
5 Everton 38 17 12 9 55 37 +18 63
6 Aston Villa 38 17 11 10 54 48 +6 62
7 Fulham 38 14 11 13 39 34 +5 53
8 Tottenham Hotspur 38 14 9 15 45 45 0 51
9 West Ham United 38 14 9 15 42 45 −3 51
10 Manchester City 38 15 5 18 58 50 +8 50
11 Wigan Athletic 38 12 9 17 34 45 −11 45
12 Stoke City 38 12 9 17 38 55 −17 45
13 Bolton Wanderers 38 11 8 19 41 53 −12 41
14 Portsmouth 38 10 11 17 38 57 −19 41
15 Blackburn Rovers 38 10 11 17 40 60 −20 41
16 Sunderland 38 9 9 20 34 54 −20 36
17 Hull City 38 8 11 19 39 64 −25 35
18 Newcastle United (R) 38 7 13 18 40 59 −19 34
19 Middlesbrough (R) 38 7 11 20 28 57 −29 32
20 West Bromwich Albion (R) 38 8 8 22 36 67 −31 32

Spoiler: 2009/2010

GP W D L GF GA GD P
1 Chelsea (C) 38 27 5 6 103 32 +71 86
2 Manchester United 38 27 4 7 86 28 +58 85
3 Arsenal 38 23 6 9 83 41 +42 75
4 Tottenham Hotspur 38 21 7 10 67 41 +26 70
5 Manchester City 38 18 13 7 73 45 +28 67
6 Aston Villa 38 17 13 8 52 39 +13 64
7 Liverpool 38 18 9 11 61 35 +26 63
8 Everton 38 16 13 9 60 49 +11 61
9 Birmingham City 38 13 11 14 38 47 −9 50
10 Blackburn Rovers 38 13 11 14 41 55 −14 50
11 Stoke City 38 11 14 13 34 48 −14 47
12 Fulham 38 12 10 16 39 46 −7 46
13 Sunderland 38 11 11 16 48 56 −8 44
14 Bolton Wanderers 38 10 9 19 42 67 −25 39
15 Wolverhampton Wanderers 38 9 11 18 32 56 −24 38
16 Wigan Athletic 38 9 9 20 37 79 −42 36
17 West Ham United 38 8 11 19 47 66 −19 35
18 Burnley (R) 38 8 6 24 42 82 −40 30
19 Hull City (R) 38 6 12 20 34 75 −41 30
20 Portsmouth (R) 38 7 7 24 34 66 −32 19(docked 9 points)

Spoiler: 2010/11

GP W D L GF GA GD P
1 Manchester United (C) 38 23 11 4 78 37 +41 80
2 Chelsea 38 21 8 9 69 33 +36 71
3 Manchester City 38 21 8 9 60 33 +27 71
4 Arsenal 38 19 11 8 72 43 +29 68
5 Tottenham Hotspur 38 16 14 8 55 46 +9 62
6 Liverpool 38 17 7 14 59 44 +15 58
7 Everton 38 13 15 10 51 45 +6 54
8 Fulham 38 11 16 11 49 43 +6 49
9 Aston Villa 38 12 12 14 48 59 −11 48
10 Sunderland 38 12 11 15 45 56 −11 47
11 West Bromwich Albion 38 12 11 15 56 71 −15 47
12 Newcastle United 38 11 13 14 56 57 −1 46
13 Stoke City 38 13 7 18 46 48 −2 46
14 Bolton Wanderers 38 12 10 16 52 56 −4 46
15 Blackburn Rovers 38 11 10 17 46 59 −13 43
16 Wigan Athletic 38 9 15 14 40 61 −21 42
17 Wolverhampton Wanderers 38 11 7 20 46 66 −20 40
18 Birmingham City (R) 38 8 15 15 37 58 –21 39
19 Blackpool (R) 38 10 9 19 55 78 −23 39
20 West Ham United (R) 38 7 12 19 43 70 −27 33

Spoiler: 2011/12

GP W D L GF GA GD P
1 Manchester City (C) 38 28 5 5 93 29 +64 89
2 Manchester United 38 28 5 5 89 33 +56 89
3 Arsenal 38 21 7 10 74 49 +25 70
4 Tottenham Hotspur 38 20 9 9 66 41 +25 69
5 Newcastle United 38 19 8 11 56 51 +5 65
6 Chelsea 38 18 10 10 65 46 +19 64
7 Everton 38 15 11 12 50 40 +10 56
8 Liverpool 38 14 10 14 47 40 +7 52
9 Fulham 38 14 10 14 48 51 −3 52
10 West Bromwich Albion 38 13 8 17 45 52 −7 47
11 Swansea City 38 12 11 15 44 51 −7 47
12 Norwich City 38 12 11 15 52 66 −14 47
13 Sunderland 38 11 12 15 45 46 −1 45
14 Stoke City 38 11 12 15 36 53 −17 45
15 Wigan Athletic 38 11 10 17 42 62 −20 43
16 Aston Villa 38 7 17 14 37 53 −16 38
17 Queens Park Rangers 38 10 7 21 43 66 −23 37
18 Bolton Wanderers (R) 38 10 6 22 46 77 −31 36
19 Blackburn Rovers (R) 38 8 7 23 48 78 −30 31
20 Wolverhampton Wanderers (R) 38 5 10 23 40 82 −42 25

Spoiler: 2012/13

GP W D L GF GA GD P
1 Manchester United (C) 38 28 5 5 86 43 +43 89
2 Manchester City 38 23 9 6 66 34 +32 78
3 Chelsea 38 22 9 7 75 39 +36 75
4 Arsenal 38 21 10 7 72 37 +35 73
5 Tottenham Hotspur 38 21 9 8 66 46 +20 72
6 Everton 38 16 15 7 55 40 +15 63
7 Liverpool 38 16 13 9 71 43 +28 61
8 West Bromwich Albion 38 14 7 17 53 57 −4 49
9 Swansea City 38 11 13 14 47 51 −4 46
10 West Ham United 38 12 10 16 45 53 −8 46
11 Norwich City 38 10 14 14 41 58 −17 44
12 Fulham 38 11 10 17 50 60 −10 43
13 Stoke City 38 9 15 14 34 45 −11 42
14 Southampton 38 9 14 15 49 60 −11 41
15 Aston Villa 38 10 11 17 47 69 −22 41
16 Newcastle United 38 11 8 19 45 68 −23 41
17 Sunderland 38 9 12 17 41 54 −13 39
18 Wigan Athletic (R) 38 9 9 20 47 73 –26 36
19 Reading (R) 38 6 10 22 43 73 −30 28
20 Queens Park Rangers (R) 38 4 13 21 30 60 −30 25

Spoiler: 2013/14

GP W D L GF GA GD P
1 Manchester City (C) 38 27 5 6 102 37 +65 86
2 Liverpool 38 26 6 6 101 50 +51 84
3 Chelsea 38 25 7 6 71 27 +44 82
4 Arsenal 38 24 7 7 68 41 +27 79
5 Everton 38 21 9 8 61 39 +22 72
6 Tottenham Hotspur 38 21 6 11 55 51 +4 69
7 Manchester United 38 19 7 12 64 43 +21 64
8 Southampton 38 15 11 12 54 46 +8 56
9 Stoke City 38 13 11 14 45 52 −7 50
10 Newcastle United 38 15 4 19 43 59 −16 49
11 Crystal Palace 38 13 6 19 33 48 −15 45
12 Swansea City 38 11 9 18 54 54 0 42
13 West Ham United 38 11 7 20 40 51 −11 40
14 Sunderland 38 10 8 20 41 60 −19 38
15 Aston Villa 38 10 8 20 39 61 −22 38
16 Hull City 38 10 7 21 38 53 −15 37
17 West Bromwich Albion 38 7 15 16 43 59 −16 36
18 Norwich City (R) 38 8 9 21 28 62 −34 33
19 Fulham (R) 38 9 5 24 40 85 −45 32
20 Cardiff City (R) 38 7 9 22 32 74 −42 30

Spoiler: 2014/15

GP W D L GF GA GD P
1 Chelsea (C) 38 26 9 3 73 32 +41 87
2 Manchester City 38 24 7 7 83 38 +45 79
3 Arsenal 38 22 9 7 71 36 +35 75
4 Manchester United 38 20 10 8 62 37 +25 70
5 Tottenham Hotspur 38 19 7 12 58 53 +5 64
6 Liverpool 38 18 8 12 52 48 +4 62
7 Southampton 38 18 6 14 54 33 +21 60
8 Swansea City 38 16 8 14 46 49 −3 56
9 Stoke City 38 15 9 14 48 45 +3 54
10 Crystal Palace 38 13 9 16 47 51 −4 48
11 Everton 38 12 11 15 48 50 −2 47
12 West Ham United 38 12 11 15 44 47 −3 47
13 West Bromwich Albion 38 11 11 16 38 51 −13 44
14 Leicester City 38 11 8 19 46 55 −9 41
15 Newcastle United 38 10 9 19 40 63 −23 39
16 Sunderland 38 7 17 14 31 53 −22 38
17 Aston Villa 38 10 8 20 31 57 −26 38
18 Hull City (R) 38 8 11 19 33 51 −18 35
19 Burnley (R) 38 7 12 19 28 53 −25 33
20 Queens Park Rangers (R) 38 8 6 24 42 73 −31 30

Spoiler: 2015/16

GP W D L GF GA GD P
1 Leicester City (C) 38 23 12 3 68 36 +32 81
2 Arsenal 38 20 11 7 65 36 +29 71
3 Tottenham Hotspur 38 19 13 6 69 35 +34 70
4 Manchester City 38 19 9 10 71 41 +30 66
5 Manchester United 38 19 9 10 49 35 +14 66
6 Southampton 38 18 9 11 59 41 +18 63
7 West Ham United 38 16 14 8 65 51 +14 62
8 Liverpool 38 16 12 10 63 50 +13 60
9 Stoke City 38 14 9 15 41 55 −14 51
10 Chelsea 38 12 14 12 59 53 +6 50
11 Everton 38 11 14 13 59 55 +4 47
12 Swansea City 38 12 11 15 42 52 −10 47
13 Watford 38 12 9 17 40 50 −10 45
14 West Bromwich Albion 38 10 13 15 34 48 −14 43
15 Crystal Palace 38 11 9 18 39 51 −12 42
16 AFC Bournemouth 38 11 9 18 45 67 −22 42
17 Sunderland 38 9 12 17 48 62 −14 39
18 Newcastle United (R) 38 9 10 19 44 65 −21 37
19 Norwich City (R) 38 9 7 22 39 67 −28 34
20 Aston Villa (R) 38 3 8 27 27 76 −49 17

Spoiler: 2016/17

GP W D L GF GA GD P
1 Chelsea 28 22 3 3 59 21 +38 69
2 Tottenham Hotspur 28 17 8 3 55 21 +34 59
3 Manchester City 28 17 6 5 54 30 +24 57
4 Liverpool 29 16 8 5 61 36 +25 56
5 Manchester United 27 14 10 3 42 23 +19 52
6 Arsenal 27 15 5 7 56 34 +22 50
7 Everton 29 14 8 7 51 30 +21 50
8 West Bromwich Albion 29 12 7 10 39 38 +1 43
9 Stoke City 29 9 9 11 33 42 −9 36
10 Southampton 27 9 6 12 33 36 −3 33
11 AFC Bournemouth 29 9 6 14 42 54 −12 33
12 West Ham United 29 9 6 14 40 52 −12 33
13 Burnley 29 9 5 15 31 42 −11 32
14 Watford 28 8 7 13 33 48 −15 31
15 Leicester City 28 8 6 14 33 47 −14 30
16 Crystal Palace 28 8 4 16 36 46 −10 28
17 Swansea City 29 8 3 18 36 63 −27 27
18 Hull City 29 6 6 17 26 58 −32 24
19 Middlesbrough 28 4 10 14 20 33 −13 22
20 Sunderland 28 5 5 18 24 50 −26 20

Now, if we take a look at the number of games the top 5 won by 3 or more goals(i.e. relatively easy games):

Spoiler

2004/05: 26
2005/06: 24
2006/07: 34
2007/08: 28
2008/09: 28
2009/10: 46
2010/11: 22
2011/12: 34
2012/13: 23
2013/14: 38
2014/15: 26
2015/16: 32
2016/17: 18 so far

Care to back this up with examples?


A look at the final table would suggest that to be the case now, too. The current season is an anomaly, in that there's only 1 team running away with the title, while the others behind aren't bad enough to be also-rans, but also not good enough to challenge

I'm not actually able to conclude anything from the data unfortunately. Its just as random and chaotic as the football itself. But thanks for the research as I was too lazy!

 

[BonkersIam]

its not the points won or lost but matches certainly seem a lot closer in results, a lot harder for the alleged better team to win etc plus just about every ex pro/pundit seems to say its harder for the big 6 (it used to be big 4 not so long back) due to the money in the game now.

Smaller clubs are certainly in the market for players they could only have dreamed of 10-15 years ago and that goes into the championship as well. If they do come across a gem ( which occasionaly they did years back) it is now easier to keep him and match wages demands than before

 

[Stacks]

its not the points won or lost but matches certainly seem a lot closer in results, a lot harder for the alleged better team to win etc plus just about every ex pro/pundit seems to say its harder for the big 6 (it used to be big 4 not so long back) due to the money in the game now

How do you work this out though? very recently City won with GD of +60 which is the highest I can recall. I still don't think its conclusive and we can factor in that our top sides aren't as strong. Chelsea in 2005 raised the bar. we had to catch up and did. Now the bar is such that Leicester have won it and a questionable Chelsea team

 

[BonkersIam]

How do you work this out though? very recently City won with GD of +60 which is the highest I can recall. I still don't think its conclusive and we can factor in that our top sides aren't as strong. Chelsea in 2005 raised the bar. we had to catch up and did. Now the bar is such that Leicester have won it and a questionable Chelsea team

well a big 4 now being a big 6 is a start

 

[Stacks]

well a big 4 now being a big 6 is a start

What is a "big 6". All 6 of the top 6 are not realistic title challengers as we discovered once the season unraveled. We have 6 going for top 4 places which we had in the past too.

 

[giorno]

its not the points won or lost but matches certainly seem a lot closer in results, a lot harder for the alleged better team to win etc plus just about every ex pro/pundit seems to say its harder for the big 6 (it used to be big 4 not so long back) due to the money in the game now.

TV pundits tend to talk a lot of shite though. You rarely see them actually making a well-researched, well-documented point. I mean, did Manchester City really had more difficult games in 2013/14 than United in 2007/08?

Smaller clubs are certainly in the market for players they could only have dreamed of 10-15 years ago and that goes into the championship as well. If they do come across a gem ( which occasionaly they did years back) it is now easier to keep him and match wages demands than before

Agree with the bolded part, but as for the rest...can you name 5 examples?

 

[do.ob]

I think it's quite impressive how this "the top teams haven't gotten weaker, the bottom teams have actually gotten stronger" theory prevails, despite Leicester running away with the title last season and Chelsea this season. I mean both of them don't have world class squads and yet Chelsea in particular deliver a PpG ratio that's on par with or better than Juventus/Bayern/Real/Barca.

 

[Stacks]

I think it's quite impressive how this "the top teams haven't gotten weaker, the bottom teams have actually gotten stronger" theory prevails, despite Leicester running away with the title last season and Chelsea this season. I mean both of them don't have world class squads and yet Chelsea in particular deliver a PpG ratio that's on par with or better than Juventus/Bayern/Real/Barca.

Its a theory and I don't know where it started. May even have been redcafe. Someone got excited by the prospect of all this new money coming into the prem and thought that meant we would have some super league where our top teams will dominate in the champions league and the mid level will be really good too. Basically we would dominate all of Europe and have all these top players in our league. Now that it has proven a mistake, the message is that it is now too hard to compete in both Europe and the league, as the rest of the league is too strong (still shite in europe though) but they are too taxing for us at the top.

 

[Wumminator]

Just to point out that despite taking incredible flack for the opinion that l
la Liga has easier teams, the Celta Vigo equivalent in the premier league is Leicester City.

 

[adexkola]

Just to point out that despite taking incredible flack for the opinion that l
la Liga has easier teams, the Celta Vigo equivalent in the premier league is Leicester City.

Your point is?

 

[Wumminator]

Your point is?

They are clearly fecking abysmal.

 

[donkeyfish]

They certainly played better than Leicester did at OT e.g., but probably worse than other Leicester performances this season. One game is a bit thin to compare.

 

[Scarecrow]

Leicester were still the champions of England last time I checked.

 

[adexkola]

Leicester were still the champions of England last time I checked.

... who crashed out against Atletico in the quarter finals, doing the square root of feck all in that tie.

 

[Ridge Racer]

oh yeah, because "the biggest club in the world" defeated the 11th placed la liga team with a freekick, that means that wumminator is right and la liga is shite

 

[AXVnee7]

Was disappointed by Celta Vigo, if they beat Barca and Madrid then they must be just as terrible at finishing as we are

Like we didn't tonight, they don't know what they're in for at OT. They were timid and intimidated by us tonight. An early goal at OT could cripple them.

 

[Revan]

Just to point out that despite taking incredible flack for the opinion that l
la Liga has easier teams, the Celta Vigo equivalent in the premier league is Leicester City.

Ah, I remember that game. We got trashed.

 

[Lay]

*watch a team once*

*make a total judgment based on them from that one game*

Football fans are great.

 

[giorno]

They are clearly fecking abysmal.

Based on the evidence from their games against patetico, leicester is not?

 

[Unlikely lad]

Based on the evidence from their games against patetico, leicester is not?

I don't agree with what he's claiming, but it's a bit grand saying that after Leicester beat Sevilla.

 

[Attila]

They are clearly fecking abysmal.

Did you not say before that you can't make judgements/conclusions on the strength of a league with Euro knockout ties?

Edit-

But as we know up until recently English teams didn't place a large importance in the Europe League, and a two round cup competition has too many variables to be able to say it means anything.

 

[Wumminator]

Did you not say before that you can't make judgements/conclusions on the strength of a league with Euro knockout ties?

Edit-

This is not how arguing works.

You all said you could judge the talent in the leagues through Europe. I still think that is stupid. But based on these metrics that you have set, it's clear that the lower teams in La Liga aren't as good.

Person 1: you can't use Europa to judge talent of teams
Person 2: clearly you can
Person 1: ok then based on that it's clear these teams aren't good
Person 2: hypocrite!!!

 

[Treble]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Celta could create as problems in the second leg. They lost from Shaktar in the first leg too but then beat them in the second leg and progressed. It was a very good perfomance from United but the job isn't finished. The team may be tired after the difficult game with Arsenal.

 

[giorno]

This is not how arguing works.

You all said you could judge the talent in the leagues through Europe. I still think that is stupid. But based on these metrics that you have set, it's clear that the lower teams in La Liga aren't as good.

Person 1: you can't use Europa to judge talent of teams
Person 2: clearly you can
Person 1: ok then based on that it's clear these teams aren't good
Person 2: hypocrite!!!

For one i kinda agree with you: you can't judge the strenght of a league on european competition, it's just too different and doesn't offer enough of a sample size. That said, it's not meaningless either


I mean, does anyone believe Gent to be better than Tottenham? But at the same time, does anybody believe Barcelona/Real Madrid would have gone out against Gent? Roma/Napoli? PSG? Dortmund/Leipzig?

 

[Stacks]

Just to point out that despite taking incredible flack for the opinion that l
la Liga has easier teams, the Celta Vigo equivalent in the premier league is Leicester City.

disagree. Leicester flunked this season due to personal problems but I believe they could compete with Everton atleast. Since the manager change they have won 6 lost 2 drawn 1 in premier league. thats 18/27 pts

 

[Sarni]

They are clearly fecking abysmal.

They are not though. Had a (relatively) bad game last night against a top 5 team from England. Still nowhere near as bad as Leicester were against the same team.

 

[Mogget]

Was disappointed by Celta Vigo, if they beat Barca and Madrid then they must be just as terrible at finishing as we are

Like we didn't tonight, they don't know what they're in for at OT. They were timid and intimidated by us tonight. An early goal at OT could cripple them.

A 1-1 draw?

 

[AXVnee7]

A 1-1 draw?

Lol, our EL results have generally been better at home than in the PL. Even then a 1-1 draw actually takes us to Stockholm so I wouldn't be complaining.

 

[Wumminator]

They are not though. Had a (relatively) bad game last night against a top 5 team from England. Still nowhere near as bad as Leicester were against the same team.

Up front they had Iago Aspas, John Guidetti and their sub was a lad on loan from Fulham.

@Sarni cheers for engaging me in this thread. It always makes me smile.