The english teams also perform worse then the Spanish teams before the continental teams have their winter break, however. In fact, the difference is even bigger (albeit the sample size is lower).
The relative strength of the Premier League
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
The english teams also perform worse then the Spanish teams before the continental teams have their winter break, however. In fact, the difference is even bigger (albeit the sample size is lower).
Only Germany actually have a winter break other leagues basically have one week. Instead of the conventional week between two games, they have two.
On the other hand, you can't extrapolate the opposite, either. So this is pretty much just speculation. And a thankful excuse to continue saying "But we're fine, really... league-wise." Not saying that you aren't, but it's odd that England somehow just can't play tourneys anymore.
That's just bollocks. Of course they're quitting if you pummel them hard enough. There is no mythical British football spirit that let's them keep fight till the end more than other teams.
Nonsense. I have seen Asterix in Britain, one sip of tea and they go again.
You have to really pummel then. Those teams in Italy and Spain are tough at the beginning of the season, but come the second half of the season, they barely even try against the top. In germany they do, but the weakest teams in the league want to play on the front foot even against bayern.
And in case of Germany I doubt that the winter break is great for playing the round of 16. If you look at the last 5 or 6 seasons Bayern always had some problems short after the winter break domestically and in the round of 16. I guess it is about timing form later in the season so there is a slow start - and they need to get into the rhythm again.
And if you e.g. take the schedule of Arsenal...
They had 8 days between 14th and 22nd January (actually they had just one match per week between January 7th and 28th), 7 days between 4th and 11th February and 12 days between February 20th and March 4th. Time to relax...
Last edited:
They played Bayern on the 7th...
And they only got a weekend off at the end of February because Southampton were in the LC final. All the other clubs still played games that weekend.
They played against Bayern at February 15th and March 7th!
The Arsenal schedule from January to the 2nd Bayern match...
FAC 07-01-2017 Preston 1 : 2 Arsenal
EPL 14-01-2017 Swansea 0 : 4 Arsenal
EPL 22-01-2017 Arsenal 2 : 1 Burnley
FAC 28-01-2017 Southampton 0 : 5 Arsenal
EPL 31-01-2017 Arsenal 1 : 2 Watford
EPL 04-02-2017 Chelsea 3 : 1 Arsenal
EPL 11-02-2017 Arsenal 2 : 0 Hull
UCL 15-02-2017 Bayern Munich 5 : 1 Arsenal
FAC 20-02-2017 Sutton United 0 : 2 Arsenal
EPL 04-03-2017 Liverpool 3 : 1 Arsenal
UCL 07-03-2017 Arsenal 1 : 5* Bayern Munich
Oh Bollox, you are right...
Yeah Arsenal had loads of time to rest this time around. City too, didn't they jet somewhere to Dubai or so for a short training camp? In the end, it's just excuses, excuses.
This is patently untrue. Bayern's reason for playing possession football is less a philosophical one like one may believe and more a pragmatical one, because that's what they have to do against 15 out of 18 teams. The ones that do think they can go toe to toe with Bayern despite their lack of quality get educated with high scorelines... like Hamburg or Bremen in the past years.
Then why mention it at all? This "physically demanding" line is just an excuse. The fact of the matter is that for all its money, the PL has fallen behind; the teams it puts on the pitch are inferior; its product is inferior.
It's bound to make a comeback. But an unbiased observer can't fail to spot the disparity in quality.
Oh i agree with that. For all that people like to big up the current middle-of-the-pack premier league sides, the plain truth is they aren't any better now than they were 10 years ago. They're just more expensive
@Lagger fair enough. My point still stands with regards to Italy and Spain
The most "competitive league" where only one team has been running away with the title since December and are now 13 points. Laughable.
Ok punters here’s my penny’s worth.............
If we look at semi-finalists for CL in the last 3 years we are doing better than the French and Italians.
The teams surpassing us are the Germans and the Spanish.
The Spanish are the runaway winners having two teams in the semis in each of these years.
A factor that is hindering the English is we have two domestic cup competitions the Italians, Germans and Spanish only have one domestic cup competition.
Now some will say the big teams squads should be big enough yet they rarely replace all their places for the league cup and the mangers and the coaches still need to prepare them.
So for me the number of matches are the likely factor in why the EPL is not doing so well yet we are only bettered by the Germans and the Spanish.
If we look at semi-finalists for CL in the last 3 years we are doing better than the French and Italians.
The teams surpassing us are the Germans and the Spanish.
The Spanish are the runaway winners having two teams in the semis in each of these years.
A factor that is hindering the English is we have two domestic cup competitions the Italians, Germans and Spanish only have one domestic cup competition.
Now some will say the big teams squads should be big enough yet they rarely replace all their places for the league cup and the mangers and the coaches still need to prepare them.
So for me the number of matches are the likely factor in why the EPL is not doing so well yet we are only bettered by the Germans and the Spanish.
So this was not an issue when English football dominated the latter stages of the competition from 2005 to 2009?
During that period only two teams really contested the premiership, Man Utd and Chelsea.
Since then Liverpool, Arsenal, City and more recently Leicester are now also contesting and matches that were previously considered formalities now need much more preparation. Also all cup competitions are taken seriously as with a top 6 realistically competing for the league the other cups offer some compensation for a winless season.
Since then Liverpool, Arsenal, City and more recently Leicester are now also contesting and matches that were previously considered formalities now need much more preparation. Also all cup competitions are taken seriously as with a top 6 realistically competing for the league the other cups offer some compensation for a winless season.
So now the cups are the excuse du jour? Lol.
Premier League doesn't have any top teams.
They are all in the tier 2 bracket and none of them can compete with Bayern, Real Madrid and Barcelona
Has nothing to do with fatigue the teams just are not good enough to win the competition simple as that
They are all in the tier 2 bracket and none of them can compete with Bayern, Real Madrid and Barcelona
Has nothing to do with fatigue the teams just are not good enough to win the competition simple as that
I think the standard of football generally is currently lower than it was say 5-10 years ago, not just in England but across the board.
When you think of the team England had with Rio and Terry, Scholes/Lampard/Gerrard and Rooney in his prime, yet we were still no where near good enough even at club level due to the Spanish contingent also in their prime. This has completely disappeared and it feels like the level has declined significantly further.
For example Chelsea's team this year who are currently 13 points clear, contains players which would generally be considered average, and in Spain the league is still dominated by the ageing Ronaldo and Messi.
I also think the ever decreasing quality in Italy has contributed to this. For years the league was the pace setter and the teams to beat but with the money which is prevalent in the other leagues and the economical factors impacting on Italy in general, it just can't keep up and has fallen way behind.
These things run in cycles and i'm sure the general quality will increase but at the moment, in my view, its in a general lull.
When you think of the team England had with Rio and Terry, Scholes/Lampard/Gerrard and Rooney in his prime, yet we were still no where near good enough even at club level due to the Spanish contingent also in their prime. This has completely disappeared and it feels like the level has declined significantly further.
For example Chelsea's team this year who are currently 13 points clear, contains players which would generally be considered average, and in Spain the league is still dominated by the ageing Ronaldo and Messi.
I also think the ever decreasing quality in Italy has contributed to this. For years the league was the pace setter and the teams to beat but with the money which is prevalent in the other leagues and the economical factors impacting on Italy in general, it just can't keep up and has fallen way behind.
These things run in cycles and i'm sure the general quality will increase but at the moment, in my view, its in a general lull.
Are you sure? Game quality usually doesn't decrease in sports. Football would be the first sport where quality actually decreases. I think that's highly unlikely. What you're probably trying to say is that tactically, football is changing back and forth. That is true and one of the good things about football. That it can still evolve. But 5-10 years ago fullbacks running up and down the pitch for 90 minutes? Unthinkable. A winger in the olden days that you glorify pretty much set up camp in front of the middle line and you wouldn't see them do the solid defending they do these days. Counter pressure is also a new thing that wasn't really employed as the core element of a strategy until recently, when teams realised you didn't have to wait for the opponent to attack to initiate a counter. You could force the counter!
Nah man, the game is tactically just about 5-10 years ahead of what it was 5-10 years ago. And it shows. Passing has never been this precise. Tackling and intercepting passes has never been this precise. It's no longer the chess *yawn* game of the 90s and early 2000s, it's exciting and way, way more athletic than it used to be.
@Lagger 5-10 years ago? Which year do you think we're in now?
Also, i think he meant the overall talent has decreased. Which it probably did, but mostly i think it's down to this being a transition period between generations(and we've lost a few because they were brainless morons, too)
Also, i think he meant the overall talent has decreased. Which it probably did, but mostly i think it's down to this being a transition period between generations(and we've lost a few because they were brainless morons, too)
The Copa del Rey has two legs at every rounds.
The english season for a top 6 side can have as many as 60 games(1CS+38PL+11LC+10FAC)
The spanish season 49(2SC+38+LL+9CDR)
The italian season 44(1SC+38SA+5IC)
The german season 41(1SC+34BL+6GC)
The spanish season 49(2SC+38+LL+9CDR)
The italian season 44(1SC+38SA+5IC)
The german season 41(1SC+34BL+6GC)
Thanks Giorno for that detail.
Then I would think that is a factor.
Another point is foreign coaches make the point we do not have a winter break, I'm not sure if this a factor yet mention it for consideration.
It's 7 LC games and 8 FAC games. Also Spanish teams are shorter.
Does it affect the surplus of foreign players in the PL when playing internationally?
The only thing I can suggest is that we drop replays in the FA Cup and the PL drops the League cup altogether (making it an unattractive prospect for sponsors that features clubs from the Championship down).
Or stop fecking moaning and get on with it – it's not like they got a surprise when they turned up at work the first day, is it? They chose the PL because it's better paid and a better shop window for their talents and because … it's like it is!
That's borderline heightist!
That's borderline heightist!
In terms of number. They don't have the U21 list, every player over 19 has to be listed in order to play and it's limited to 23 outfield players.Why should other 14 clubs agree to that? English clubs that play in CL can play their youngsters, it's a good enough trophy for other clubs to win.
If you read the rest of my comment I clearly show that it's not something I agree with and that I think they should just shut up and get on with it!
I read but for some reason I thought you sided with first point. Apologies.
I was going to say, they have a smaller squad size. It's just excuses imo.
I love English football … make 'em all play 2 games a week all season (even the teams that fall out of the cups*) that'll harden the feckers up!
*there should be another losers cup competition that if won gives you a get out of jail free card to use in case of relegation!
I'm gonna get shit for this but it's a slow Monday … bring it on!
Your first point I don't recall many foreign players from the EPL having a great world cup last time around. Have I missed any?
To be fair the foreign managers have a moan and then just get on with it.
I think with the cups already we have been cutting out some replays with the penalty options.
Good point on the sponsors for the league cup and probably the extra revenue the Championship gets.
That's not limited to the EPL though, that's true everywhere.
I'll never understand why england needs two Cup competitions anway
But when you look into the playing times of the top players in the World Cup - they did not have less time on the pitch in the leagues than the EPL players.
Was the amount of games played different in 2005-2012? Because if it isn't, then I don't understand this talk about games played being the downfall of the English sides
When the English teams participating in C.L should be downgraded to 3 teams instead of 4 I mean depend on what?