Who are all these managers exactly?
The relative strength of the Premier League
- Thread starter Wumminator
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The effect of suddenly having to work with inferior players? Happened a lot in Polish league where solid managers from abroad would suddenly struggle. Think it's the only plausible explanation here.
Conte hasn't done bad in his first season in the most competitive league of any sports ever though. He did manage bad sides in Italy before Juventus. Coincidence?
Because they are not British managers. Pep is trying to educate the football world, he's just as stubborn as the British are. I've always advocated that England needs to go back to its own roots. If there was a Mr. Football of England, I'd go to him and tell him to stop envying the other leagues and stop buying unsuitable players just because they did well in a shit league against third rate opponents. Go back to finding those English youths that actually take pride in playing for their home town.
Such as Conte? Mourinho? Pochettino?
Also...managers outside england usually don't sign players. It kind of stand to reason that they wouldn't be as good in the transfer market as their previous clubs were
The argument about foreigners really is outstandingly stupid. 12 out of 20 managers are foreigners. 69% of players are foreigners.
So much for foreigners having trouble in the premier league...
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Who are the struggling world class talents?
Who are them?
Mourinho? Comes here, wins the title in each of his first two seasons. Comes back again, wins the title in his second season.
Pellegrini? Wins the title in his first season (his first ever title in Europe).
Ranieri? Wins the title in his first season (his first ever title).
Conte? Comes here and wins the title in his first season.
Pochetino? Better doing that he did in Spain.
Tottenham didn't even go out against the stronger of the two Genkts 
Priceless.
Priceless.
no, the foreign managers aren't doing that badly. Klopp and Mou are making improvements to the team.
However, due to the weakness of the youth system and the sheer amount of money, the English clubs spend a lot of money and make wholesale changes to the squad. Foreign players come in and go. Look at how many guys Conte shipped out. He has already sold Oscar, Ivanovic, Mikel and dropped Terry. Mou dropped Schweinsteiger, Rooney and Shaw and added Pogba, Ibra, Bailly and moved Rashford to the flanks. There are always big, big changes when managers come and go. When the teams finally gel, someone gets sacked again. Man City fires managers every 3 years. I bet Atletico and Monaco will falter once their current managers leave.
This is very unlike Barcelona or Bayern when there is a particular belief and culture inculcated to the youth players and the players continue this culture till retirement.
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Table Updates after round of 16 - Points per Game in this years CL&EL (group and KO games only)
Code:
All Games
G F A P D PpG
ENG 48 79 59 80 20 1,67
ESP 58 107 67 112 40 1,93
FRA 40 67 55 64 12 1,60
GER 46 89 55 82 34 1,78
ITA 46 85 61 76 24 1,65
Total 238 427 297 414 130 1,74
Code:
Games vs Top5 Games vs outside Top5
G F A P D PpG G F A P D PpG
ENG 20 30 34 25 -4 1,25 28 49 25 55 24 1,96
ESP 24 40 33 41 7 1,71 34 67 34 71 33 2,09
FRA 22 26 36 22 -10 1,00 18 41 19 42 22 2,33
GER 22 32 27 32 5 1,45 24 57 28 50 29 2,08
ITA 16 25 23 23 2 1,44 30 60 38 53 22 1,77
Total 104 153 153 143 0 1,38 134 274 144 271 130 2,02To put this into perspective. If we were to have a 38 games league, with the top teams from the top 5 league only and with teams only playing teams from the other FAs, a Spanish team would finish with 17 points more than an english team on average.
Except they wouldn't, because you can't extrapolate out from occasional cup games to the rigours of a league season.
Why not? Which effects would skew this favourably towards the English sides
It would be a league and a very different from anything we know. So we don't know how it would end and can't tell who would adapt the best.
There's a host of factors that differentiate between full leagues and knockout cup competitions, not least depths of squads. The idea that you can just say Barca and Real kick ass in the CL so they'd win a league by on average 19 points is just farcical. They play in a league where the vast majority of teams are crap, try putting them up against decent teams for 38 games a year and see how they hold up.
this is either true of all the top 5 leagues, or plain wrong, depending on your definition of crap
Agree with everything else you said
Correct. And if we assume each team has the same probability to adapt best, the average outcome does not change. Could be 7, 17 or 27 Points.
The Spanish UEFA participants (1.91 PpG) have an easier ride domestically compared to the English sides (1.70 PpG). However, they find the games vs. the top teams from other top FAs only 0.2 PpG more difficult then the Spanish league, while it is 0.45 PpG more difficult for the English teams.
Note. That the difference in domestic PpG for the UEFA participants does not mean that the PD is less competitiv then the PL. If you look at the PpG for the best 7 teams by current league tabe in both leagues PpG reads (2.00 to 1.98).
So if we consider results only, there is nothing that suggests, that Barca and Real play more crap teams then the Engish sides. You could even make an argument, that it is the other way around.
I made no such claim, I wrote "a Spanish team would finish with 17 points more than an english team on average", which means the average points for all Spanish teams would be 17 more then the average points for all English teams. This doesn't even mean a Spanish team would win the league. Although it probably would.
Statistics are interesting aren't they? If we simplify for instance the comparisons to just Chelsea and Barcelona head to head, then with Barca on a ppg of 1.0 and us on 1.55, we'd win a 38 game season against them by a stunning 21 points.
Because statistics are great.
I have to ask: do you actually watch the abroad players that you are judging?
Umtiti has been La Liga's best defender this season, bar none.
Statistics are interesting aren't they? If we simplify for instance the comparisons to just Chelsea and Barcelona head to head, then with Barca on a ppg of 1.0 and us on 1.55, we'd win a 38 game season against them by a stunning 21 points.
Because statistics are great.
Sure. You have take uncertainty into account. Which I tried to minimize by using the maximum number of available samples. You also have to take validity of the samples into account, which I did by using only games of this season.
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the thing that people seem to just refuse to get is that the real differences between the top 4 leagues are at the top(1-6/4 in germany) and bottom(15-20/14/18 in germany). Teams between 7th and 14th are more or less on the same level across the leagues. Very little difference overall. The premier league has the best 15-20 teams in the world(for a number of reason, including especially the fact that english teams never quit, never go into a game thinking they'll lose), La Liga has the best 1-3/4, 5-6 has changed constantly the last 3-4 seasons(this season, the PL has the best 5-6 teams)
The one thing about the premier league, is it is more physically demanding. So in a way, it is harder on the body. Not stronger, not exactly more difficult, but more intense. Big teams have to spend more energy per game on average in england than in the other 4 leagues. But with that said, the difference isn't such as to explain english teams failure in europe. When the top english sides were better than the rest, they dominated the CL. Fulham got to a EL final
The one thing about the premier league, is it is more physically demanding. So in a way, it is harder on the body. Not stronger, not exactly more difficult, but more intense. Big teams have to spend more energy per game on average in england than in the other 4 leagues. But with that said, the difference isn't such as to explain english teams failure in europe. When the top english sides were better than the rest, they dominated the CL. Fulham got to a EL final
well, no. The superhero is, though not because of his defending
but otherwise, yeah, i dunno that he's been the best, but he's been very good
Maybe I'm just being biased but the difference between him and Masche is hugewell, no. The superhero is, though not because of his defending
but otherwise, yeah, i dunno that he's been the best, but he's been very good
Anyway it's time to watch the draw.
Genuine question: are there numbers for this? And if there are, are there numbers showing that the big english teams have to spend more energy?
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So was Otamendi 2 seasons ago i think. Yeah i do certainly, do you? Bailly has a better recovery pace , heading ability, Physical presence,Can play a high line very effectively as well.
Bailly has been top notch in united as well all season.
Well, it's mostly an impression, though it's supported by most players and managers. As for whether they have to, that's a good question. The english football season as a whole is certainly more grinding though, the lack of winter break, 3 games in 5 days between boxing day and new year including 2 games in 3 days, two domestic cups. Also the premier league is played at the second fastest tempo, behind only germany(and i saw actual stats for this, though i can't be arsed to look for them right now)
He's been very good for villarreal as well. Still, he played in Spain, right under barcelona's nose, and they choose Umtiti. Granted, Barcelona's recent track record at signing CBs hasn't been exactly stellar
Still, Umtiti's good. So is Bailly
Because United and Mourinho Chose Bailly and vice versa. We would have never signed Umtiti though. Heading ability is very important in epl, most of the football in spain is played on the ground but not in epl.
I always though Hummels would land in Barcelona But Cruel Bayern signed Title rivals and Germany's Captain. Jeez Dortmund get absolutely bullied by bayern.
Speaking about Bayern How do you find out the Draw?
Umtiti is better in the air than Bailly though
as for the draw, i think we'll beat them. It will be tighter than 2014 because Ancelotti won't care about keeping possession and will actually try and prevent us from playing on the counter/transition. First leg will be cagey, and it will ultimately decide the tie
That was not the case until Managers like Klopp Pep Pochetino LVG Koeman arrived in the EPL As they brought their philosophies with them.
Klopp's actually the main reason the bundesliga plays at the highest tempo now
Leicester will be playing Atletico in Champions League. England champions against a team who is not even close to title in La Liga for the past couple of seasons. Will be interesting... Anything but Leicester win will be huge disappointment for English football.
Even though having no winter break sounds not helpful, I think English teams don't play more games then the Spanish teams over a full saison. The games are just spread out differently. So this is no valid argument in my view.
Those stats would be interesting. The question still remains however: do they run more because the opposition forces them to, or for other reasons (for instance because they lack the skill to dominate in an other way)? I think we would need to cross check tempo in the league games for both FAs and tempo in the UEFA games to resolve this.
I Think that is the worst draw for Leicester city.Both Teams Play Direct counter attacking 442 system and defend deep inside the box via quick offense defense transition. Atletico's defense Will be the hardest for leicester to score against them, While leicester defense can always leak goals against good attackers.
He's never been Germany's captain... he has been a Bayern youth player, however.
I think Pique and Hummels are too similar, so it wouldn't be surprised if Barca were never really interested in him.
To think that I had to craft dozens of calm-headed, carefully formulated and thought-out posts before I got enough likes to become a full member smh
I think I got one for a childish joke about Wales and Fellaini's hair having sheep like qualities... after that the likes for other posts piled up rather quickly.
How the games are spread out matters actually. It has a big impact on recovery, which in turn has a big impact on fitness