Never let this thread die
The relative strength of the Premier League
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
So you think leicester are actually top 4 material who had a horrible league season? Because otherwise this argument has no legs to stand on. Leicester also curb-stomped city and liverpool in the PL
Yes they are.
They aren't. Most of their players have long established themselves in England as mediocre - poor at PL level.
You think a group of poor players can win the League?
In a one off freak season, evidently so.
Didn't you spend ages arguing results did matter? And now we have a relegation threatened team beating a Spanish League contender it means nothing?
England's 15th won the fecking league last year, what does that say?
This is your problem, you pick on little things like English sides winning the last 3 ties over two legs yet completely neglect Sevilla beating Pool in the final last year.
I think you're more than likely a massive WUM but trying to use Europe as a barometer for English teams being better than Spanish teams is one of the most stupid argument I've seen given their corresponding records in Europe this decade and the fact that there are still more Spanish teams in the competitions then English teams.
The performance of Spanish clubs in Europe this season has taken a hit from previous years that is without question. If that is signs of a decline or just an anomaly it is too soon to tell.
That could be well be leveled out by Friday morning if City win and Vigo go out of the Euro Cup, both of which are real possibilities. Although Spain would have one more in the premier competition.
That could be well be leveled out by Friday morning if City win and Vigo go out of the Euro Cup, both of which are real possibilities. Although Spain would have one more in the premier competition.
Thanks to the ref. Now that must be one real indicator of league strength then
Points per Game in this years CL&EL (group and KO games only)
Games For Against Points DiffGoals PpG
ENG 46 77 56 77 21 1,67
ESP 56 105 67 108 38 1,93
FRA 38 63 52 61 11 1,61
GER 47 91 57 83 34 1,77
ITA 45 83 60 73 23 1,62
Points per Game in this years CL&EL (group and KO games vs. teams from the Top5 leagues only)
Games For Against Points DiffGoals PpG
ENG 19 29 31 25 -2 1,32
ESP 23 40 33 40 7 1,74
FRA 20 22 33 19 -11 0,95
GER 23 34 29 33 5 1,43
ITA 15 23 22 20 1 1,33
Spain still dominating. All other leagues performance comparable. French teeams suck vs. teams from stronger leagues
Games For Against Points DiffGoals PpG
ENG 46 77 56 77 21 1,67
ESP 56 105 67 108 38 1,93
FRA 38 63 52 61 11 1,61
GER 47 91 57 83 34 1,77
ITA 45 83 60 73 23 1,62
Points per Game in this years CL&EL (group and KO games vs. teams from the Top5 leagues only)
Games For Against Points DiffGoals PpG
ENG 19 29 31 25 -2 1,32
ESP 23 40 33 40 7 1,74
FRA 20 22 33 19 -11 0,95
GER 23 34 29 33 5 1,43
ITA 15 23 22 20 1 1,33
Spain still dominating. All other leagues performance comparable. French teeams suck vs. teams from stronger leagues
No I didn't. Were Seville any good?
Nice research. Stats don't often get more conclusive than that.
What about Barca beating City 4-0? Or Bayern destroying England's third best team 10-2? Or Tottenham first being knocked out by an average German team then by an average Belgian team? Or West Ham being knocked out by a heavily struggling Romanian team two years in a row?
Oh I forgot, that does not count. It only counts when it's an English team winning.
The purpose of this thread is to feed his delusions whenever there's an opportunity. You're destroying the point of it all with facts and common sense. That's no fun.
No idea what those facts are saying. That teams can lose against lesser oppositions? That teams get sometimes battered by slightly better (or even sometimes worse) teams? Happens to teams from every league both at international or at cup level.
Should have won like 6-0
No they don't, because you have to take quality of opposition into account, group position after 4 games, etc.
Look, the CL is a good indicator of the strenght of a league's best sides from the quarter finals level. Everything else should never be considered in relation to the relative strenght of a league
Also because these are knockout cup competitions ultimately and to dominate you need representatives in the later stages. Spain will be the dominant nation in the CL quarters but in the EL there is a good chance there will be no Spanish clubs, which is a stark contrast to recent seasons.
Knockout rounds are a special beast. Form trumps everything and luck plays a huge part. I mean, it's one thing to play a full steength real madrid in fall 2014 form. It's quite another to play a madrid side with modric, cristiano, bale, marcelo and sergio ramos injured and benzema, kroos, james and isco going through a bad patch of form
That said, there are aberrations, such as spanish sides winning 45 out of 46 knockout ties against non-spanish sides
That said, there are aberrations, such as spanish sides winning 45 out of 46 knockout ties against non-spanish sides
Or English teams winning 100 games out of 100 against non English teams...
It's bollocks, this season alone Spanish teams won 8 of 13 matches agaist non Spanish sides on international level knockout stagesWhat the hell!
That can't be right, Madrid lost against Dortmund and Juventus. Or is it including Europa league also?
Yes. When did this happen btw? '70/80s?Or English teams winning 100 games out of 100 against non English teams...
IIRC, between 2013/14 and 2015/16 spanish sides went through 45 times out of 48 against non-spanish sides in two-legged knockout ties. At one point it was 45 out of 46
please stop the fake news. This isn't even true for 2013/14 alone..
i think the premier league has a huge disantvantage in the latter stages in terms of fitness/freshness. while the intensity of spanish football is generally lower (technically focused with less physicality) and germany has the winter break to regain strength. english teams played already in two domestic cups and a physically demanding league with 20 teams. It is good to have that many games to generate tv money, but keeping the form or tactical fine tuning of a team is harder due to bigger squads and more rotation/injuries etc.
So taking 50 games between the (5 to 7) top teams from the best 5 leagues is no good indicator for the leagues strengths because they don't take the quality of the opposition into account. I assume you mean the sample size is to small giving to much room to luck of the draw etc? I'am with you there. More games would be better of course. But how is taking 15 games (from the CL QF onwards) between a total of 8 teams ad taking plece within only two month of the saison a better indicator? I mean fecking Leicester are in the QF. If they would get spanked in the next round by the likes of Barca, Real or Bayern, would this mean the PL is shit? I tentwo think not.
Looking at single results is way to uncertain as an estimator. You may try to reduce the uncertainty by reducing the luck of the draw (taking only QF in CL should mean only top teams playing each other) but at the same time you increase the luck component for the games (injuries, referee, form, etc.). The second table above takes the strength of the opposition into account btw. (only teams from the top 5 leagues). Furthermor the picture doesn't change much if we look at all games or only games beetween the top7, top5 or top3 leagues.
On the other side, Copa Del Rey is longer than FA Cup (3 more matches), so that kind of averages out.
I am pretty sure that Spanish teams run as much as English teams, and both leagues have 20 teams?
How does the lack of winter break explain the fact that La Liga teams typically dominate EPL teams even in group stage (look at Barca vs City, or Real vs Liverpool and so on)? In addition, the winter break in Spain is actually a weekend (not winter) break. A week later, English clubs enter the FA Cup and for most teams it is an easy draw where they can rotate the team so for the main players it would be in essence as a much break as the 'winter break' in Spain.
Germany has an advantage, no doubt about it. 4 less matches in the league in addition to a genuine winter break. But Spain doesn't.
Just checked 13/14 season, and there are a lot more then 3 times that Spanish teams did not win in the knockout stages...yellow press
Whatever it is, pretty much every single media reported it before liverpool played villarrealJust checked 13/14 season, and there are a lot more then 3 times that Spanish teams did not win in the knockout stages...yellow press
Same tables as above before christmas
vs all:
G F A P D PpG
ENG 36 60 37 63 23 1,75
ESP 42 79 45 81 34 1,93
FRA 30 40 33 49 7 1,63
GER 36 65 44 65 21 1,81
ITA 36 69 45 61 24 1,69
vs Top5
G F A P D PpG
ENG 12 15 16 13 -1 1,08
ESP 14 21 17 22 4 1,57
FRA 14 10 16 13 -6 0,93
GER 16 16 18 22 -2 1,38
ITA 8 12 7 14 5 1,75
just checked 14/15, also more then 3 games they did not win. I'd check facts before blindly falling for fake news. Big problem of todays times....
Just checked 13/14 season, and there are a lot more then 3 times that Spanish teams did not win in the knockout stages...yellow press
2016-17
Sevilla Knocked out by Leicester City
Bilbao Knocked out by APOEL
Villarreal Knocked out by Roma
2015-16
Villarreal Knocked out by Liverpool
2014-15
Madrid Knocked out by Juventus
2012-13
Barca Knocked out by Bayern
Madrid Knocked out by Dortmund
Malaga Knocked out by Dortmund
Valencia Knocked out by PSG
Atletico Madrid Knocked out by Rubin Kazan
Levante Knocked out by Rubin Kazan
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I assume they mean that Spanish teams won the overall tie because in 2013/2014, Spanish teams won both competitions and they were only ever knocked out by other Spanish teams.
Seville still had the best chances until they were just one goal down, then Leicester created 2/3 big chances on counter.
Again, I don't think the statistic referred to individual ties. It was talking about Spanish teams winning the knockout ties and the rarity of non Spanish teams knocking them out in the knockout stages. The fact that Valencia lost 3-0 away to Basel is neither here nor there in knockout football when they ended up going through anyway.