The relative strength of the Premier League

Sarni said:
It'll probably cheer people up to know that it costs me £8 a month here to watch nearly all Premier League, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, Ligue 1, Champions League and Europa League games plus all international tournaments, completely legal, in HD quality.
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We wouldn't be able to get it in the UK at such a low price, but would be expected to pay full whack. People over here are in revolt against pay per view, which has increased significantly over the last few years, as they are fed up being fleeced by these greedy organisations. It is not called rip off Britain for nothing. It costs a lot to get Sky, & most people are very reluctant to then be expected to buy viewing from BT as well.

I think the reason that audiences have fallen is due to the English sides getting knocked out early, but mainly due to the Champions League going from free viewing to full paid per view. It is though they are deliberately trying to ensure the UK public doesn't watch it. Once an audience goes it is hard to get back, but unfortunately it is sometimes hard to underestimate the harm greed & stupidity can do.
 
Sarni said:
Yep they are truly abysmal. There should not be football outside of England. In fact I'd kill all footballers outside Premier League, their existence is pointless.
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Calm down.
 
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I don't find elite football as interesting to watch any more, especially in England. You hear about people saying English football’s the best football there is around. I think Spain’s by far the best league. Germany has better teams. In Italy probably the strength in depth isn’t great. They talk about Italy being a bad league but I don’t think English people look at it. They say it’s boring. No chance. The Juventus team would beat any team in this league. They came up to Manchester City and beat them easy. But we have this interpretation of the Italian league that it’s rubbish. They only try to defend. No chance.

Adrian Doherty: the lost star of Manchester United’s class of 92 | Daniel Taylor

The Spanish league’s the best by far if you’re judging on the European competitions. In the quarter-finals of the Champions League and the Europa League in 2015–16, they had six of the 16 teams. Nearly half of them. The Premier League had just two.

There needs to be a real step up in quality in England. Other than Sergio Agüero, Kevin De Bruyne and David Silva, we don’t have the best players. All the best players are in other countries

The best players are in Spain or at Bayern Munichand Juventus. We’re linked with big players – Gareth Bale is a top player – but we don’t get them now. Not any more. You never see a Lionel Messi coming over here, you never see a Neymar in the Premier League.

There’s some good players, really good players, but it’s not always the best for quality. In the Premier League in the last two years, have I really seen a game of high quality? A game that I’ve thought: “Wow!” It’s difficult to think of any.

Then I think of games abroad that I’ve watched: Real Madrid–Barcelona, Bayern Munich–Borussia Dortmund, proper games of football. I can’t imagine Real Madrid players, Barcelona players, watching our games and being as excited as we are to watch a Real Madrid–Barcelona game or a Bayern–Dortmund game or Juventus–Roma, something like that. Now 10 years ago, in those days, other than Real Madrid … I don’t think Bayern Munich were particularly special. Juventus were good, don’t get me wrong, but I think English teams were probably on a par with them.
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Paul Scholes in class of 92 book
 
Scholes doesn't understand that P.L is too strong and the clubs can't afford to compete in Europe.He talks about the Classico but obviates the 90% of tedious games
 
Attila said:
Paul Scholes in class of 92 book
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La Liga is far and a way the best league all things considered. And from a match by match basis La Liga and Bundesliga are head and shoulders above Premier League as things stand.

I think it will change personally but still a long while to go. I do think the Premier League is more exciting than the Bundesliga from an overal perspective (4 different league winners in the last 4 years is pretty damn good for a league that is all about money) but even in that regard La Liga is ahead as Simeone's Athletico will challenge consistently.
 
Scholes is just being anachronistic. He doesn't like the fact that the game has changed since he and his group of friends have retired.

We have Pep, Mourinho, Klopp and Conte in the same league and somehow it's not the best one. The reason he gives is also very unconvincing. He thinks Owner's in the PL are motivated by revenues and don't care about the football on the pitch.
 
Since we're bumping this every single time there's a significant win in one of the other big leagues I think it's worth pointing out that Barcelona just lost at home to an abysmal, dreadful, terrible promoted team and Dortmund also just lost to a promoted team in Bundesliga too.

Bump.
 
Well. In Dortmund's case that loss makes me fear for their competitiveness in Europe this season much more than assume that RB Leipzig will bring new competitiveness to the Bundesliga. Or more precisely, no new competitiveness at the top of the league. From midfield down to the relegation spots, the Bundesliga is a battlefield of ~15 teams where anyone can beat anyone and anyone can find themselves relegated. Yet on the international stage, there's only 3-4 teams each year who play a role beyond qualification and group stages of the tournaments, with only Bayern and Dortmund being expected to reach the semi-finals or actually win the trophies.
 
GhastlyHun said:
Well. In Dortmund's case that loss makes me fear for their competitiveness in Europe this season much more than assume that RB Leipzig will bring new competitiveness to the Bundesliga. Or more precisely, no new competitiveness at the top of the league. From midfield down to the relegation spots, the Bundesliga is a battlefield of ~15 teams where anyone can beat anyone and anyone can find themselves relegated. Yet on the international stage, there's only 3-4 teams each year who play a role beyond qualification and group stages of the tournaments, with only Bayern and Dortmund being expected to reach the semi-finals or actually win the trophies.
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sounds like England except we have no teams expecting to win
 
i was watching the United-City summary on "fullmatches and shows". The footage are snippets from the Sky Sports live coverage.
One of the commentators (who were they?) couldn't stop having fun how Bravo's blunder was due to the fact that this had been a "premier league type" cross, which he obviously thought was something Bravo had never encountered in his entire life.
Repeated it like 2-3 times.

So, please enlighten me, oh mighty Caf. I am well aware that the art of crossing was well practiced at United under Moyes, but still: What do the Premier League players know about crossing, that a Keeper with 300 league matches and a couple of titles doesn't know? :wenger:
 
strongwalker said:
i was watching the United-City summary on "fullmatches and shows". The footage are snippets from the Sky Sports live coverage.
One of the commentators (who were they?) couldn't stop having fun how Bravo's blunder was due to the fact that this had been a "premier league type" cross, which he obviously thought was something Bravo had never encountered in his entire life.
Repeated it like 2-3 times.

So, please enlighten me, oh mighty Caf. I am well aware that the art of crossing was well practiced at United under Moyes, but still: What do the Premier League players know about crossing, that a Keeper with 300 league matches and a couple of titles doesn't know? :wenger:
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That was Gary Neville in one of his more embarrassing moments, triumphantly exclaiming "A REAL PREMIER LEAGUE CROSS WITH REAL PREMIER LEAGUE PRESSURE". Of course, the 'pressure' came from teammate Stones into whom Bravo decided to stumble.

No need to make a big deal out of it. Neville obviously is also emotionally invested in Hart as he was his coach with England.


However, maybe people can take this instance to remind themselves what kind of casual supremacist talk people who also watch and follow other leagues have to endure constantly, when watching English speaking PL coverage.
This type of stuff, casually implying crosses in other leagues are easier to catch, happens every time one watches a PL game. And from people as smart and clam-headed as Neville too.
For example, it's a usual occurrence to have some English commenter, Owen or Savage or what have you, saying stuff like "This is sooo important n the Premier League, to take your chances and score from the opportunities you have".
As opposed to other leagues, where scoring goals is not important.
etc etc


Maybe this serves as a context why fans of other leagues sometimes lose it or go overboard when faced with such silly clishés.

It was a great game though.
 
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strongwalker said:
i was watching the United-City summary on "fullmatches and shows". The footage are snippets from the Sky Sports live coverage.
One of the commentators (who were they?) couldn't stop having fun how Bravo's blunder was due to the fact that this had been a "premier league type" cross, which he obviously thought was something Bravo had never encountered in his entire life.
Repeated it like 2-3 times.

So, please enlighten me, oh mighty Caf. I am well aware that the art of crossing was well practiced at United under Moyes, but still: What do the Premier League players know about crossing, that a Keeper with 300 league matches and a couple of titles doesn't know? :wenger:
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I was watching that match with a stream and I thought the same.

And then I saw this...



It was not only Dortmund that lost to newly promoted Leipzig - newly promoted Freiburg won against last years ranked 3 Gladbach, too.
 
Can´t blame Hart for that one. Look at that cowardly Italian defender that just falls to the ground, leaving the attacker unmarked.

With some proper "premier league style defenders", that would´ve never been a goal. Like Mangala. Or Richard Dunne.

Remember that he is also used to catching proper crosses, not this joke of a corner.
 
Cristiano Lell said:
That was Gary Neville in one of his more embarrassing moments, triumphantly exclaiming "A REAL PREMIER LEAGUE CROSS WITH REAL PREMIER LEAGUE PRESSURE". Of course, the 'pressure' came from teammate Stones into whom Bravo decided to stumble.

No need to make a big deal out of it. Neville obviously is also emotionally invested in Hart as he was his coach with England.


However, maybe people can take this instance to remind themselves what kind of casual supremacist talk people who also watch and follow other leagues have to endure constantly, when watching English speaking PL coverage.
This type of stuff, casually implying crosses in other leagues are easier to catch, happens every time one watches a PL game. And from people as smart and clam-headed as Neville too.
For example, it's a usual occurrence to have some English commenter, Owen or Savage or what have you, saying stuff like "This is sooo important n the Premier League, to take your chances and score from the opportunities you have".
As opposed to other leagues, where scoring goals is not important.
etc etc


Maybe this serves as a context why fans of other leagues sometimes lose it or go overboard when faced with such silly clishés.

It was a great game though.
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The constant hyping up of the PL by its journos and pundits is sooooo tiresome. As if the football played in England is of a completely nature to the rest of the world. Mistakes happen and English keepers have been famous for being incredibly shit for years.
 
kouroux said:
The constant hyping up of the PL by its journos and pundits is sooooo tiresome. As if the football played in England is of a completely nature to the rest of the world. Mistakes happen and English keepers have been famous for being incredibly shit for years.
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I don't even mind it per se.
I mean, Sky and BT pay incredible amounts of money for the rights to cover the PL, of course that will involve keeping a hype machine running. Also, they are allowed to be enthusiastic about their league, why not. I am fan of the Premier League too, and I love watching it. It's a great league.

It only gets annoying when these hype proclamations keep showing up as supposedly factual arguments, unquestioned, regurgitated, devoid of substance, in discussions like this one.
 
Blackwidow said:
I was watching that match with a stream and I thought the same.

And then I saw this...



It was not only Dortmund that lost to newly promoted Leipzig - newly promoted Freiburg won against last years ranked 3 Gladbach, too.
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It was "A REAL SERIE A CROSS WITH REAL SERIE A PRESSURE".
 
Stacks said:
sounds like England except we have no teams expecting to win
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With the likes of Pep and Mou in the PL, this should change. Teams not necessarily winning stuff right away, but making a strong impression in the tournaments.
 
Cristiano Lell said:
I don't even mind it per se.
I mean, Sky and BT pay incredible amounts of money for the rights to cover the PL, of course that will involve keeping a hype machine running. Also, they are allowed to be enthusiastic about their league, why not. I am fan of the Premier League too, and I love watching it. It's a great league.

It only gets annoying when these hype proclamations keep showing up as supposedly factual arguments, unquestioned, regurgitated, devoid of substance, in discussions like this one.
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This is why I like Canal + for instance and how they present the Ligue 1 because even if they often pay the rights for broadcasting most matches, they still take the piss regarding the football played, the howlers, the mistakes. They even dedicated an entire show for it (tbh a big segment of that show) presented by Julien Cazarre.
It's ok to wanna big up your product, specially when it cost so much but sometimes the lines between praise and stupidity is very thin.
 
kouroux said:
This is why I like Canal + for instance and how they present the Ligue 1 because even if they often pay the rights for broadcasting most matches, they still take the piss regarding the football played, the howlers, the mistakes. They even dedicated an entire show for it (tbh a big segment of that show) presented by Julien Cazarre.
It's ok to wanna big up your product, specially when it cost so much but sometimes the lines between praise and stupidity is very thin.
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For me, that's part and parcel of watching PL and I kind of like it.
And to be frank, in my opinion German commentators are the worst of the worst, to the point where sometimes I choose watch English streams of BuLi matches.
 
2ndTouch said:
They have Giroud to even the odds
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Giroud is really underrated. He isn't good enough to lead the team to the league title like Van Persie did but he is very good striker. His mins per goal was excellent last season and his overall game is underrated as well.

Sometimes he forgets his scoring boots though, fluffs few chances.
 
We're kind of turning the corner...I think. There's still a long way to go though.

I mean the Manchester Derby at the weekend. In some aspects it was really good. The tempo and the intensity, some of the skill and play on show, was really high quality...but then when you look at how the goals were scored, and chances created for both teams, a lot of it is just dire. It is literally like watching a football comedy reel.

PL games even at the top end of the table seem to more often than not be decided by which team's clowns put on the best circus act, instead of by moments of brilliance or high quality all round performances. The problem is when they come up against a really good, or sometimes even decent European side, and there are no clowns on the other team. It's very difficult to beat a good team, even if most of your players are better than theirs, if you have a weak link they can just pick at. They'll invariably be good enough to do it.
 
noodlehair said:
We're kind of turning the corner...I think.
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I think so, but we will know this for sure, only after a year or so, when we can see how well EPL teams did in Europe.
JPRouve said:
But unfortunately it wasn't a real Serie A goalkeeper.;)
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It was hilarious to see very English Gary giving that treatment to Bravo (who by the way, was very shit) and mentioning Brave LionHart, only for him to make the same mistake which cost his team points.
 
Cristiano Lell said:
For me, that's part and parcel of watching PL and I kind of like it.
And to be frank, in my opinion German commentators are the worst of the worst, to the point where sometimes I choose watch English streams of BuLi matches.
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I completely agree. I'd gladly take 1000 biased Nevilles if it meant getting rid of one Müller-Hohenstein, Breyer or Delling. I've begun to like Kahn, but Welke is a joker, and don't get me started on Scholl. (The worst of the worst is Steffen Simon though, he should just be left behind on some autobahn gas station never to be seen again).

Some of Sky's commentators are ok, but most aren't. I've begun watching my hometown team (2nd division) with "Stadion Sound" option because it can be genuinely annoying to listen to some of them.

Btt: I'm looking forward to City-Gladbach tonight, hope Gladbach can regain their confidence from last season and Stindl scores a couple. (That's what i'm hoping, i'm expecting a clear city victory)

Edit: By Sky commentators I mean Sky-Germany commentators in this post.
 
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roonster09 said:
Giroud is really underrated. He isn't good enough to lead the team to the league title like Van Persie did but he is very good striker. His mins per goal was excellent last season and his overall game is underrated as well.

Sometimes he forgets his scoring boots though, fluffs few chances.
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I swear the same works too if you replace "Giroud" with "Cavani" and "Van Persie" with "Zlatan".
 
England has more UEFA coefficient points than Spain, Germany and Italy after the first round of CL games.

Trust Spurs to let the country down, though.
 
Dante said:
England has more UEFA coefficient points than Spain, Germany and Italy after the first round of CL games.

Trust Spurs to let the country down, though.
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But less than Denmark, Croatia, Israel, France, Austria, Scotland (lol) and Bulgaria... kinda takes the gloss off of that statement, eh?
 
Skorenzy said:
But less than Denmark, Croatia, Israel, France, Austria, Scotland (lol) and Bulgaria... kinda takes the gloss off of that statement, eh?
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Not like-for-like comparisons since those countries scored a lot of points in qualifiers. They're also not in direct competition with the PL for European places next season. That's the battle that matters. And it's first blood to the Premier League.
 
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