Real is Barcelonas bitch almost 10 years now though. So it's kinda a 1 team league.
The relative strength of the Premier League
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Real is Barcelonas bitch almost 10 years now though. So it's kinda a 1 team league.
Not really. Barca have been dominant but Real have still managed a couple of titles and CL's. It's not a one-team league.
Not 10 years. The ten year figure goes: Barca 6, Real Madrid 3, Atletico 1. They have won 6 out of the last 8. I'm not sure if that's fundamentally different to United winning 5 out of the last 7, in SAF's final seasons - the whole PL was United's bitch for a long time. Of course, back in those days we used to argue that the PL was a strong league based on the evidence of how many Champions League QF/SF teams it kept supplying.
PL has way more strength in depth. It's not even close.
The top 3 teams in Europe are currently a tier she'd if our best teams. But that will change in the next 2 years max.
The top 3 teams in Europe are currently a tier she'd if our best teams. But that will change in the next 2 years max.
I don't think two years is enough. The past two years the gap has only got bigger and with the quality they have it will take longer to catch up. In two years mid-table PL teams might catch up with mid-table La Liga teams.
And it was a pretty decent argument too, there was nothing special in Serie A, Bayern were in a weird Klinsmann phase, Real had 2 Diarras in midfield, and pre-Pep Barca were 3rd in a two-horse race.
Of course the reverse argument is equally valid now, since about 2009 there's been a sharp reversal of PL clubs success in CL. And it can be seen in the teams too. Chelsea, United and Liverpool have had teams that are nowhere close to their 2005-2008 teams, while Barca have gone supernova, Bayern followed, and Real bought everyone and every manager and finally they bought the best midfield in the world, Atleti became awesome, Dortmund, Juve and PSG are contenders now)
Is it? Right now I only see 2 real competitors for PL title, both teams from Manchester. That's one less than in Spain. Maybe another best Spurs season ever could shake things up
Money alone won't do it. Last season a team won your league with a fraction of the budget of your big guys. Let's not forget that a lot of that money is subject to domestic inflation anyway. As long as Donkeys like Benteke are being shoved back and forth for absurd amounts of money, and homegrown players are 5 times as expensive as comparable lads from the continent, it's not as big as you make it.
Also, you can only bait players by overpaying massively for so long. PL clubs will face massive problems in making room in their squads, because PL players can't be sold anywhere else other than another PL club, due to the massive wages even the most average players are on.
And of course tactics and a coherent football philosophy do also play a big part. It's not enough to just buy foreign managers on the elite level. Spain and Germany are miles ahead in youth education.
As for getting shit together, we could see with West Ham. Yes, I also expect the PL to step up, but it's a longer way to domination then many of the "We have so much money, we are NBA"-folks like to think.
Nah it's going to take more then 2 years to close the gap on barca/Madrid/Bayern. United and City can reach Bayern level probably personnel wise, but Barca has been on a different level personnel wise for 10 years now. Even in their years where they struggled, they still had incredible players all around, just things didn't work for whatever reason. When you have a front 3 of Messi, Neymar and Suarez, the only way to beat them is with greater tactics, because you can't make a better front 3 then that if you hand picked players. Ronaldo the only one who would get into it, and even then, you can argue that Neymar probably suits the others and Barca better anyway. Basically, Barca is at a level player wise that isn't reachable by any team. We have to wait for Messi to retire for them to be surpassed.
As of now, Barca, Bayern, Madrid, Atletico, Juventus and Dortmund are probably the best 6 teams in the world. Saying that, United, City and Chelsea can reach/pass all but the big 3, while the big 3 will take a bit longer to surpass.
Disagree about Dortmund. They look really shaky when under pressure (more than those other 5) and are probably equal to the top PL clubs at this moment, not better.
3 games in I don't think you can say it's only a two horse race given Chelsea have Conte and have won their first three games too.
I don't disagree with the second paragraph.
Arsenal and Tottenham have got a chance this season. People write Arsenal off every year but I think this is the best squad they've had in a while.
Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool have no chance this season.
Just like every year Arsenal will come nowhere near winning the league.
Just like every year Arsenal will come nowhere near winning the league.
They finished second last year....
And what is your point? They were a massive 10 points behind Leicester freaking City and that included gaining 6 points against them in the two games last year. So there was a 16 point swing in the other 36 games. Arsenal have no chance!
The quality in the Spurs Liverpool game was atrocious. Considering they are both top 8 teams it's not a good sign.
Big points total needed to win it this year.
Big points total needed to win it this year.
In an astonishing outburst, Jurgen Klopp has claimed that the standards in LaLiga are so poor that Barcelona could use their B team half the time.
The Liverpool coach was also surprised at the lack of motivation from the Blaugrana in their recent Wembley friendly.
According to an interview given to the Daily Mail, the German compared playing in the Spanish top flight was akin to a training session.
"The main difference with Spain is that Barcelona can play 50% of their matches with the B team.
"Messi runs 4.3 kilometres and they score five goals - it's like a recovery session.
"That doesn't happen in any match in England.
"We played against them at Wembley and in the tunnel their players were yawning, stretching and looking around.
"We won, but they could have scored five."
http://www.marca.com/en/football/international-football/2016/09/03/57caa850e2704ed62f8b45cf.html
The Liverpool coach was also surprised at the lack of motivation from the Blaugrana in their recent Wembley friendly.
According to an interview given to the Daily Mail, the German compared playing in the Spanish top flight was akin to a training session.
"The main difference with Spain is that Barcelona can play 50% of their matches with the B team.
"Messi runs 4.3 kilometres and they score five goals - it's like a recovery session.
"That doesn't happen in any match in England.
"We played against them at Wembley and in the tunnel their players were yawning, stretching and looking around.
"We won, but they could have scored five."
http://www.marca.com/en/football/international-football/2016/09/03/57caa850e2704ed62f8b45cf.html
All the other main European leagues as boring as feck compared to the PL.
Yep they are truly abysmal. There should not be football outside of England. In fact I'd kill all footballers outside Premier League, their existence is pointless.
It's funny because the Barcelona B team got relegated after finishing rock bottom of the Segunda division and are now playing in the Segunda B division. So if they can't survive in the Segunda division now are there really idiots that think this is even possible? Are there really idiots like that? Sadly i think there are.
I think he means their reserve players like Alcacer, Turan, Gomes etc
Then the first sentence is terrible because Barcelona have top players outside of the first eleven, so obviously they can play them and win. These players will also win in Germany, England or even in CL. It doesn't say anything about La Liga standards.
What does that even mean, that Liverpool is even worse than those teams?
Kloppo's losing it. Too much pressure.
Those comments seem strange, why would he say something like that now? Anyway, someone in his position shouldn't say populistic BS like that.
He has been doing very populist things since he became Liverpool's manager. He made his first press conference on a Beatles T-shirt, for feck sake.
Fair play for saying what everyone is thinking.
.. whose bread I eat, whose song I sing .. or something like that
He has always been a populist, at least since his Dortmund days. No actual phoney, I'm sure he mostly believes in what he says, but he takes care to maintain his image as a man of the people.
Yeah, that Tottenham - Liverpool was a masterpiece of a match. The tactical level displayed was that of a third division match.
That is why I always said he is the ideal "underdog" coach. Not of real underdogs - but of the ones that sit behind the top dogs. I know that some here dreamed of him as next United coach (and at bluemoon they did the same) - but he matches totally to Liverpool.
He delivers the full package - not only his tactics are build on it but it is how he gets his team to play as a whole and how he can motivate them. That is why it is more important for Liverpool to have a homogenous team (and he mainly bought players with a high workrate and fighters) team than to have any stars.
Being at Dortmund he managed that he was seldom critizised by the media. He properly feeds them - and in Germany you say that you never bite in a hand that feeds you...
.......is increasing all the time which you'd expect with the money it generates and the movement of the top players and managers to the PL. Still, not reflected European competition but obviously there are other factors involved there.
Before the Europa league final where Liverpool where embarrassed 3-0:
Klopp on La lIga:
Jurgen Klopp has hailed La Liga as the best domestic competition in world football ahead of Liverpool's Europa League final against two-time defending champions Sevilla in Basle.
Spanish sides have dominated European competition in recent years, with Sevilla's success mirrored by Real Madrid and Barcelona winning the Champions League in 2014 and 2015 respectively. This year's final will be contested by Real Madrid and Atletico Madrid.
Klopp told a news conference: "It's the best football country I would say, a combination of good managers, scouting, good education of players.
"Lots of young players from South America like to go to Spain because they can settle in. There are a lot of reasons, but at this moment La Liga is the highest level and it is the job of everybody else to reach this level and pass them.
"Germany were the last world champions, then Spain [before them], so things can change!
"Spain's status is deserved, but hopefully on Wednesday nobody will see it."
The goal post for the premier league keeps changing. This best league in the world rhetoric was never used till EPL teams started going deep into the champions league between 05-2011 ish. Then when English teams failed consistently, the best league started changing to the most 'exciting'. The only reason the EPL is exciting is because it is end to end, players run without sense and there is no structure in building attacking moves relative to La Liga and the bundesliga. Bundesliga and La liga teams press more than the EPL teams so the myth that the EPL is the most difficult in terms of physicality is baffling. The reason why it is more 'physical' is because more emphaisis is placed on individuals rather than collective execution. Las Palmas have better build up and pass better than every single EPL team bar Manchester City at the moment. The myth that Arsenal play like Barcelona is just that. Arsenals Positon game is pathetic compared to la liga teams. The spacing issue alays happens to them. This is just basics that are taught in youth teams in Spain. The pressing in ENgland is awful and unstructured and is easy to bypass because again, there is no emphasis on collectivism and everything is about individuals.
Barcelona, Real Madrid and Atletico are the best teams in Europe. The average game in the EPl is unwatchable. These teams can't pass properly and build up properly and it just because a sit back and counter exercise. I will cite Las Palmas once again, they play better football and pass better than any team in the EPL. Sunderland? Hull City? Middlesborough? These teams are all terrible.
West Ham showed their quality once again in Europe against a team that was going through so much scandal. The fact that the the #6 roel that had been in Europe since the 70s was called the makelel position in England simply because everyone played 442 and now Makelele is deified as some myythical defensive MF examplifies how far behind England are behind the continent.
Klopp on La lIga:
Jurgen Klopp has hailed La Liga as the best domestic competition in world football ahead of Liverpool's Europa League final against two-time defending champions Sevilla in Basle.
Spanish sides have dominated European competition in recent years, with Sevilla's success mirrored by Real Madrid and Barcelona winning the Champions League in 2014 and 2015 respectively. This year's final will be contested by Real Madrid and Atletico Madrid.
Klopp told a news conference: "It's the best football country I would say, a combination of good managers, scouting, good education of players.
"Lots of young players from South America like to go to Spain because they can settle in. There are a lot of reasons, but at this moment La Liga is the highest level and it is the job of everybody else to reach this level and pass them.
"Germany were the last world champions, then Spain [before them], so things can change!
"Spain's status is deserved, but hopefully on Wednesday nobody will see it."
The goal post for the premier league keeps changing. This best league in the world rhetoric was never used till EPL teams started going deep into the champions league between 05-2011 ish. Then when English teams failed consistently, the best league started changing to the most 'exciting'. The only reason the EPL is exciting is because it is end to end, players run without sense and there is no structure in building attacking moves relative to La Liga and the bundesliga. Bundesliga and La liga teams press more than the EPL teams so the myth that the EPL is the most difficult in terms of physicality is baffling. The reason why it is more 'physical' is because more emphaisis is placed on individuals rather than collective execution. Las Palmas have better build up and pass better than every single EPL team bar Manchester City at the moment. The myth that Arsenal play like Barcelona is just that. Arsenals Positon game is pathetic compared to la liga teams. The spacing issue alays happens to them. This is just basics that are taught in youth teams in Spain. The pressing in ENgland is awful and unstructured and is easy to bypass because again, there is no emphasis on collectivism and everything is about individuals.
Barcelona, Real Madrid and Atletico are the best teams in Europe. The average game in the EPl is unwatchable. These teams can't pass properly and build up properly and it just because a sit back and counter exercise. I will cite Las Palmas once again, they play better football and pass better than any team in the EPL. Sunderland? Hull City? Middlesborough? These teams are all terrible.
West Ham showed their quality once again in Europe against a team that was going through so much scandal. The fact that the the #6 roel that had been in Europe since the 70s was called the makelel position in England simply because everyone played 442 and now Makelele is deified as some myythical defensive MF examplifies how far behind England are behind the continent.
Everyone
God you're such a WUM. See that you even like and respect Klopp's opinion for once when it suits you, he's no more an idiot when he says something that suits your agenda. I'd imagine that you're more fond of him since you actively cheered his club in EL and celebrated their wins though.He lost comprehensively to a team that Barca B could apparently beat with ease in Europa League final, where does that put Liverpool and Premier League?
Before the Europa league final where Liverpool where embarrassed 3-0:
Klopp on La lIga:
Jurgen Klopp has hailed La Liga as the best domestic competition in world football ahead of Liverpool's Europa League final against two-time defending champions Sevilla in Basle.
Spanish sides have dominated European competition in recent years, with Sevilla's success mirrored by Real Madrid and Barcelona winning the Champions League in 2014 and 2015 respectively. This year's final will be contested by Real Madrid and Atletico Madrid.
Klopp told a news conference: "It's the best football country I would say, a combination of good managers, scouting, good education of players.
"Lots of young players from South America like to go to Spain because they can settle in. There are a lot of reasons, but at this moment La Liga is the highest level and it is the job of everybody else to reach this level and pass them.
"Germany were the last world champions, then Spain [before them], so things can change!
"Spain's status is deserved, but hopefully on Wednesday nobody will see it."
The goal post for the premier league keeps changing. This best league in the world rhetoric was never used till EPL teams started going deep into the champions league between 05-2011 ish. Then when English teams failed consistently, the best league started changing to the most 'exciting'. The only reason the EPL is exciting is because it is end to end, players run without sense and there is no structure in building attacking moves relative to La Liga and the bundesliga. Bundesliga and La liga teams press more than the EPL teams so the myth that the EPL is the most difficult in terms of physicality is baffling. The reason why it is more 'physical' is because more emphaisis is placed on individuals rather than collective execution. Las Palmas have better build up and pass better than every single EPL team bar Manchester City at the moment. The myth that Arsenal play like Barcelona is just that. Arsenals Positon game is pathetic compared to la liga teams. The spacing issue alays happens to them. This is just basics that are taught in youth teams in Spain. The pressing in ENgland is awful and unstructured and is easy to bypass because again, there is no emphasis on collectivism and everything is about individuals.
Barcelona, Real Madrid and Atletico are the best teams in Europe. The average game in the EPl is unwatchable. These teams can't pass properly and build up properly and it just because a sit back and counter exercise. I will cite Las Palmas once again, they play better football and pass better than any team in the EPL. Sunderland? Hull City? Middlesborough? These teams are all terrible.
West Ham showed their quality once again in Europe against a team that was going through so much scandal. The fact that the the #6 roel that had been in Europe since the 70s was called the makelel position in England simply because everyone played 442 and now Makelele is deified as some myythical defensive MF examplifies how far behind England are behind the continent.
More proof that football managers talk a lot of nonsense.When Makalele came to England, we'd had midfielders like Keane, Gerrard, Vieira, etc. plying their trade in England for years. They were world class players and a first XI of world class players in a cogent system will always trump something more fashionable. There's no such thing as being 'behind the continent'. Fergie would invent the 'false 9' only a couple of years later, but people don't seem to say the continent was 'behind England'. We weren't following the same trends at the same time, but that doesn't mean we were worse. Quite the contrary. The 2000's were when the PL was the strongest league in the world. Tactics that work are more important than tactics that look flashy.Before the Europa league final where Liverpool where embarrassed 3-0:
Klopp on La lIga:
Jurgen Klopp has hailed La Liga as the best domestic competition in world football ahead of Liverpool's Europa League final against two-time defending champions Sevilla in Basle.
Spanish sides have dominated European competition in recent years, with Sevilla's success mirrored by Real Madrid and Barcelona winning the Champions League in 2014 and 2015 respectively. This year's final will be contested by Real Madrid and Atletico Madrid.
Klopp told a news conference: "It's the best football country I would say, a combination of good managers, scouting, good education of players.
"Lots of young players from South America like to go to Spain because they can settle in. There are a lot of reasons, but at this moment La Liga is the highest level and it is the job of everybody else to reach this level and pass them.
"Germany were the last world champions, then Spain [before them], so things can change!
"Spain's status is deserved, but hopefully on Wednesday nobody will see it."
The goal post for the premier league keeps changing. This best league in the world rhetoric was never used till EPL teams started going deep into the champions league between 05-2011 ish. Then when English teams failed consistently, the best league started changing to the most 'exciting'. The only reason the EPL is exciting is because it is end to end, players run without sense and there is no structure in building attacking moves relative to La Liga and the bundesliga. Bundesliga and La liga teams press more than the EPL teams so the myth that the EPL is the most difficult in terms of physicality is baffling. The reason why it is more 'physical' is because more emphaisis is placed on individuals rather than collective execution. Las Palmas have better build up and pass better than every single EPL team bar Manchester City at the moment. The myth that Arsenal play like Barcelona is just that. Arsenals Positon game is pathetic compared to la liga teams. The spacing issue alays happens to them. This is just basics that are taught in youth teams in Spain. The pressing in ENgland is awful and unstructured and is easy to bypass because again, there is no emphasis on collectivism and everything is about individuals.
Barcelona, Real Madrid and Atletico are the best teams in Europe. The average game in the EPl is unwatchable. These teams can't pass properly and build up properly and it just because a sit back and counter exercise. I will cite Las Palmas once again, they play better football and pass better than any team in the EPL. Sunderland? Hull City? Middlesborough? These teams are all terrible.
West Ham showed their quality once again in Europe against a team that was going through so much scandal. The fact that the the #6 roel that had been in Europe since the 70s was called the makelel position in England simply because everyone played 442 and now Makelele is deified as some myythical defensive MF examplifies how far behind England are behind the continent.
And since last season, the Premier League has strengthened significantly, both on the playing and management side. I doubt Klopp would say the same again.
He'll just tell you that one off games mean nothing. You're wasting your time.Everyone
He lost comprehensively to a team that Barca B could apparently beat with ease in Europa League final, where does that put Liverpool and Premier League?
Barca, Real, Bayern are still ahead in terms of sheer quality. But if anything the gap has closed down a bit. Ofcourse it will take some years (at least 2) for one or two of the English teams to match them. But this has nothing to do with the competitiveness of a league which is more dependent on the relative quality of teams being close to each other.
The reason that it was called the Makelele position is because there was no single pivote in the EPl at the time. Keane, Viera etc were not single pivotes. Teams played with #6s back then so when Mourinho came and just stuck Makelel there, he had numerical superiority in midfield and so his 433 dominated England because English teams, especially at that time, played with a maximum of 4 lines (including the goal keepr). Rijkaard, Redondo etc all played the #6 role. I mean noone in Spain called it the redondo position or the Guardiola position etc Makelele even played in Spain and noone there called it Makelele position simply because it had been used for well over a decade there.
And as for the false 9, Lord Cruijff used Laudrup as a false 9 in the early 90s, lord Cruijff himself was a flase 9 under Michels in the 70s, van Basten was a false 9 under Lord Cruijff in Ajax in the 80s.
Yep. Football games in general mean nothing. Someone cannot possibly convince me that Las Palmas who spend €4m on transfers are better than Sunderland who spend £40m and have players whose names Twigg knows. Some random idiot abroad cannot be better than Cattermole and Rodwell.