How can you say the PL is the strongest when we finish 4th last season, are 6th this season whil we're an absolute atrocious side that got embarassed in Europe. To me it shows how poor the standard in the PL really is. We cant create more than 2 chances in a game, and pass to the same color 5 times in the opponents half.
The relative strength of the Premier League
- Thread starter Wumminator
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Twigg thinks we are "fantastic".
Yeah I think we are a good team that is made to look worse than we are because of the strength of the teams we come up against.
The only reason why we look like shit is because the PL is so tough and awesome. It doesn't matter that we have been shit in Europe too, because around 10 games aren't enough to judge. We have money and big names, so we have to be awesome and if there are still 5 teams who are more awesome that clearly means the PL is super awesome. We are also as good as Atletico and therefore as good as Real and yeah England has produced the same quality of youngsters as Spain and Germany which you could see in the last few World Cups and Euros or maybe not, but it doesn't matter anyway because those 10 games are not enough to make a judgment.
Yet Leicester doesn't have a problem defeating those strong teams.
We were shit in Europe as well, if played vs bloody PSV 10 times, they'd win more ofter than we would. The PL is just full of overrated, and overprices players, the millions they cost, or the hyoe the Daily Mail etc give them, doesnt make them one bit better.
We played really well against PSV.
The Daily Mail has got absolutely nothing to do with this.
At home? We were an abomination...
Away we were okay within the context of the game, but we didn't play "really well" ... I mean, we did lose the game.
You can play well and lose.
You can have an off day and win.
To suggest we wouldn't beat PSV more than they would beat us is ridiculous.
I mean, we've played them twice, and they've beat us once, and we haven't beat them... so is it that ridiculous?
You can play well and lose, but "really well" is a bit of a stretch... regardless though, we were absolutely terrible in the home game, one of our worst performances of the season, and that's saying something.
To sum up the last two pages, basically Twigg reckons PL players are better because they are more expensive despite the fact that one of the least expensive teams is leading the league?
But we have also got knocked out in the group stage of the CL. Which is something that used to never happen to PL clubs when there was a big 4.
There were 3-4 years of United Chelsea Arsenal Liverpool consistently in the CL, and often getting to the semis. That ended a little after Ronaldo left, whici was symbolically when the PL lost its shine.
Nowadays it is Barca and Bayern. Then Real in a weird spot, below the top but above the rest. Juve, PSG, Atletico and maybe Dortmund below them. No current PL team is at the level of those.
These are (in general) the teams knocking each other out, and these are the matches deciding the CL.
But that doesn't stretch to CL. We came up against teams from dreadful leagues and still looked poor, including a team from abysmal Bundesliga. 7th best team there.
How can you name Bayern - they have players that did not cost a transfer sum like Lewandowski, Müller, Lahm or Alaba - and Boateng just was a bad player in the EPL....
And about 10 teams in Europe spent more on transfers the recent 3-5 years than Bayern did...
They only play in the Bundesliga.
Does it help that the only player Bayern has that won the Golden Boy usually does not make the starting formation...
Interesting to hear Mourinho talk on BTSport then. Claiming he has a disadvantage v Spanish teams as "Some leagues are decided in February"
As someone who has managed in both leagues, very pertinent to this thread.
As someone who has managed in both leagues, very pertinent to this thread.
More interesting because in 2 of his 3 seasons La Liga went down to the wire, with his own team involved.
La Liga is decided by February? He was probably talking about PSG?
No talking about Atletico v Chelsea.
Basically saying because of the intensity of the Premier League he finds that La Liga teams have it easier.
As someone who has managed both high level teams (perhaps the only manager of the last decade) it's really interesting to here him say that.
How is the league decided in January though?
If anything, it was Chelsea who had an easy ride in the PL last season as they ran away with it.
Mourinho has had experience in both leagues but he absolutely hated his time in La Liga. He was much happier in England, and when he came back to the PL, he lauded it as much as he could. It is a great league (PL) of course, but Mourinho does have a clear and big preference.
His exact quotes. "Some countries at the moment it is easier for them. A team that is champions league in February is easier than a team playing until May. An example I played Chelsea v Athletico. Two days later I played Liverpool. I would look at Athletico, Real Madrid and Barcelona and I would look at Bayern. I would look at the competitiveness over ten month. They arrive in better conditions than other clubs. First of all it's about individual players. To give you an example, Messi wins the champions league. I think it is easier to win with him than against him. It is an obvious reality some players make a difference."
What does it actually mean? Sounds like Jose making excuses as usual. Bad luck that they played Liverpool a few days later, but that's pure luck. They could have been playing West Brom.
His basic point is summarised in the article,
"Speaking exclusively to BT Sport's Matt Smith, Jose Mourinho says the "competitive realities" of the Premier League mean it's easier for Spanish and German teams to win the Champions League."
Basically he thinks it's easier for those teams in the CL at the moment because their leagues are less competitive.
Depends on how good you are. "Competitive realities" didn't stop us from making 3 finals in 4 years with 1 CL win to our name. It's an excuse trawled out when you lack quality.
"Sorry we would have won, but West Brom and Newcastle just take so much out of us"
"Sorry we would have won, but West Brom and Newcastle just take so much out of us"
Yeah, it does depend on how good you and the league are. Remember what I said earlier about earlier on in the decade being a turning point....
Think it's interesting to see probably the man who would know the realities better than anyone else say the CL is harder for English teams. Definitely worth posting in this thread.
Leagues are both great. His team wasn't good enough. It is interesting but Jose has a bit of a hard-on for the PL, and making excuses for his "legend", and a dislike for La Liga. Worth posting in this thread, I agree.
He'll fecking make excuses for his legacy either way. Not sure it helps him out though as he wasn't exactly a maestro at Madrid in the CL.
Using money to rate a league is too simplistic. Youth development, good scouting can negate the need for big money transfers. Continental clubs are simply better than PL clubs at this aspect.
Yep, that's why I take what he says with a pinch of salt.
Mourinho isn't exactly the best source if you want an impartial and objective opinion.
I also disagree with the listing of managers.
Klopp did a wonderful job at Dortmund, but Tuchel has made them a lot better in many ways with almost the same squad.
Wenger has been past it for many years now.
Conte's Juve looked great, but so does Allegri's who are up 2-0 in Munich now.
Van Gaal seems past it too.
Mourinho wasn't super successful at Madrid (considering his squad, budget) and everything considered his Chelsea side was disappointing too.
Not saying these are all shit, but they might not be head and shoulders above their counterparts any more.
I also disagree with the listing of managers.
Klopp did a wonderful job at Dortmund, but Tuchel has made them a lot better in many ways with almost the same squad.
Wenger has been past it for many years now.
Conte's Juve looked great, but so does Allegri's who are up 2-0 in Munich now.
Van Gaal seems past it too.
Mourinho wasn't super successful at Madrid (considering his squad, budget) and everything considered his Chelsea side was disappointing too.
Not saying these are all shit, but they might not be head and shoulders above their counterparts any more.
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Why?
Because of money and because the PL is super awesome.
One has to explain Leicester.
How do you reconcile their meteoric rise with the idea that the league is genuinely very strong? And you have to do that. If Leicester is not a genuinely very strong team (comparable to Europe's finest), then the basic idea suffers (greatly). There are some possible explanations, however:
* They were always this good, or close – but under-performed horribly before Ranieri came in.
* They somehow managed to upgrade to an almost unprecedented degree, either by hiring Ranieri (who then becomes a manager of almost unprecedented genius) or by strengthening otherwise (but how?) - thus going from being genuinely poor-to-mediocre (within the context of the league) to being genuinely top-of-the-line.
* Every team in the league is top-of-the-line. Whether you struggle to avoid relegation or are involved in the title race is a matter of extremely fine margins.
How do you reconcile their meteoric rise with the idea that the league is genuinely very strong? And you have to do that. If Leicester is not a genuinely very strong team (comparable to Europe's finest), then the basic idea suffers (greatly). There are some possible explanations, however:
* They were always this good, or close – but under-performed horribly before Ranieri came in.
* They somehow managed to upgrade to an almost unprecedented degree, either by hiring Ranieri (who then becomes a manager of almost unprecedented genius) or by strengthening otherwise (but how?) - thus going from being genuinely poor-to-mediocre (within the context of the league) to being genuinely top-of-the-line.
* Every team in the league is top-of-the-line. Whether you struggle to avoid relegation or are involved in the title race is a matter of extremely fine margins.
Ok mate, I'll stay on this side of the argument with Mourinho and you keep posting like that.
Leicester I'll go into more detail ever but it's a mixture of form, signings and the fact that they aren't that much better than others but their rivals are dropping points to a degree they wouldn't normally in a less competitive league.
Why?
So now you basically want to dismiss Real Madrid and Atletico as terrible too seeing as Barcelona left them far behind too.
There is no way a team like Leicester would be topping a genuinely strong league. Even someone as deluded as you has to recognize that at some point.
You keep putting words into my mouth. I'm not saying we dismiss them. I said their league is less competitive. Now Mourinho (who is the only person in the world who might know these things) agrees.