He is far and away the better boxer. The only reason the fights were close was the size difference. What was it, 4 stone?
The RedCafe Boxing Thread
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It was this time. I’m not sure why he decided to carry that extra weight into the second fight because he couldn’t get close enough to Uysk to use it and it definitely felt like he tired quicker.
Or forget that he failed a drug test
Yet again, they're talking about Fury vs Joshua.
I don't really see the point, at this stage. Joshua is done at the highest level, Fury will beat him up within 3 rounds. With nothing on the line, so to speak, it's just a money spinner, pension fund, for all involved. This should have happened around the time they both beat Klitschko. It's irrelevant now.
I don't really see the point, at this stage. Joshua is done at the highest level, Fury will beat him up within 3 rounds. With nothing on the line, so to speak, it's just a money spinner, pension fund, for all involved. This should have happened around the time they both beat Klitschko. It's irrelevant now.
3 rounds? Can't see that, at all. Fury is not a big puncher. Would be shocked at that, tbh.
It's rare that one of my boxing opinions turns out to be correct. So, I'm happy about that. But I've always thought there was something weird with the way the media overhyped Fury. And it wasn't just the UK press. It was bizarre. After he beat WIlder in the 3rd fight I remember kevin Iole at yahoo calling him an all time great and i spat out my coffee!
There was loads of conversation about him being an all-time great, you only have to go back a couple of years in this thread. It always struck me as a bizarre level of fanboyism….because he’s not even a particularly likeable character to warrant that kind of bizarre opinion
I think that it's was helped by Usyk fighting at Cruiserweight for a while. Otherwise as noob the first time I saw him, I was really impressed but it never really crossed my mind to compare him to much bigger boxers. I suspect that Usyk would have killed the hype for a bunch of heavyweight in the past 10 years.
Cruisers definitely weren’t supposed to be able to come up and handle heavies and there was acknowledgment of Usyk’s abilities for years, even in this thread before he made the step up, but the 40, 50, 60lb gap in weight was perceived as way too much of a gap to bridge, by boxers and fans alike.
Usyk reasserts the theory that there is an optimum weight for a HW and that these massive, oversized guys aren’t it. Usyk doesn’t even carry the power of the golden age HW’s yet easily rocks these giants; he’s really shit on the era because there’s now no doubt it’s extremely weak compared to the ages of the Titans.
Fury undoubtedly has a skill level above many heavyweights. But he’s lacking in so many other areas. One is power, he really doesn’t carry much. Dedication is another. And I don’t believe he has the mental toughness and bravery many credit him for. Saturday was crying out for him to get on the front foot and be as offensive and aggressive as possible, instead he was timid and fell into the trap of trying to outbox the better boxer. Not taking anything away from Usyk of course
Yeah, that's my point Usyk was highly rated but I don't know if he was directly put in conversations with heavyweights which in hindsight helped their hype because otherwise if you compare any of them to Usyk, there is a big problem in nearly all aspects other than power. And they would all have to answer the question about whether they can handle Usyk?
Joshua and Fury basically told him to stay where he is because he’s under sized for the division. The issue is that the size discrepancy has gotten so huge in the 00’s through to the ‘20’s that it became a kind of consensus. That notion of these massively scary HW’s because they’re huge is dead now though. It tells us they’d have been obliterated in the ’70’s, ‘90’s and would have a tough time in the ‘60’s and ‘80’s.
You’re right though, Usyk coming up earlier would’ve ruined the hype machine entirely.
Absolutely agree. When he took the initiative and got on the front foot, he was getting some joy and was backing Usyk up. I think he only did that in something like two rounds, though.
Maybe he didn't have the stamina for it. It was a bit weird when after the 10th his corner were like keep doing that and you're good. In the 11th he backed off again and before the 12th Sugarhill was suddenly very animated as he knew he'd probably blown it by then.
Is anyone outside Britain excited for AJ v Fury?
The media are hyping it up but It feels like two English teams eliminated from The Champions League getting a big Wembley exhibition match.
The media are hyping it up but It feels like two English teams eliminated from The Champions League getting a big Wembley exhibition match.
If Fury vs Joshua was in the UK with a bit of atmosphere, it could be worth watching but I wouldn't excited for it now.
I think there would be a bit of excitement for Fury/Joshua but not too fussed about it personally as it seems it will be the heavyweight version of Brook/Khan.
Would like to see Dubois v Usyk again which is the only fight for Usyk really.
Would like to see Dubois v Usyk again which is the only fight for Usyk really.
Imagine if it were Joshua v Fury at Wrestlemania 
Imagine if it were Joshua v Fury at Wrestlemania
Joshua Fury in a hell in a cell could get people excited.
They’re still two of the top heavyweight’s in the world despite coming off losses, so I guess if you can’t excited about it, what are you going to get excited about in the heavyweight division.
Everyone will be tuned in and I’m sure it’ll have far more posts in this thread during the build up than the weekend just gone.
Everyone will be tuned in and I’m sure it’ll have far more posts in this thread during the build up than the weekend just gone.
If it was made it’ll be popular as hell. Purely because they genuinely don’t like each other so the shit-talking in the build up will be real. The Usyk fights for both of them have been devoid of that kind of hype…..the social media war between AJ and Fury would have the fight at fever pitch by the time it happened
This is exactly it. If he had the win-at-all-costs attitude he’d have said “feck the risk, I’m going to go out and hurt him”. Which to be fair is exactly what he said beforehand….he just didn’t do it in the ring. It was, in the most part, a conservative bordering on cowardly performance
That’s not really fair. As I said to @The Hilton Fury felt Usyk’s power and knew that he could - and was - hurt him. Fury is a technical boxer, not a war machine and he’d get blasted for abandoning his principles if he went in and got bombed out for being reckless, especially early in the fight.
I reckon he prepared to do what he said and very quickly realised it wasn’t such a good idea once he felt the pressure coming back at him as well as the difficulty he had with maintaining his own pace and output.
Then he chose the wrong tactic, as Usyk was always going to outbox him.
His best chance was front foot aggression….that got him the most success when he did it, he just didn’t do enough of it
It would also have most likely got him knocked out, which is why he didn’t do it enough.
I think it’s also important to note that Fury win or lose, never gets outboxed, so Usyk beating him to punches and cutting him off at perfect interjecting points would have been a shock to the system and something he had to adjust to on the hop.
Evidently, Fury hasn’t the capability to bomb out an Usyk, and that’s probably dawned on him during the fight.
I don't think it was Usyk's power really, Fury has been in with much bigger punchers, it's more Usyk's supreme fitness allied with his speed and footwork.
Fury had plenty of successful moments, but he couldn't capitalise on them, nor keep up the pace. I think he expected to get Usyk out of there early on, but that's hard to understand as he must know he isn't a big individual puncher.
Fury's best period against Usyk was rounds 4-6 in the first fight where he dominated to the point of toying with Usyk, if he'd had the focus he did from this fight there's every chance he could have gone on to win. He needed to take the same approach from the first fight, minus the clowning around, rather than the Rocky style throwing bombs approach.
Usyk is the kryptonite to Fury because he cancels out Fury's main weapons: his size and his boxing skill. I said before the fight he fears Usyk, if he didn't then he definitely does now.
I think it's more about the engine than focus. He couldn't capitalise because he didn't have gas in the tank to do so. Usyk's engine is unmatched by heavyweights and he knows that as long as he keeps the pace up and pressures them relentlessly, they can't keep up.
Usyk is also great at nullifying your success by coming back at you with similar shots or better. Like most great fighters, when he gets tagged he fires right back to let you know that’s what to expect each time you get through. That will always give an opponent pause for thought.
Yeah but not better boxers; that's the first time he's experienced superior boxing and if you have a whole body of work predicated on being outright better at something than those you face, it's got to be a shock to the system.
It's not really about being the most powerful puncher with regard to Usyk, but having enough power to dissuade and distract, which he has proven with everyone at HW except Whyte - who incidentally has the punch resistance a tier or two lower than those from the 90's and 70's - and it has played a huge factor in how he has been approached by fighters who have relied on their size throughout their careers.
It's one thing to be outgunned or outboxed, but in combination, it presents a very different kind of puzzle and I think that is being underestimated in terms of why Fury had the approach that he did, and that's with being mindful of his own tank and awareness of Usyk's already being superior let alone with the added weight to contend with.
There are loads of these doing the rounds now, showing the amount of times Fury got fired back on in ways he didn't like.
Always was weird to me that Fury beating a poor skilled boxer like Wilder 2 times was meant to be some goat level legacy.
This is why Fury backed off him. He kept getting licked with stinging shots, enough of those and he ends up on the deck like the first fight. Psychologically Usyk had Fury exactly where he wanted him.
Ironically, Fury getting knocked down in the first fight helped him sell the second and third fights. With a better defence, those other fights don’t need to happen and we probably see him fight AJ already.
Usyk's best punches came when Fury stayed on the outside and was being tentative. In the few rounds when Fury came forward Usyk was backing up. As far as I remember he wasn't able to step forward and time those shots.
Fury wasn't fit enough or comfortable with to keep it up but it looked like his only possible route to victory. I was surprised he wasn't really using his extra weight to clinch and lean on Usyk a lot more.
It's like the Brook v Khan fight, none of the fans really want to see it anymore. Just like you said, money making for them and the promoters.
Prime Klitschko beats fury quite comfortably on points in my opinion, very underrated.
I would still like to see Fury vs Joshua. It’s a shame it’s not a few years ago, but it’s not like they are completely washed up and I think their styles match up pretty well. They are still both towards the top end of the division.
Have a feeling the buildup to the fight will be the main attraction.
Yeah, Fury could really sink his teeth into winding Joshua up, I’m sure.