The RedCafe Boxing Thread

I think it's more about the engine than focus. He couldn't capitalise because he didn't have gas in the tank to do so. Usyk's engine is unmatched by heavyweights and he knows that as long as he keeps the pace up and pressures them relentlessly, they can't keep up.

I have to disagree, the first fight was definitely about lack of focus for Fury, I know Usyk's engine is ridiculous but Fury was completely dominant in the middle part of that fight, and then he started wasting energy and time clowning around. Normally Fury has got a good engine too - not to the level of Usyk, but still very good - as evidenced by him recovering from the knockdown and boxing well again in the final round of the fight.

In the second fight he definitely ran out of gas, he came in too heavy and negated his own strengths to try to turn into a one punch KO artist, something he'll never be.
 
Prime Klitschko beats fury quite comfortably on points in my opinion, very underrated.

Klitschko was incredibly one-note. He was chinny and robotic, and relied a lot on his size and friendly judges. Fury beat him because he's better than Klitschko at being Klitschko.
 
Yeah but not better boxers; that's the first time he's experienced superior boxing and if you have a whole body of work predicated on being outright better at something than those you face, it's got to be a shock to the system.

It's not really about being the most powerful puncher with regard to Usyk, but having enough power to dissuade and distract, which he has proven with everyone at HW except Whyte - who incidentally has the punch resistance a tier or two lower than those from the 90's and 70's - and it has played a huge factor in how he has been approached by fighters who have relied on their size throughout their careers.

It's one thing to be outgunned or outboxed, but in combination, it presents a very different kind of puzzle and I think that is being underestimated in terms of why Fury had the approach that he did, and that's with being mindful of his own tank and awareness of Usyk's already being superior let alone with the added weight to contend with.

Fury wasn't outgunned by Usyk though, if by that you're meaning "hits harder". In terms of individual punching power neither are elite, with Fury having a slight edge. The main difference in the second fight is that Fury would take at least 2 for every 1 he landed, but that's a lot to do with him taking the wrong approach to it.

As for outboxed, Usyk definitely outboxed Fury in this fight, but the previous fight was very even, with both dominating for periods and Fury likely costing himself the win by clowning around while he was on top and letting Usyk back into it. That's why it's so bizarre he came in with this hay(e)maker approach when more of the same without the silliness and mistakes would have been a much better approach. Even in terms of their stamina, while Usyk's ridiculous tank is in a class of it's own, Fury's is still elite, in the first fight he recovered from the KD and boxed well in the final round.
 
Klitschko was incredibly one-note. He was chinny and robotic, and relied a lot on his size and friendly judges. Fury beat him because he's better than Klitschko at being Klitschko.
To be fair after he got under steward he devoloped a mean jab and great ring generalship, admittedly he did abuse the clinching free getaway card but still.

Also he packed one he'll of a punch, among the very best, a hard beat for anyone.
 
Fury vs Joshua would generate broad attention and relatively good money imho, just spinning it as one-in-one-out elimination game for the upcoming couple years at the top of the HW divsion? Also consider Usyk could really move down to cruiser, again, after another match at HW against the big hitter, English speaking Dubois.
 
To be fair after he got under steward he devoloped a mean jab and great ring generalship, admittedly he did abuse the clinching free getaway card but still.

Also he packed one he'll of a punch, among the very best, a hard beat for anyone.

I'm not saying he was a pushover or anything, he was very good at what he did, but Fury was a hard counter for him really, so much of Klitschko's game was about using his size and reach, which Fury took away from him.
 
Fury vs Joshua would generate broad attention and relatively good money imho, just spinning it as one-in-one-out elimination game for the upcoming couple years at the top of the HW divsion? Also consider Usyk could really move down to cruiser, again, after another match at HW against the big hitter, English speaking Dubois.
Do you really see Usyk moving back down? I thought last weekend he finally looked like he had built up to being a solid looking HW, albeit still small in the context of Fury, Joshua etc.

There’s not really much pull to go back down either, is there?
 
Do you really see Usyk moving back down? I thought last weekend he finally looked like he had built up to being a solid looking HW, albeit still small in the context of Fury, Joshua etc.

There’s not really much pull to go back down either, is there?

He has (maybe) outgrown the role of the villain in this bubble? Forcing / luring him into a match vs Dubois to make amendment for the missed Fury III installment would serve him no good, either he wins or loses imho.
 
I have to disagree, the first fight was definitely about lack of focus for Fury, I know Usyk's engine is ridiculous but Fury was completely dominant in the middle part of that fight, and then he started wasting energy and time clowning around. Normally Fury has got a good engine too - not to the level of Usyk, but still very good - as evidenced by him recovering from the knockdown and boxing well again in the final round of the fight.

In the second fight he definitely ran out of gas, he came in too heavy and negated his own strengths to try to turn into a one punch KO artist, something he'll never be.
You're overselling the clowning around. A lot of that was for show, it's not like he was ahead as Usyk had definitely dominated the start of the fight. When he had success between rounds 4 to 6, to sustain it he'd have to keep up with Usyk who with that amateur-type pendulum stance is always a moving target, and he couldn't keep up, especially considering Usyk was always punch-busy even then.
 
Klitschko was incredibly one-note. He was chinny and robotic, and relied a lot on his size and friendly judges. Fury beat him because he's better than Klitschko at being Klitschko.
Fury beat Klitschko because Klitschko was past his best, the fact he was getting on and gave AJ and Fury a great fight says it all,

Great Jab, great power, ring IQ he was a great, if not very entertaining fighter. In his pomp he comfortably beats both and Usyk in my opinion