I'm more taking the piss out of the heavyweights who dismissed Usyk.
The RedCafe Boxing Thread
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
Quite a few ranked 10-20 would take him on for a Turki payday but not take jobbers wages to face him.
It's up to Fwank whether or not he wants to match him that highly and take the associated risk.
Joyce is probably the best next opponent for him all things considered.
As I mentioned a couple of times in previous posts, Joyce has lost three of his last four fights and taken some heavy punches. He froze in a recent interview before the Dubois fight and many are suggesting he's seriously injured, especially as he's hardly been seen at all since his recent loss to Chisora. He's also 39 so the last thing he needs is losing to a up and coming hungry, powerful, rapidly quick fighter like Moses. Considering the concerns in the press and from his fans in boxing forums, I think he would have to undergo some pretty thorough examinations before he was given the OK to fight again. His reply to the rumours was hardly convincing either.
Yeah Joyce sounds punch drunk all the time, not surprised considering his style. There are 2 or 3 upcoming British heavyweights Moses could fight, but I guess they’ll be running scared. And the money’s always an issue of course. But I’m not too worried about Moses, he’s too good for boxing to pass on and Fwank knows what he’s doing the crafty bastard. Moses I could see boxing a lot in the states, they’ll love him there.
One thing that is kinda sad about this heavyweight era is that despite having a decent pool of talent, the resume of most of the top guys bar Usyk, really don't hold up well when to compared to historically great heavyweights.
What i mean by this is:
What i mean by this is:
- Fury's best win is Wilder but Wilder has such a thin resume, that its hard to rank how good he was (his best win is against Ortiz whose best win was Bryant Jennings? Charles Martin? not exactly world level...)
- Wilder losing to Parker and Zhang comprehensively harms him massively in terms of legacy.
- AJ has a decent resume (Parker win has aged really well imo) but lost to Ruiz (tbf he did avenge this), lost 2 times in comprehensive fashion to Usyk and then got blasted out by Dubois. On top of this he hasn't fought Fury or Wilder.
Both Fury and AJ's best win is Wlad, come on now
If Usyk beats Fury and Dubois has a rematch with AJ (debatable whether he should), and they both lose….theyll have a bad blood blockbuster AJ vs Fury - 10 years in the making - then call it quits.
Kind of be a romantic heavyweight style ending
It's just silly that folks try to underrate Usyk. He is the pure definition of generational. If not multi-generational.
When other boxers fight there's lot's of talk around are they in the right head space? Have they fully prepped? Did they have the right trainer and team? With Usyk, no one even bothers. The guy is just otherworldly - to carry that very evasive amateur type pendulum bounce/stance into the heavyweight category and not gas out is something else. Never any excuses - just does the business, and can take a hit as well.
Controversial take but Dubois wasn't that good in this fight, which shows how bad AJ was.
AJ was obviously on shaky legs, he was even falling on the canvas under no pressure, and yet when he actually worked to evade Dubois, he did it quite successfully. It was whenever he stupidly tried to engage (with hands down no less) that he was eating punches.
He came in looking to try and prove he was a level above and got completely mauled.
Everyone was on about Dubois's lack of defence, well, it was on show, but AJ's was way worse.
Put it this way, a heavyweight contender e.g. Bakole watching that would not come out thinking "oh no, I have to avoid Dubois now".
AJ was obviously on shaky legs, he was even falling on the canvas under no pressure, and yet when he actually worked to evade Dubois, he did it quite successfully. It was whenever he stupidly tried to engage (with hands down no less) that he was eating punches.
He came in looking to try and prove he was a level above and got completely mauled.
Everyone was on about Dubois's lack of defence, well, it was on show, but AJ's was way worse.
Put it this way, a heavyweight contender e.g. Bakole watching that would not come out thinking "oh no, I have to avoid Dubois now".
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Yh tbh fury's best win is Wlad but the only reason I didn't mention it is because Wlad fights against Fury and AJ are always highly debated. By that I mean: Fury is rightfully given full credit for beating Wlad (by a country mile), while when AJ fought Wlad, some have revised this as "Wlad was old, geriatric etc" which is funny because imo the Wlad that fought AJ was one of the best versions of Wlad I'd seen in his latter years
They both fought the old, end-of-his-career version of Wlad, of course, not the prime version(which AJ would have almost certainly lost to, going by their fight), but it was still Wlad. Likely enough to beat every other opponent they've faced bar Usyk, maybe
As said, I'm taking the piss out of the heavyweights and boxers that dismissed Usyk.
Fair enough, but in general in this thread there’s a complete lack of recognition for just how good Usyk is and what he’s achieved. For me, Tyson Fury showed how good he is by coming close to beating Usyk, because for me Usyk is up there with the Sugar Ray Robinsons of boxing.
CEJr not holding back. Scumbayyg.
Eubanks is right of course and yet the big money, the worldwide interest, the media publicity are there for the same exact reasons he joined them as a youngster. South America, Eastern Europe, East Asia are the other big environments for fight sports but I am not sure he would be able to point any of these countries on a map so yes, it is just bitterness because his career did not go as he hoped in his prime…… which is a memento to the latest shiny heavyweight boy you all are (rightly) hyping here: he needs to be veeery careful about his next steps!
Chisora on talkshite just then, how he can be talking of fighting on he could barely talk. The damage he has had to his brain is clear now.
Personally I think he’s overrated not underrated. Generational? Just don’t see it. How can he be so far ahead of the rest when he got a split decision over Fury in actually a much closer fight than people seem to remember and arguably would have lost to Dubois if he hadn’t had his shorts so high and possibly faked a low blow? That’s not a generational talent that’s miles ahead of the rest imo. I think he’s good but nowhere near as good as some want to make out
Fury has been long considered the best heavyweight of his generation. Usyk is not a natural heavyweight and the size difference between them was almost comical. He moved up from cruiserweight and beat every heavyweight champion, including Fury who had never lost, is an extremely skilled boxer, and a giant to boot. A cruiserweight moving up and cleaning up the heavyweight division is nothing short of generational. How many people before him had done that?
That’s on top of him cleaning up at cruiser, too, of course. And he did it all in everyone’s backyard. Deserves all the praise in the world.
The fact that the Fury fight was a split decision was scandalous. Usyk would've gotten jobbed on the cards without the KD.
Also it's crazy how TNT and the Dubois camp were able to sell this narrative Usyk was hit by a legit body shot. If the majority of the glove is below the belt line, then the ref is within his rights to award it a low blow. And besides, other than that one moment, Usyk pretty much dominated Dubois and made him quit. Is a refs discretion call enough to discredit Usyk? Surely not
Aye, he's the consensus greatest cruiuserweight ever (alongside Holyfield possibly), and has unified the heavyweight titles whilst being clearly undersized in this era of behemoth heavyweights. I'd concede that the Dubois win has an asterisk beside it, but Fury was a competitive but clear victory IMO. It's an extraordinary record for someone with only 22 professional fights.
I'm in the 'low blow' camp, but it was a borderline referee decision and given what Dubois has done since I'd love to see them rematch. Wins vs Fury and Dubois in rematches would be immense for his already incredible legacy.
That's certainly one way to tell it, the other is Usyk did his best impression of Simon Cowell and his high waisted trousers, which made blows to the lower stomach automatically look like illegal blows.
And of course Dubois is going to have the sails knocked out of him in terms of morale after seeing a good shot called bad, his opponent allowed to totally recover, recollect his thoughts and strategy and get back to it.
Usyk is an incredible fighter with the heart of a champion, clearly, but also not above "grabbing five" to clear his thoughts, which paints the picture of a wily strategist who will take advantage of a weak referee.
I don't know about 'discredit' - the referee is the one at fault and a smart opportunist took advantage of that - but that victory is controversial and Dubois' chance of winning was taken away from him. A better referee doesn't allow things to get to that stage because he tells Usyk to fix his shorts before he even walks out, and again inside the ring before opening round, if he's pulled them up again.