Both Fury and AJ's best win is Wlad, come on now
The RedCafe Boxing Thread
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If Usyk beats Fury and Dubois has a rematch with AJ (debatable whether he should), and they both lose….theyll have a bad blood blockbuster AJ vs Fury - 10 years in the making - then call it quits.
Kind of be a romantic heavyweight style ending
It's just silly that folks try to underrate Usyk. He is the pure definition of generational. If not multi-generational.
When other boxers fight there's lot's of talk around are they in the right head space? Have they fully prepped? Did they have the right trainer and team? With Usyk, no one even bothers. The guy is just otherworldly - to carry that very evasive amateur type pendulum bounce/stance into the heavyweight category and not gas out is something else. Never any excuses - just does the business, and can take a hit as well.
Controversial take but Dubois wasn't that good in this fight, which shows how bad AJ was.
AJ was obviously on shaky legs, he was even falling on the canvas under no pressure, and yet when he actually worked to evade Dubois, he did it quite successfully. It was whenever he stupidly tried to engage (with hands down no less) that he was eating punches.
He came in looking to try and prove he was a level above and got completely mauled.
Everyone was on about Dubois's lack of defence, well, it was on show, but AJ's was way worse.
Put it this way, a heavyweight contender e.g. Bakole watching that would not come out thinking "oh no, I have to avoid Dubois now".
AJ was obviously on shaky legs, he was even falling on the canvas under no pressure, and yet when he actually worked to evade Dubois, he did it quite successfully. It was whenever he stupidly tried to engage (with hands down no less) that he was eating punches.
He came in looking to try and prove he was a level above and got completely mauled.
Everyone was on about Dubois's lack of defence, well, it was on show, but AJ's was way worse.
Put it this way, a heavyweight contender e.g. Bakole watching that would not come out thinking "oh no, I have to avoid Dubois now".
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Yh tbh fury's best win is Wlad but the only reason I didn't mention it is because Wlad fights against Fury and AJ are always highly debated. By that I mean: Fury is rightfully given full credit for beating Wlad (by a country mile), while when AJ fought Wlad, some have revised this as "Wlad was old, geriatric etc" which is funny because imo the Wlad that fought AJ was one of the best versions of Wlad I'd seen in his latter years
They both fought the old, end-of-his-career version of Wlad, of course, not the prime version(which AJ would have almost certainly lost to, going by their fight), but it was still Wlad. Likely enough to beat every other opponent they've faced bar Usyk, maybe
As said, I'm taking the piss out of the heavyweights and boxers that dismissed Usyk.
Fair enough, but in general in this thread there’s a complete lack of recognition for just how good Usyk is and what he’s achieved. For me, Tyson Fury showed how good he is by coming close to beating Usyk, because for me Usyk is up there with the Sugar Ray Robinsons of boxing.
CEJr not holding back. Scumbayyg.
Eubanks is right of course and yet the big money, the worldwide interest, the media publicity are there for the same exact reasons he joined them as a youngster. South America, Eastern Europe, East Asia are the other big environments for fight sports but I am not sure he would be able to point any of these countries on a map so yes, it is just bitterness because his career did not go as he hoped in his prime…… which is a memento to the latest shiny heavyweight boy you all are (rightly) hyping here: he needs to be veeery careful about his next steps!
Chisora on talkshite just then, how he can be talking of fighting on he could barely talk. The damage he has had to his brain is clear now.
Personally I think he’s overrated not underrated. Generational? Just don’t see it. How can he be so far ahead of the rest when he got a split decision over Fury in actually a much closer fight than people seem to remember and arguably would have lost to Dubois if he hadn’t had his shorts so high and possibly faked a low blow? That’s not a generational talent that’s miles ahead of the rest imo. I think he’s good but nowhere near as good as some want to make out
Fury has been long considered the best heavyweight of his generation. Usyk is not a natural heavyweight and the size difference between them was almost comical. He moved up from cruiserweight and beat every heavyweight champion, including Fury who had never lost, is an extremely skilled boxer, and a giant to boot. A cruiserweight moving up and cleaning up the heavyweight division is nothing short of generational. How many people before him had done that?
That’s on top of him cleaning up at cruiser, too, of course. And he did it all in everyone’s backyard. Deserves all the praise in the world.
The fact that the Fury fight was a split decision was scandalous. Usyk would've gotten jobbed on the cards without the KD.
Also it's crazy how TNT and the Dubois camp were able to sell this narrative Usyk was hit by a legit body shot. If the majority of the glove is below the belt line, then the ref is within his rights to award it a low blow. And besides, other than that one moment, Usyk pretty much dominated Dubois and made him quit. Is a refs discretion call enough to discredit Usyk? Surely not
Aye, he's the consensus greatest cruiuserweight ever (alongside Holyfield possibly), and has unified the heavyweight titles whilst being clearly undersized in this era of behemoth heavyweights. I'd concede that the Dubois win has an asterisk beside it, but Fury was a competitive but clear victory IMO. It's an extraordinary record for someone with only 22 professional fights.
I'm in the 'low blow' camp, but it was a borderline referee decision and given what Dubois has done since I'd love to see them rematch. Wins vs Fury and Dubois in rematches would be immense for his already incredible legacy.
That's certainly one way to tell it, the other is Usyk did his best impression of Simon Cowell and his high waisted trousers, which made blows to the lower stomach automatically look like illegal blows.
And of course Dubois is going to have the sails knocked out of him in terms of morale after seeing a good shot called bad, his opponent allowed to totally recover, recollect his thoughts and strategy and get back to it.
Usyk is an incredible fighter with the heart of a champion, clearly, but also not above "grabbing five" to clear his thoughts, which paints the picture of a wily strategist who will take advantage of a weak referee.
I don't know about 'discredit' - the referee is the one at fault and a smart opportunist took advantage of that - but that victory is controversial and Dubois' chance of winning was taken away from him. A better referee doesn't allow things to get to that stage because he tells Usyk to fix his shorts before he even walks out, and again inside the ring before opening round, if he's pulled them up again.
Just watched Four Kings on Amazon and WOW! Growing up watching those guys and being a huge Benn and Bruno fan. I remember listening to Bruno lose to Tyson on the radio. I stayed up and can still remember how excited I got when Bruno hurt Tyson and then how gutted I was when he lost. But ultimately as Benn says on the Series, Bruno just never had the killer instinct.
It's a great watch, it doesn't really show anything we didn't know, well it might, but I have followed these guys since I was a teenager so it was more a case of reminiscing than revelation. Although sadly, the one thing I did learn from the series disappointed me, angered and upset me even.
I recommend any boxing fans to give it a watch and see these absolute legends of British boxing tell their stories.
It's a great watch, it doesn't really show anything we didn't know, well it might, but I have followed these guys since I was a teenager so it was more a case of reminiscing than revelation. Although sadly, the one thing I did learn from the series disappointed me, angered and upset me even.
I recommend any boxing fans to give it a watch and see these absolute legends of British boxing tell their stories.
No talk at all about the big fight?
It's not at HW so limited interest on here.
Clarke/Wardley II probably gets more discussion.
The bill topper is potentially a fight for the ages and absolutely nobody can say with much confidence who will win.
A proper 50-50 fight. I think Bivol will nick it on points but also wouldn't surprise me if Beterbiev manages to stop him.
It’s a great clash of styles; I think I’d lean towards a Bivol decision too.
Can’t wait.
Can’t wait.
Starting it tonight.
Finished it was a great watch. Dunno if it was the same thing but I was angered by
Lewis being reluctant to properly acknowledge the hurt he'd caused.
Not to skip ahead and over the card this weekend which is brilliant and headlined by the best fight in boxing but... Fury-Usyk 2 undercard taking shape nicely:
- Israil Madrimov v Serhii Bohachuk - should be a great fight considering their last contests, really rate Madrimov and gave Crawford perhaps his toughest test to date, whilst Bohachuk's fight with highly-rated Vergil Ortiz could have gone either way.
- Moses Itauma v Demsey McKean - should be perceived as a bit of a step-up for Itauma considering McKean was last in with Hrgovic and is 22-1. Might end up not being all that competitive but certainly it advances Moses up the rankings in terms of world level.
- Johnny Fisher v Dave Allen - this should be just a good old-fashioned domestic level HW scrap.
- Dennis McCann v Peter McGrail - brilliant fight, in terms of UK fighters who aren't yet at world-level these are 2 of the most talented fighters around in any weight class. Winner should be right in the mix for belts straight away.
- Isaac Lowe v Lee McGregor - expecting this to be another entertaining domestic / European level scrap, McGregor looking to continue getting his career back on track but Lowe is a test for anyone.
Absofeckinglutely. Spot on, that's exactly what upset me.
Johnny Fisher will run over Dave Allen but the rest looks alright.
I really enjoyed it. Eubank is comedy gold.
I'm not so sure about that, Allen has been a decent test for a few and Fisher is English title level at best until proven otherwise - he's beaten absolutely nobody with a pulse thus far (Alen Babic doesn't count, awful fighter who should also be a cruiserweight).
Allen hasn’t turned up for a fight in years and has dined out on some weird cult reputation whilst doing absolutely nothing. He’s retired about 4 times and will be there for the money.
Fisher can punch and I dont expect Allen to see past 1-2 rounds. He’s small and it’s 50-50 whether he’ll likely turn up in any semblance of shape.
Big weekend with BetBivol tomorrow then on the next two days a big back to back card in Japan featuring Nakatani and T.Inoue plus another smaller one featuring Casimero (wash watch).
Just watching the weigh ins. Should be a good card this tomorrow. Some intriguing fights aside from the main event.
Looking forward to it!
Looking forward to it!
Allen is also someone who rarely lets his hands go, especially these days. So it makes sense why he's being fed to a raw prospect. Eddie isn't ready to put Fisher in there with a dangerous puncher, so Allen kinda ticks the box of good name but low risk option.
Who’s taking it then. Was surprised to see Bivol as betting favourite, even though it’s quite tight
Bivols Mrs has been going in on him on social media, trying to give tips to Beterbiev on his injuries etc
Rooting for Beterbiev. The odds do probably make sense though - there's not that many scenarios in which you'd back the 39 year old puncher coming off an injury against the much younger, slick mover. There's some Youtube speculation that he hasn't been looking good in training too:
Hoping that Beterbiev bucks the trend and cautiously optimistic given his sheer quality and unreal strength and power. Stylistically, he's probably more familiar than most with Bivol's style from his amateur days, and as great as Bivol is defensively, he's maybe more confident with getting backed onto the ropes than he should be against Beterbiev.
Just saw on Bet365 that Artur is 7/1 to win by decision. Not the most likely outcome but I think it actually looks decent value - even if he's losing early a strong finish and a couple of 10-8 rounds seems a plausible route to winning on the cards.
With Beterbiev's injury I think it's natural to assume Bovol has an edge. I'd say, gun to my head, he takes a decision.
I actually took this the other day - mainly for the value. I opened the bet account to put Bivol on pts, but if Beterbiev can score a knockdowns and win a few of the rounds, it wouldn't surprise me if he got the decision.
People are underestimating his boxing ability - which whilst isn't on the level of Bivol's - he isn't just a puncher.
I was looking at skybets enhanced 4.5 for Beterbiev to win by knockout rounds 7-12.
We all assume Bivol will be fitter, but he’s only human and as he tires later on, it’ll only take one flush shot to land with Beterbiev’s power and he could be in serious trouble