The RedCafe Boxing Thread

[Bert_]

The Paul fight will just be a total circus to make Paul look good.

I really hope Mike isn't getting paid millions just to get beat.

It's an exibition fight and he'll be paid enough to let Paul look like he "can take on Tyson", ignoring he fact Tyson is more than twice his age and hasn't taken part in a proper boxing match for over 20 years. It will probably go to the judges and declare a draw after a few round of tapping each others faces.

This WWE style celebrity headline bouts needs to stop. Joshua just put Ngannou to sleep in a proper boxing match. At least he was a UFC Champion and a proven fighter. Imagine one of these celeb boxers like Jake Paul in the same situation. They'd be dead

 

[TheLiverBird]

An Elite Boxer turned up, took it serious

and put the hardest puncher in the world truly in his place in demolishing style.

Fury should have done that instead of messing around

Although it’s an MMA fighter and of course AJ should be winning, fair play too him nonetheless

He’s looking very focused again, we’ll know more when he fights Fury or Usyk

 

[G-manc]

I'm pretty sure if Fury beats Uysk there is no rematch (thanks to Fury and Warren doing anything they can to duck the fight) so he'll go straight to AJ. Although i suspect Fury will give Uysk a rematch if it means ducking Joshua again.

There is a rematch clause as Fury confirmed last night. That was at Usyk’s request and one of the reasons Usyk walked away from the fight the first time they tried to make it.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

An Elite Boxer turned up, took it serious

and put the hardest puncher in the world truly in his place in demolishing style.

Fury should have done that instead of messing around

Although it’s an MMA fighter and of course AJ should be winning, fair play too him nonetheless

He’s looking very focused again, we’ll know more when he fights Fury or Usyk

Yup. Shows what a nonsense it was when all the MMA fans got giddy about Ngannou lasting the pace against a barely even half arsed Tyson Fury.

 

[TwoSheds]

Yup. Shows what a nonsense it was when all the MMA fans got giddy about Ngannou lasting the pace against a barely even half arsed Tyson Fury.

Or is Tyson Fury just not that great? Be interesting to find out if he fights Usyk and AJ.

 

[Walter Sobchak]

That switch to southpaw at end of rd1 was the definition of hubris.

Ref should've stopped after KD in the second, Frank just stood up and left his chin out for the KO.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Or is Tyson Fury just not that great? Be interesting to find out if he fights Usyk and AJ.

He’s clearly in a different league to any MMA fighter. But he’s also exactly the sort of person who might half arse his training camp before an exhibition fight. Which is, I’m sure, how he perceived that match-up.

 

[TwoSheds]

He’s clearly in a different league to any MMA fighter. But he’s also exactly the sort of person who might half arse his training camp before an exhibition fight. Which is, I’m sure, how he perceived that match-up.

If you're genuinely the best in the world and an all time great and all that stuff, should you be losing to someone who isn't a boxer just because you half arsed a training camp? And in my view he absolutely lost to Ngannou.

That tale doesn't make sense to me. Either Ngannou is better than people give him credit for and AJ's performance yesterday was exceptional, or he's not that good, and Tyson Fury isn't either. Truth probably somewhere in between.

I think switching to southpaw was a god awful plan yesterday from Ngannou and I don't think he'd do it next time if they ran the fight again. He still would have lost but not quite as spectacularly.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

If you're genuinely the best in the world and an all time great and all that stuff, should you be losing to someone who isn't a boxer just because you half arsed a training camp? And in my view he absolutely lost to Ngannou.

That tale doesn't make sense to me. Either Ngannou is better than people give him credit for and AJ's performance yesterday was exceptional, or he's not that good, and Tyson Fury isn't either. Truth probably somewhere in between.

I think switching to southpaw was a god awful plan yesterday from Ngannou and I don't think he'd do it next time if they ran the fight again. He still would have lost but not quite as spectacularly.

Or Ngannou is not that good but not terrible and Fury didn’t take him seriously enough. Which is exactly how it looked during the fight and exactly what you’d expect from a character like Fury.

 

[the_cliff]

He's 19 and fought no-one of note yet. Not that I'd have expected him to and that age/lack of experience. He's likely 3/4 years away from being able to fight the elite of the division, he's done really well in his outings so far and showed ridiculous power but you have to consider the level of opposition. He's nowhere near ready to fight the likes of AJ.

He should build up a fight against Jared Anderson if he keeps winning.

I'm sure I heard somewhere that he's going for the Tyson record (youngest heavyweight champ in history), if he is, he'll have to start fighting the top guys soon.

 

[Fortitude]

That switch to southpaw at end of rd1 was the definition of hubris.

Ref should've stopped after KD in the second, Frank just stood up and left his chin out for the KO.

Really? Hubris? More like someone extremely wet behind the ears not sure what to do because he was getting hurt badly in plan A.

N'Gannou has never been in that kind of deep water in his entire fighting career and it's not hard to imagine he was both startled from being down and close to out as well as what became very unfamiliar water very quickly.

The thought process is more likely to be: shit! Let me try this instead, more than anything like hubris.

 

[Walter Sobchak]

He switched to southpaw about 40 seconds before he was first knocked down.

 

[Fortitude]

He switched to southpaw about 40 seconds before he was first knocked down.

Because? He was getting lit up.

 

[Dan_F]

Who cares if Tyson trained or not for the fight, that’s on him. Bottom line is he got knocked down and almost lost to someone in their first professional boxing match. It’s another blot on his record. At this point he needs to win the Uysk fight to even be any where near the discussion of top 10 heavyweights, let alone amongst the best.

 

[pocco]

Hope it is as Fury predicts, 2 fights vs Usyk, 2 fights vs AJ. Then we can draw a big fat line under this era.

Yeah hopefully. Though as a big Fury fan that has been critical of AJ, last night showed Fury up big time. His performance against Ngannou was shockingly bad by his standards, AJ found the openings from the get go which Fury couldn't find.

Now there's always been a thing with Fury where he just doesn't look good against lesser fighters for whatever reason, but will step it up on the big nights. Hopefully that's what we saw against Ngannou. But somebody was telling me that some stats guys had crunched the numbers of Furys fights and his output in terms of even feints, movement etc was very low against Ngannou. Which makes me wonder if either age or lifestyle has caught up with him.

If that's the case then he's going to struggle against Usyk. I really hope he doesn't, and I hope we see the best Fury against the best AJ in 18 months time. I'm still very confident Fury at his best beats them both, but there's a lot of question marks around it right now and I'd have no appetite to see Fury carry on if he looks just as bad against Usyk.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Or is Tyson Fury just not that great? Be interesting to find out if he fights Usyk and AJ.

You have to question what’s gone on behind the scenes in my opinion. Ngannou left the ufc for money, he’s just secured a double header that’s given him 6x his career earning for fury and probably the same for Joshua.

 

[Glorio]

There is a rematch clause as Fury confirmed last night. That was at Usyk’s request and one of the reasons Usyk walked away from the fight the first time they tried to make it.

I wouldn't believe anything Fury says.

 

[youngrell]

Devastating finish from Joshua, fair play. Ref was in a tough spot, there would likely be uproar if he’d stopped it prior to the KO but at the same time Ngannou was very stationery.

Joshua is such a weirdo isn’t he? His post fight interviews are bizarre.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

If AJ gets through Ngannou I hope he comes up against Zhang because he'll get destroyed.

clueless

 

[Jim Beam]

So, Fury picked up $50 million for feck all training and preparing for the fight which earned him such amount. Peak McGregor stuff that.

Happy AJ dismantled him for the sake of boxing. Gulf that's been seen should be the actual one when you meet a top heavyweight.

 

[Plastic Evra]

On Netflix too. How is that going to work live?

I'm sure Netflix can have a live broadcast stream that will be up on the main page (with a minute delay or something) that will later stay and work like any other program they feature once the event ended.

I don't know they ever did and there's specific challenges (load management and the like) but they have the money to hire the expertise.

 

[G-manc]

I wouldn't believe anything Fury says.

He didn’t say that last night but it’s well documented.

To be fair, it’s a standard stip for any champion - why would it not be?

Now Eddie Hearn and Frank Warren are working together, it should be easy to sort now anyway.

Whoever wins between Fury & Usyk will have to drop the IBF strap for the rematch anyway; so in theory, Joshua could fight Hrgovic on the undercard of the Fury-Usyk rematch then face the winner. If Joshua wanted less risk, he could go Whyte or possibly Parker.

Joshua was impressive last night but I don’t think it’s any secret he carries more single shot power than Fury. It doesn’t mean Tyson can’t win. He’s flawed as a character and has had flat performances leading into good ones before so people shouldn’t write him off, especially now he’s working with Greg Marriott again on the S&C side of things.

People are so fickle; they were calling for AJ to quit after the Usyk losses and he was laboured against Franklin and, to a lesser extent, Helenius a couple of fights ago. Now people are writing off Fury over his Ngannou performance. I actually think it might have been good for him and has given him a wake up call but we shall see.

 

[Lay]

Who cares if Tyson trained or not for the fight, that’s on him. Bottom line is he got knocked down and almost lost to someone in their first professional boxing match. It’s another blot on his record. At this point he needs to win the Uysk fight to even be any where near the discussion of top 10 heavyweights, let alone amongst the best.

Indeed. Doesn't matter if he was half assed or not, he looked like shit against an MMA guy and was knocked down.

 

[Jim Beam]

Hope it is as Fury predicts, 2 fights vs Usyk, 2 fights vs AJ. Then we can draw a big fat line under this era.

Fury already did that tbf

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Who cares if Tyson trained or not for the fight, that’s on him. Bottom line is he got knocked down and almost lost to someone in their first professional boxing match. It’s another blot on his record. At this point he needs to win the Uysk fight to even be any where near the discussion of top 10 heavyweights, let alone amongst the best.

Nobody cares. I don’t think even Tyson Fury cares. He got paid for that farce regardless and would see it as a complete irrelevance in his legacy as a fighter. It’s just worth noting in the context of this thread, which was full of UFC fans wildly overrating Ngannou afterwards.

 

[Fortitude]

So, Fury picked up $50 million for feck all training and preparing for the fight which earned him such amount. Peak McGregor stuff that.

Happy AJ dismantled him for the sake of boxing. Gulf that's been seen should be the actual one when you meet a top heavyweight.

Yeah boxing needed this for its own sake. It's a real shame for Francis and you can tell there was a real point of realisation for him in the post-fight conference (although I have no idea how they OK someone who got so badly knocked out to conduct interviews within the hour ).

Joshua told him to not give up, but that's exactly how the gulf is supposed to look.

Francis will have lost his mystique now, so those crazy pay days are over unless he takes the arduous journey to becoming a rounded pro and earns big money off the merit of that.

The biggest loser in all this is Fury, however, he's really being looked down on since that last display and he has to reestablish dominance, if he has it.

I really think he's slowing a bit and losing some of his reflexive counters, but that remains to be seen especially so since he looks the fittest and leanest of his career in preparation for this upcoming fight.

 

[Gringo]

Can't say Fury is a loser until after he fights Usyk

 

[the_cliff]

Nobody cares. I don’t think even Tyson Fury cares. He got paid for that farce regardless and would see it as a complete irrelevance in his legacy as a fighter. It’s just worth noting in the context of this thread, which was full of UFC fans wildly overrating Ngannou afterwards.

This. In regards to Fury's boxing legacy it's completely irrelevant, especially if he goes on to beat Usyk. Fury is a special type of boxer, he can look completely out of form and out of sync against the bums of the heavyweight division and then look like prime Muhammad Ali in his next fight. We'll just have to wait and see what happens with Usyk.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

I'm sure Netflix can have a live broadcast stream that will be up on the main page (with a minute delay or something) that will later stay and work like any other program they feature once the event ended.

I don't know they ever did and there's specific challenges (load management and the like) but they have the money to hire the expertise.

Right, yeah makes sense.

 

[Dan_F]

Nobody cares. I don’t think even Tyson Fury cares. He got paid for that farce regardless and would see it as a complete irrelevance in his legacy as a fighter. It’s just worth noting in the context of this thread, which was full of UFC fans wildly overrating Ngannou afterwards.

Well, people do care, because it’s used as an excuse for why he performed so poorly. If you think it’s an irrelevance in his legacy that’s your opinion, I don’t think it reflects well at all.

 

[DixieDean]

My predictions are normally crap, so I will gloat with this one.

Correct. And my early prediction is Joshua runs through him in less than 3 rounds. Full credit to Francis, but Fury is Fury and full of up and down performances. AJ will take this fight seriously after what Francies did in the Fury fight.

The Fury happened because Fury underestimated Francis and ,more to the point, has always been a up and down fighter in terms of performances.

Even though I've long said Fury is over rated I'm still on the fence about him vs Usyk. One thing is for sure. Joshua will be praying for a Fury win.

And if the rematch clause is true than I don't know what fight Joshua takes in the meantime.

 

[Jim Beam]

Yeah boxing needed this for its own sake. It's a real shame for Francis and you can tell there was a real point of realisation for him in the post-fight conference (although I have no idea how they OK someone who got so badly knocked out to conduct interviews within the hour ).

Joshua told him to not give up, but that's exactly how the gulf is supposed to look.

Francis will have lost his mystique now, so those crazy pay days are over unless he takes the arduous journey to becoming a rounded pro and earns big money off the merit of that.

The biggest loser in all this is Fury, however, he's really being looked down on since that last display and he has to reestablish dominance, if he has it.

I really think he's slowing a bit and losing some of his reflexive counters, but that remains to be seen especially so since he looks the fittest and leanest of his career in preparation for this upcoming fight.

Agree fully that purely from a sporting perspective it reflects badly on Fury (along with your comment about putting someone to interview after being so badly knocked out), but a cynic part of me can't help not to almost admire a man picking up $50 million while obviously doing feck all to earn it purely based on people idiocy to have so much interest in these events which are pretty much a farce. I did watch Fury against Ngannou based on my curiosity, so am obviously part of the problem as well, but last night I really thought the circus is not worth it. Make no mistake, Conor did the same thing against Floyd only Floyd decided to dance along with the scenario and make it somewhat interesting (as much as he could).

Which is another reason for hats off to AJ as well. Zero interest in anything similiar and just 100% in it making the fight what should be in reality. I really hope these kind of events start to feck off/fade away along with Jake Paul's of this world.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

I wonder if someone will have to die before they stop these freakshow/crossover fights.

Anyone who had anything to do with that last night should feel embarrassed and thank their lucky stars that Ngannou wasn't seriously hurt or worse.

 

[DannyCAFC]

I'm sure I heard somewhere that he's going for the Tyson record (youngest heavyweight champ in history), if he is, he'll have to start fighting the top guys soon.

I mean there's zero chance of that happening, he'd have to win a belt in the next 12 months.

Why rush also, the kid had like 25 amateur fights.

 

[Plastic Evra]

I wonder if someone will have to die before they stop these freakshow/crossover fights.

Anyone who had anything to do with that last night should feel embarrassed and thank their lucky stars that Ngannou wasn't seriously hurt or worse.

Give or take three actual pro boxers die every year or so (recently that Japanese boxer) and it barely registers.

I wonder if some of the YouTubers will get neurological damage two decades from now.

 

[Dan_F]

Give or take three actual pro boxers die every year or so (recently that Japanese boxer) and it barely registers.

I wonder if some of the YouTubers will get neurological damage two decades from now.

Probably but I’m not sure it’ll be from the punches. I would be amazed if there wasn’t a lot of drugs (performance enhancing and otherwise) involved.

 

[T00lsh3d]

Give or take three actual pro boxers die every year or so (recently that Japanese boxer) and it barely registers.

I wonder if some of the YouTubers will get neurological damage two decades from now.

Wouldn’t notice anyway

I think in reality the YouTuber vs YouTuber fights are pretty safe. The aren’t reaching absolute peak exhaustion in fights then taking a shattering blow to the head, it’s all that much softer as they’re not pros

 

[Plastic Evra]

Wouldn’t notice anyway

I think in reality the YouTuber vs YouTuber fights are pretty safe. The aren’t reaching absolute peak exhaustion in fights then taking a shattering blow to the head, it’s all that much softer as they’re not pros

And they don't do the same amount of sparring.

But the poster above you made a good point it's probably ridiculously lax with PED usage.

All that said, that Ngannou KO is the most brutal one in a while, just the man being ragdolled. Really goes to show a boxing novice with no adequate boxing defense shouldn't get in the ring. But even if something tragic happened, I think that Ngannou being a prize fighter would have muted the controversy somewhat.

 

[lsd]

Well, people do care, because it’s used as an excuse for why he performed so poorly. If you think it’s an irrelevance in his legacy that’s your opinion, I don’t think it reflects well at all.

It was an exhibition bout which he treated as such. He looked terrible as a result but in terms of his overall career it's completely irrelevant

 

[Rams]

I mean there's zero chance of that happening, he'd have to win a belt in the next 12 months.

Why rush also, the kid had like 25 amateur fights.

Because he’ll already beat anyone in the division. Watch him box. His boxing intelligence is that of a seasoned pro and better. It just comes naturally to him. The way he sets up traps. His defensive intelligence as well. The speed & accuracy of punching is that of a middleweight or lower. And he packs a punch. His footwork is 2nd to none. He’s easily the best heavyweight I’ve seen since a young Mike Tyson. And the rumors are he’s already knocking out the best British heavyweight boxers in sparring. He’s definitely the real deal is Itauma, already. The problem he’ll have is finding opponents willing to fight him.