How does a guy that gets knocked down win? There’s a lot of fixing going on in boxing. It’s because they don’t want it to become a mockery. That’s why they can never give an MMA fighter a win against a pro boxer. Or a YouTuber a win against a pro boxer.
The RedCafe Boxing Thread
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Biggest slight on Fury is that he pretty much couldn't hurt Francis with any of his punches and after he landed on his ass he didn't want any of the close exchanges (almost avoiding them) relying on his jab and reach to bail him out. A jab that was so weak that Francis looked totally unbothered comfortably going all 10 rounds when one of the biggest concerns prior to this fight was his stamina. If anyone was relieved it ended it was Fury. Francis also looked more composed in the ring and imo should have won the fight.
Don't know, maybe embarrassing is a bit too strong after you just got richer for 50 million with so little to do, but purely looking at it from sport perspective it's hard to find a better word.
Don't know, maybe embarrassing is a bit too strong after you just got richer for 50 million with so little to do, but purely looking at it from sport perspective it's hard to find a better word.
Huge misconception that more punches landed = win round. This isn’t amateur boxing.
Neatly sums up the typical casual view of boxing
True but also clear fury was managing out the fight after round 5 was ngannou was too exhausted to realistically win on the card. If fury felt it was close or had something to prove or if it wasn't an exhibition in the land of the sand he would have fought differently. Might not have been different outcome but not much chance fury hurts ngannou at 30pc
It because of the rules. It's a different sport to MMA. A knock-down isn't a death sentence in boxing.
Fury was knocked down against Wilder but got back up and was clearly the better fighter throughout the fight. You can get hit with a shot out of the blue but in boxing that doesn't mean you have to lose the fight.
Fury underestimated Francis.
He thought it would be a pretty easy fight. I certainly thought it. Understandably apprehensive after getting put on his arse.
Delighted for Francis. Unimaginable money. One of the good guys.
He thought it would be a pretty easy fight. I certainly thought it. Understandably apprehensive after getting put on his arse.
Delighted for Francis. Unimaginable money. One of the good guys.
I guess if you want to really try and dig any positives in Fury performance last night then him managing out the fight would be the only one (have something to prove/this being an exhibition just goes in excuse territory). But still, the very fact that he had to rely on such tactic is a bad look and purely looking at the punches landed by each round it was still so damn close with some of the rounds that could easily go either way (as seen even with the judges).
Don't know, baffled that after a knock down and aside from the occasional jab he managed to create almost zero openings with his actual movement and boxing.
Amazing Job from Francis despite loss. He shows it.
N'Gannou caught a second wind after a breather in the 6th and 7th and then saw out the fight comfortably, winning rd 8 with ease. Rd 9 and 10, Fury was extremely tentative at a time he would normally look to finish strong.
Yeah, if nothing he looked like he could have been in the ring for few more rounds. Which is shocking in itself.
I wouldn’t say fury was the better fighter though. He looked knackered.
He isn't and never will be the better fighter, boxer yes.
I was answering a general question about how someone who's knocked down can win. It happens all the time in boxing. If the question wasn't meant that way then fair enough.
I had Francis winning but it wasn't a robbery for Fury to win.
Tyson was generally a little more active and accurate and that is borne out by the stats.
On the other hand Francis was more aggressive and he threw more hurtful punches than Fury and scored a knockdown.
It comes down to what you reward and it is fair enough either way.
Tyson was generally a little more active and accurate and that is borne out by the stats.
On the other hand Francis was more aggressive and he threw more hurtful punches than Fury and scored a knockdown.
It comes down to what you reward and it is fair enough either way.
We’ve already seen that at heavyweight. James Toney getting strangled in seconds was hilarious to watch. Any boxer is getting put on their ass by someone who’s been training MMA for years.
It wasn’t just Fury. Warren was backpedalling because he could clearly see how much damage was on Fury’s face, but Usyk still went in with his scripted lines announcing the date.
He'd give AJ a fight. AJ almost looks scared to fight these days, completely gun shy. Wilder would just be very unorthodox with his punch selection, not sure how that would go. Hard to judge Ngannou because Fury was so far below his usual level last night.
Who do you think he should have fought? AJ wouldn't give him a fight pre Fury vs Wlad. Everyone wanted AJ vs Wilder, but Fury got there first, destroyed him and then nobody wanted that for AJ and said Wilder is shit. In the meantime Fury is in the ascension whilst AJ is making a meal out of every fight and losing to B level fighters. So there was no appetite for Fury vs AJ.
Usyk is the only one really and I do think it will happen. Why it's not happened so far is open to interpretation. You possibly can't talk about Fury at HoF level yet, but that's mainly because the division is so shit. When you have numptys blowing smoke up the arse of average boxers like AJ that just says it all. He was the pinnacle of HW for much of the last 10 years and he's garbage.
Yeah it was a close fight and could have gone either way. Although the onus is always on the challenger to take it out of the judge’s hands, as judges seems to always favour the champion in close fights.
Whatever, the absolute hysteria on here (and on social media) from MMA fans about how it was an outrageous decision and a definite fix is and was ridiculous.
i agree it’s a shit division, and he’s not fought anyone who’s anyone in it. he’s a pussy.
Agreed. I think he knew he would win because these people and their corners have vast experience. He expended the minimum to do so in a nothing fake Saudi money right. Nobody ever really comes out looking good in these silly exhibitions.
Which top class HW has this “pussy” been running scared from?
He certainly had flurries in the later rounds. Personally think it was much more that fury just relaxed once ngannou looked shot. His corner told him to manage it, he admitted it after the fight. It was a nothing fight, he can't risk interrupting his prep for the real fight in a few weeks, but the Saudis paid the money so like everyone in the world they turn up and go through the motions.
Are you sure you're not confusing regular rimaldo posts with the rare serious ones?
Pulev and Povetkin are obvious ones. Outside of Wilder/Wlad, who are the top five opponents that Fury has faced? The guy is fighting Derek Chisora in 2022
Compare his top five opponents to Joshua’s and it’s fairly obvious why people had Joshua at the pinnacle of HW boxing…he was fighting the best around. There’s a repeated pattern of Fury swerving tough fights and that’s why he is taking most of the flack for all the missed fights.
I disagree that HW is a shit division. The talent pool is much better than the 2000s-early 2010s. There's plenty of talented fighters, some good fights are getting made but the division is being held up by Fury's antics and continuous rematch clauses from AJ.
Listen credit to Francis - performed much better and LOOKED much better than most including people including I thought he would.
But the people crying robbery... please post your round-by-round scorecards because I'd love to know exactly what rounds people gave him.
I thought it was close but still gave Fury the nod - at best it was 95-94 Ngannou and that is giving him all the close rounds. By no means was this a robbery, albeit still extremely surprising that it was so competitive.
But the people crying robbery... please post your round-by-round scorecards because I'd love to know exactly what rounds people gave him.
I thought it was close but still gave Fury the nod - at best it was 95-94 Ngannou and that is giving him all the close rounds. By no means was this a robbery, albeit still extremely surprising that it was so competitive.
I guess the problem isn't so much the judges.... it's that they actively encouraged, albeit not necassarily forced, to decide a winner in a round, even when feck all happens. This is where the mindset of favouring someone comes in. 10-10 rounds should be way more common than they are and I had 3 rounds that I'd happily score 10-10 last night. That's why I give it to Ngannou, by 2, thanks to his knockdown.
He's fought Wlad and Wilder, soon I think he'll add Usyk to that list. Who else is there? Genuine question. Nobody is interested in seeing him fight AJ.
Pulev and Povetkin are obvious ones. Outside of Wilder/Wlad, who are the top five opponents that Fury has faced? The guy is fighting Derek Chisora in 2022
Compare his top five opponents to Joshua’s and it’s fairly obvious why people had Joshua at the pinnacle of HW boxing…he was fighting the best around. There’s a repeated pattern of Fury swerving tough fights and that’s why he is taking most of the flack for all the missed fights.
Why didn't AJ fight Wilder? Fury did, 3 times in fact. That was the fight everybody wanted for AJ. Its 2023 and he's fighting Helenius and Jermaine Franklin
AJ actually stopped being the pinnacle of boxing when he fought half decent fighters and the casuals realised he's shit. They should have realised that when he was losing to B level fighters like Ruiz, and struggling with the likes of Takam and Povetkin. I find it hard to believe Fury ducks certain fighters when he was the first of these lot to take on Wlad and beat him, which nobody believed he could do. Then he faced Wilder who nobody decent would touch as they wanted to protect their 0.The names on AJs resume aren't exactly HoF level either and that's because most fighters in the division are useless. Pulev isn't a top level fighter or anywhere near it. Povetkin is OK but not great.
The wilder fight has been tough to make. I'm not sure who is to blame. And without being there it's impossible to know. It looks like it's signed for december though. Unless one of them now want have a easy payday against FrancisWhy didn't AJ fight Wilder? Fury did, 3 times in fact. That was the fight everybody wanted for AJ. Its 2023 and he's fighting Helenius and Jermaine Franklin
The names on AJs resume aren't exactly HoF level either and that's because most fighters in the division are useless. Pulev isn't a top level fighter or anywhere near it. Povetkin is OK but not great.
The reason I respect AJ is that, outside of the wilder question mark, he's always tried to fight the best imo. His record says as much. Unlike someone I can think of.
What? The AJ would still be huge. Fury's resume is a joke. Two good fighters and he's 35. He's still not fought Usyk and I'm waiting for his excuse to drop out of it.
Of course he wouldn’t duck Wlad, he was barely known outside the UK before that. You can’t really duck from a position of weakness. From what I can remember with AJ/Wilder, there were lots of negotiations and you’ll have to make your mind up about who you believe, but it ended with Povetkin being the mandatory and AJ having to do it.Why didn't AJ fight Wilder? Fury did, 3 times in fact. That was the fight everybody wanted for AJ. Its 2023 and he's fighting Helenius and Jermaine Franklin
The names on AJs resume aren't exactly HoF level either and that's because most fighters in the division are useless. Pulev isn't a top level fighter or anywhere near it. Povetkin is OK but not great.
The likes of Pulev and Povetkin while not HoF level, are far better than whoever Fury has fought outside of Wlad/Wilder. You can’t be denying that? Take those two names out and you’re left with scraps on Fury’s record.
Parker/Povetkin vs Sefri/Pianeta in 2018.
Ruiz/Pulev vs Schwarz/Wallin in 2019.
I’m not talking about who AJ is fighting now, that all changed after the losses - although he still took two fights against Usyk. This discussion isn’t about who is better out of Fury and AJ. Fury is World Champion and should be fighting bigger names than AJ. Chisora/Whyte/Ngannou as your last three opponents is embarrassing as reigning world champion.
I think it's hilarious you're always bigging up Joshua and ranting on about how Fury is a bum.
Lot of hand wringing over "The State of Boxing™" but it might actually be good for boxing to see more popular MMA fighters jump in and bring new eyes on the Sweet Science.
I don't think most people are really satisfied with the state of the HW division anyway ? Let fresh blood in.
I don't think most people are really satisfied with the state of the HW division anyway ? Let fresh blood in.
I know you're joking, but to be clear, Fury is not a bum! He's really talented. Just overrated.I think it's hilarious you're always bigging up Joshua and ranting on about how Fury is a bum.
So Tyson outlanded Francis in 6 rounds and one round saw 5 shots landed each where Fury was more accurate. Fury outlanded him by 14-6 in the last 2 rounds as well.
Interesting as I was blind when I stated Tyson won 7 rounds last night and was told there was no clear winner in rounds 9 and 10 and they were coin flips.
Interesting as I was blind when I stated Tyson won 7 rounds last night and was told there was no clear winner in rounds 9 and 10 and they were coin flips.
And now Usyk insists the contract says December 23 for their fight, as just after the Ngannou fight there were suddenly voices to suggest postponing that fight by a month...
Scheduling Fury with just two months apart between Ngannou and Usyk seems somewhat risky in hindsight.
Scheduling Fury with just two months apart between Ngannou and Usyk seems somewhat risky in hindsight.