Agreed
Different fighter = different fight
How AJ fought tonight has zero baring on how he will fight against Wilder if/when it happens
AJ had time to measure up Povetkin tonight, and smashed his block off once measured, very simple
The RedCafe Boxing Thread
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Agreed
Different fighter = different fight
How AJ fought tonight has zero baring on how he will fight against Wilder if/when it happens
AJ had time to measure up Povetkin tonight, and smashed his block off once measured, very simple
I had it 4-2 as well
@The Bloody-Nine I should have been clearer. I think AJ is on course to prove himself to be the best of his era but I feel that his era is so weak that doing that won't put him on a Lewis type level. He has the chance if he does to Wilder and Fury what he done tonight. In my mind someone like Mayweather is World Class and AJ in fighting terms hasn't shown the level to be put in that type of conversation so far. I like the guy though, just giving my 2 cents on the state of the division nowadays.
How are those scorecards so far wrong.
Agree, that was clear bias. Povetkin was winning...
Was someone in Povetkin's corner trying to hold him down after the knock down?
If Joshua’s the best heavyweight in the world, then he’s world class by definition. Do people not know what world class means?
Oh man, would love to see a peak Muhammad Ali against AJ.
Two years ago he was. AJ's best win came against a 40 year old Wlad in his retirement fight, and he almost lost that fight too
It isn't as if one guy has only beaten tomato cans and the other has beaten prime Norton, Mercer and Bowe...
AJ has holes in his defence which could cost him greatly against Wilder. He's better and should be favoured, but it's far from a straight forward fight. Wilder has the kind of hand speed, reach and power to give him a chance against anyone
Yes.
Any from that era, Foreman v AJ would be an amazing fight also.
Ortiz was never ranked by anyone as the best in the division. Stop this shit.
Just watched it again from another angle. Couldn't work out why his head was suddenly through the ropes
'Currently'. As in currently there are no World Class fighters in the heavyweight division. Nothing to do with past eras.
The ideal is Joshua unifying the division, Usyk getting warmed up at heavyweight and then having those two face off undefeated. Usyk could well go down as one of the GOAT.
Fury will beat Wilder.
If you’re the best in the world, you are world class. It’s not difficult.
Agreed. Wilder's style and body size would make for an awkward matchup for AJ. Would be a great fight.
HOW CAN THERE NOT BE A WORLD CLASS FIGHTER IF ALL THE FIGHTERS IN THE WORLD ARE CURRENTLY FIGHTING?!?!?!
You don't know what world class means.
I wouldn't doubt it for a second. I doubted Fury against Vlad and now I accept he can do that to anyone when he's in the mood.Criticising Joshua for fighting nobodies, and then having Ortiz as the best in his division? Same Ortiz whose 75%+ of his opponents don't even have a Wikipedia page?
Joshua has so far defeated Klitschko, Povetkin, Parker and Whyte. The first two are clearly better than Ortiz and the last two comparable to him. He clearly has a much better CV than Wilder has.
They were terrible tactics against the smaller fighter and led to Joshua being hit so frequently throughout the contest by Povetkin’s favoured shots. Quite simple really. As an example of the right tactics, watch how Wlad dealt with him.
Wilder would have capitalised on those opportunities in my view in clinical fashion and early too. Clearly not in yours though. Fair enough. I don’t disagree with your view on Wilder as a fighter either btw - Joshua has far more in his locker but being a better boxer often doesn’t mean they win the fight. Especially if tonight’s tactics were to be repeated.
Waiting for someone to suggest Trevor Bryan as being the current best.
Imagine the shitstorm that would ensue if this was decided by the refs. Good thing it ended unequivocally.
If it was close it would've obviously gone to Joshua. Home court advantage and all that.
Fine then he's World Class but nowhere near the level of previous Heavyweights. I concede. My criteria for it was wrong. Kind of like Rooney is better remembered if his career hadn't have coincided with the other 2, or if a nuclear bomb destroys everywhere but Ireland and suddenly Shane Long is World Class. I like AJ but seriously some of you are obviously missing the point almost to the point of Irish fans about Conor.
I wasn't criticizing, rather pointing out AJ's resume isn't a murderer's row of greats either
They'll fight next year and we'll see what happens. AJ will need to be sharper from the first gong and work on his defence. If he manages to stay away from the overhand right he should win. Tonight he let a 39 old Povetkin light him up a few times. Can't get away with that against Wilder
Povetkin is a much better boxer than Wilder.
He’s only 20-odd fights into his career and has beaten everybody he could, including the best of the past 15 years and an all-time great. Give him a chance. He could potentially have Wilder, Fury, Whyte and Usyk in the next two years. We’ll review then.
He's also considerably slower, doesn't hit as hard nor has his reach
High quality tactical fight, between two world class Olympic heavy weight champions. That finish from Joshua was brutal, the right which started it off was a thing of beauty. At the end of the day AJ showed patience & maturity, he waited for his chance to over power Povetkin.
He also doesn't have terrible technique, a horrendous chin and a record that's embarrassing.
Anyone got the scorecards?
Agree completely with what you've said. Just because you're the best of a shit bunch of heavyweights doesn't automatically make you world class. I like AJ, he's a decent fighter but nobody seems to call it like it is with him and the hype around him is unreal. He's skills are average at best, poor head movement and barely throws any feints, he's getting by mainly because of his physical attributes. He has improved from earlier on in his career which he deserves credit for, but the division is really poor. He almost lost to a 40 year old Klitschko, seriously hurt by Whyte and Povetkin for me gave him a serious test. None of these guys at those stages of their careers were world class heavyweights, especially if youre comparing them to the names you guys are throwing out.
Someone mentioned above that they would've loved to see Ali/Forman against Joshua, he would've got absolutely murdered by any of the top 5/6 heavyweights of that era.
Technique means jack once he lands the right hand. And as poor as his technique, he throws from weird angles and his speed and reach give him a chance to land it on anybody. And AJ's defence is poor.
I still don't get what Ortiz has done to be considered to be ''one of the best'' in the division by so many fans. He hasn't won anything as an amateur or as a pro, yet some people rank him in the top 3-4. Don't get me wrong, he is a very skilled boxer that can does have good power, but he hasn't beaten anyone worth mentioning.
I scored the fight 4-2 to AJ or would have been happy to give it 3-3 going into the 7th round. Still don't know what AJ was doing lowering the left hand mid way through that fight, was fearing the worst with Povektin's dangerous right hook.
I scored the fight 4-2 to AJ or would have been happy to give it 3-3 going into the 7th round. Still don't know what AJ was doing lowering the left hand mid way through that fight, was fearing the worst with Povektin's dangerous right hook.
He is/was a genuinely skilled boxer with good power in a barren division where beyond Joshua and Wilder, Wlad or Vitali could come back tomorrow and beat anybody with one hand tied behind the back
Lennox Lewis would be the 3rd or 4th best in the division right now. It's a weak division, that's why there's so much hope on AJ. He's about the only one who looks like he might be legit, and is young enough to get considerably better yet
Pov was landing the cleaner head shots, although still very few, but AJ was landing constant body shots. Those count to the judges right?
Povetkin visibly tired and was trying to win with single big shots, which became a bit predictable. Earlier on he was putting punches together and swarming him a lot more, which brought results. If Povetkin was also 28, I reckon he could have beat AJ. At 39 he couldn't keep up the tempo.
These last few fights just make me think even more that AJ is very beatable. The only question is whether there's anyone with the quality, outside of Fury who I think schools him, or Wilder who could spark him if he lands.