no worries.Sorry mateFor some reason I was thinking of Chris Eubank JR
The RedCafe Boxing Thread
- Thread starter CLK_FPC
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I hope Kell bloody knows what he's doing. Tips off Martin Murray in sparring can only take you so far... He ultimately took a prolonged beating and hasn't been the same since. By trying to match Khan's macho matchmaking spirit and bravado he could be playing into Amir's hands when they inevitably fight if GGG changes Brook's resistance for good.
Hearn's played a blinder tbh. Eubank and Vargas were both fecking around so he told them both to feck off, and matched the other two guys.
Brook is in trouble here. Surely there has to be some sort of weight stip.
Pretty sure it's at 160.
Brook won't mind. He'll be making ~4 times his highest previous payday.
Really?
My interpretation is that Eubank was just hyping it indirectly and as he's Matchroom again, part of the act to increase the drama of the reveal. Without Eubank, the narrative would be open to Brook copying Khan - it still is, but less so. It all works as a recon mission for Eubank Jr too. Vargas was just running his mouth chasing a shot like anyone would.
Hearn has done well building the surprise element and the whole fight is a shock - given Brook's protection levels previously - so full credit there but only time will tell if it was a good fight to matchmake.
Hearn's done well cause it looks like both fights (GGG-Eubank, Brook-Vargas) were falling through. But as he was trying to make both fights at the same time, he was able to make a big fight with guys from both of the original fights.
No way were the Eubanks hyping it indirectly, they'd never do that - Sr's ego is too big. They wanted crazy money and terms for the GGG fight, terms that Sky/Hearn would never offer. Wouldn't be surprised if the Eubanks leave Matchroom again.
Vargas thought he could demand more money because Brook had no other options to make a big fight. Unfortunately for Vargas, a certain GGG became available at the last second.
Hearn manufactured a fight despite both of the original fights falling through - a really good Plan B.
Brook is going to get battered.
Also, the fight had been proposed to both guys before and both seemed up for it.
As for the fight itself, I wouldn't be surprised if Brook was able to take GGG some rounds. Even though he's a welterweight, he's huge at the weight and is more like the size of a junior middleweight. Also a very good boxer. I say GGG stops him between rounds 6-9. Let's see if Brook can carry his power up, cause if he can't, he's in big trouble.
As for the fight itself, I wouldn't be surprised if Brook was able to take GGG some rounds. Even though he's a welterweight, he's huge at the weight and is more like the size of a junior middleweight. Also a very good boxer. I say GGG stops him between rounds 6-9. Let's see if Brook can carry his power up, cause if he can't, he's in big trouble.
Erm....yeah. Just what a waste. This isn't exactly a huge pay like Khan with Canelo either since GGG isn't that big. Just a silly move.
This could have been on the cards before Eubank rejoined. He could have known all about it and decided it's better to be in a stable where he can gas all he wants about being next in line, gets as close as he can to a recon/scouting mission from a stable mate fighting GGG and work with a promoter that has already successfully negotiated a fight with GGG.
All the while, knowing if it goes pair shaped for Brook, he's in the pocket ready for the next fight and if it goes well for Brook, he's in the best place for a shot at the new MW champ (rematch clauses aside) by being in the same promotional team.
I simply think the opportunities on offer are too great for the Eubanks to ignore, especially as it allows them to posture all they want and make an angle that GGG ducked him, a true MW, for a WW in Brook. There are too many plus points to the whole arrangement for even them to let egos feck this up, again... Yet.
I honestly think Vargas was just a pawn in a grander scheme for bargaining and fall back.
Have to disagree. You only have to look at the fallout of the announcement. Everyone's calling Eubank a duck; fans and journalists. Anyway, Kugan did a quick interview with Eddie after the announcement...
Golovkin will keep it interesting like he usually does but his body shots are going to make kell brook regret this . Fair play to him for being brave though . There's a reason why people avoid this guy
Really not sure how I feel about this fight.
On one hand it's fantastic to get GGG over here and for Kell to fight a decent fighter for a change,it'll be explosive I'm sure.
On the other you cannot ignore the potential danger Kell faces, it's not just the jumping up he's also doing it against a monster.
I'm not actually sure this should be allowed to go ahead and I felt the same way with Kahn canelo.
There's also a wider problem for GGG and the opponents he is having to face, is this really the best they could find for him? if every middleweight is running scared maybe it's him that needs to step up in weight as for me there's still questions over his legacy as he's continuously mismatched
Having said all that I'm gonna try to get tickets tho!
On one hand it's fantastic to get GGG over here and for Kell to fight a decent fighter for a change,it'll be explosive I'm sure.
On the other you cannot ignore the potential danger Kell faces, it's not just the jumping up he's also doing it against a monster.
I'm not actually sure this should be allowed to go ahead and I felt the same way with Kahn canelo.
There's also a wider problem for GGG and the opponents he is having to face, is this really the best they could find for him? if every middleweight is running scared maybe it's him that needs to step up in weight as for me there's still questions over his legacy as he's continuously mismatched
Having said all that I'm gonna try to get tickets tho!
GGG will demolish Brook. Should be a great atmosphere though.
Yeah, I can't get over how silly this. Khan at least did it at pretty much superwelter limit and against Canelo, who's never actually fought at middleweight legit I think anyway.
Brooks just trying to outdo him it seems for legit no purpose at all.
Seriously what happened with Canelo and then Eubank fighting GGG?
Brooks just trying to outdo him it seems for legit no purpose at all.
Seriously what happened with Canelo and then Eubank fighting GGG?
Anyone think that Golovkin might do some business with Hearn in the UK for the next year?
Brook - Eubank - Groves (assuming he wins a SMW strap).
Brook - Eubank - Groves (assuming he wins a SMW strap).
Brook's gunna get battered, which is such a shame because I think he's potentially an exceptional champion. Seems daft that he's faught noone then all of a sudden fights probably the best pound for pound fighter around.
Brook should have established himself as a champion first. Gunna be a pretty ugly KO most likely because he hasn't got the power to stop GGG which means he needs to avoid being knocked out for 12 rounds.
Brook should have established himself as a champion first. Gunna be a pretty ugly KO most likely because he hasn't got the power to stop GGG which means he needs to avoid being knocked out for 12 rounds.
If I had to guess it's cos they saw it did nothing for Khan to fight Canelo, his reputation wasn't damaged in the slightest if anything he gained more respect losing than he did fighting a bum.
Brook gets slated for shit fights so he can now forever say he fought GGG who everyone is apparently scared of and I wouldn't be surprised if after it he fights a load of shite agfain to be honest.
Don't get why Brook gets so much stick, he's fought who he's had to and always been keen for big fights as this proves. He's also gone over to USA a couple of times to fight, what's the problem? He's not even had his belt all that long has he?
As for Golovkin, well he'll be getting the biggest fight night of his life at the o2. Fair playing to Hearne, looks like a smug git but he does deliver some shows and drama that's for sure. Eubank Snr wants a boot up the arse from his son.
As for Golovkin, well he'll be getting the biggest fight night of his life at the o2. Fair playing to Hearne, looks like a smug git but he does deliver some shows and drama that's for sure. Eubank Snr wants a boot up the arse from his son.
He's had 3 world title defences and never fought anyone of any significance. He talks up fights that never get close to being made and then makes out people are "scared" of fighting him when the reality is the fight was probably never close to being made. Even now with this GGG fight it's a bit stupid as it's not even his weight class so he has nothing to lose really. To me his career sums up everything wrong in boxing, there's to many titles so people can just hold their belts hostage and then milk being a champion for all it's worth. I wouldn't be surprised if even after this fight he takes another poor opponent and uses the GGG thing to prove he's not scared of fighting anyone. I dunno how much is the fighter and how much is Eddie Hearn, Hearn fights seem to have a similar pattern of being mismatches.
Kovalev Chilemba about to get under way on Box Nation now lads.
He's in the same situation as Calzaghe was in, outside of the UK he doesn't have a big name, so why would the other big names want to risk fighting him when they could fight another bum for a similar purse?
He's so far had the opportunity to fight the likes of Khan and Vargas and for whatever reason he has chosen not to take the fights. It's his (or his managements) problem he's not a big name.
Maybe other big names don't want to fight him but I'm not having the fact the only options to ever fight him are Jo Jo Dan, Frankie Gavin and Kevin Bizier.
I used to like the guy but his/Hearn's bullshit excuses genuinely got boring a long time ago, the guy could of cemented a good career for himself but instead people seem to be getting tired of him. Even Sky commentary bashes him at times and they're meant to talk him up.
Kovalev wins by UD in a wide points decision. Had Chilemba down at the end of the 7th and badly hurt at the end of the 8th but the bell saved Chilemba both times. Kovalev took a round off to re-energise in the 9th and by the 10th, Chilemba had regrouped and was in full spoiler mode till the end.
Andrew Ward next and he would have found positives from Chilemba's approach even if Chilemba came up short by 7 or 8 rounds on the scorecards. It was not peak-Kovalev.
Andrew Ward next and he would have found positives from Chilemba's approach even if Chilemba came up short by 7 or 8 rounds on the scorecards. It was not peak-Kovalev.
Which would all make sense if he wasn't fighting GGG. Can't see how you can say he has 'nothing to lose', that 0 means everything to boxers. He's taking a massive risk right and he only deserves credit for it.
A 0 in boxing is hugely over rated when there's an excuse for losing. Plenty of elite level boxers have been beaten or knocked out. They'll just say he's an unbeaten welterweight and spin it that he fought the most feared boxer on the planet.
Only time will tell but I still reckon he'll fight GGG and milk it for ages fighting more bums who don't stand a chance of beating him.
Doesn't matter what you or I think, or what the actual value of an 0 is worth, buts it's incredibly valuable to a boxer, there's no denying that. To be able to retire undefeated means a huge amount to these men, so for him to put it on the line against many people's P4P deserves credit. It's ridiculous to say in one breath he's avoiding tough fights and then criticise him for taking on GGG in your next.
I'm sure no one wants to lose but at the end of the day most of them do. 2 of the best fighters ever are ali and Robinson and both lost. Tyson is probably the most famous and recognizeable boxer of the last 20 or so years and he lost plenty. No one wants to lose so it's obvious a 0 means a lot but if you're fighting nobodies it's hardly anything to be bragging about. People slate Mayweather for ducking fighters and he fought some of the best, I doubt anyone remembers Kell Brook for his glorious victories over Frankie Gavin etc.
You're picking and choosing quotes to suit your argument there. Fair enough he's fighting GGG I'm not doubting that but at his actual division where fights matter he's fighting no mark names. Fight a top name in his division for his title and I'd be impressed...in fact I even praised him for fighting Vargas despite it being an easyish fight for him but shock horror that fight din't happen either.
Why does it have to be his division?! He's fighting someone bigger than he is, in what way can that be seen as inferior!? What possible reason can you give for him to 'duck' inferior fighters in his same weight category yet fighting someone two weight above him and considered P4P is something to frown upon? I get it, you don't like him, but your reasoning here is illogical.
Ok, although I thought I'd already offered some logic to my opinion in the previous posts:
It's easy promotion. He will fight Golovkin and probably lose but then Hearn and him will come out and say how "brave" he was for taking a fight that's not in his weight class and "stepping up" you want proof? Look at Khan, look at McGregor in the UFC. They both did the same thing and they have a ready made excuse for a loss. Brook can then go down to his weight and probably fight a few inferior fighters and the logic will be he fought GGG so no one can throw the "fight a big name" thing against him. Fights like this and the Khan fight with Canelo are a joke, weight classes exist for a reason. Everyone should be embarrassed about the fights really, Canelo, GGG, Brook, Khan, Hearn and whoever else is involved in them.
Again, I'll see what happens after this fight. He might fight some top contenders but I'd be surprised if he does. Surely it's a fair comment considering he's not fought many top opposition.
And my dislike for him has nothing to do with the fact he doesn't fight top fighters. Surely it's a fair comment to make. Look at his record up until GGG. I don't feel my reasoning is illogical either and I doubt I'm the only person who thinks its all a bit of a joke really.
But GGG is a top fighter, 'the' top fighter.
If his rep meant that much to him then he wouldn't risk losing his 0 by taking this fight, Khan had already lost 3 times before taking on Canelo, there's a massive difference, he didn't have much to lose, Kell does.
Again, I've explained this a milion times it feels like.
My whole argument was he hasn't fought a top fighter at his weight class. GGG isn't at the weight level where Brook is a champion.
This is Eddie Hearn who is managing this so he will spin it completely so that Brook will come out the plucky underdog who gave it all just to entertain the fans or some bollocks. There's no way Hearn has done this and it will look bad on Brook.
Again only time will tell, this is going round in circles though and is getting repetitive I'm sure you'll agree. The only way to see what happens is weight til the build up to the fight and afterwards.
I just get disappointed in Brook who could of fought some great names and put on great fights instead he has fought 3 no mark names and has now jumped up a few weight classes in what will be another waste of time.
It's not just Brook either most boxers do it and it's why the sport suffers. Just make the best in their division fight each other not jump around in weight clases. They exist for a reason.
You have, and it sounds more ridiculous every time. 'he hasn't fought anyone at his own weight class so he's a ducker. He's fighting the P4P who is two weights above but that doesnt count' is essentially what your argument boils down to. That seems to be your spin. If he fought the best and lost would you give him credit? If you did then what's the difference for him fighting someone superior to everyone in his division. If not then what's the point?
You seem to be seriously undervaluing the importance of going undefeated. You, for some reason, used Mayweather as an example of someone who has still fought everybody despite having the rep of a ducker. Even you must see these fights were meticulously selected toward the end of his career, the Pacman fight being the clearest indication. Brook still has a hell of a lot to lose fighting GGG, he's doing it because he wants to prove he is the best. He's not fighting him so he can then continue to fight bums at his weight level, that's ridiculous. Losing his 0 WILL hurt his rep, no matter what way you look at it.
What are you accusing him of exactly? He's ducking fighters because he's afraid to lose or he's afraid or damaging his reputation. Losing a fight when he claims to be the best will always damage his reputation, regardless who it is.
That's not the point though is it? I didn't say it doesn't count as a fight or any nonsense like that. I said (for me) it's not that brilliant of an achievement cos it will be spun to make him look like some brave hero cos he loses. Fight someone in your own weight class and keep boxing simple. If he fought the best in his division and lost course I'd give him credit. Fair fecks to him for taking this fight as well good luck to the guy but I just find him and his career a bit tedious. Lets be fair then and answer this question. Do you think any of his title defences have been respectable, deserving fighters? Again, even Sky shit on them and he's their fighter basically!! I've never seen them do that with anyone else.
Being undefeated is good course it is but no for me it isn't the be all and end all. I'm not discussing Mayweather's fights in details as again it's been done to death millions of times, if you think he fought people past their peak fine, it's your opinion. You seem to of missed the point I was making though. I was merely stating people slate Mayweather for his picking and choosing and the reality is if Kell Brook continued to fight the Frankie Gavin's of the world I doubt people would of looked at his unbeaten career as some huge achievement and had him as an all time great. Most people would of probably said what they have been for his last few defences that he really could of pushed on and been a very good fighter in his division if he fought anyone in it.
I'm stating (as I have previously in this topic) that his career for me has got a bit shit because he doesn't fight the best in his division. I think these fights jumping in weight are pointless cos they realistically have only 1 outcome. I used to like Brook but his career has stalled. Why not fight top fighters in your division? Again I don't buy the fact none of them want to fight him, the guys a world champion.
I equally think this is all a marketing ploy by Eddie Hearn, the guy is a clever man and good at his job. This is the same promoter who puts his fighters in "easy" fights as soon as they become champions for the large part....I'd say Crolla is one of the few exceptions to this rule. So he suddenly now puts Brook in a fight against one of the best fighters in the world? For me it's done for a reason. I still maintain he'll be saying after the fight how brave Brook is etc again we can only find out in due course though, I might be wrong.
And finally it's not just Brook who does it, it's loads of fighters and I just think it's a shame to be honest. These top level fighters are doing nothing with their careers due to boxing politics and the whole thing is shite. Brook for me is just a good example of it, just my opinion. If you like his previous level of fights and this GGG fight then good for you, I hope you enjoy it...it's good to see people liking boxing but with all sports people will have different opinions on things.
You do realise title defenses are mandatory right? Here's the thing for me, I like watching Kell fight but I'm no great lover of him as a person. Of course he couldn't fought more difficult fights, he is partly to blame himself but I completely beleive he's been avoided also. But he is now fighting GGG, the best. He isn't hiding, this fight proves that, he wouldn't take it if he thought he couldn't win either. If he thinks he can beat GGG then why on earth would he not think he could beat Vargas or Spence or Garcia? Hes fought and beaten Porter, and many in the UK wanted to see the Frankie Gavin fight. There is no way you can look at this fight and not give the bloke kudos unless it's because of pure dislike for the man. Again, I'm no fan of his, but credit where credits due.
As you have rightly pointed out there is far too much politics in boxing now, but that's just how it is. Big fights rarely happen unless it's in the best interest of both parties. Kell will fight the best in the division eventually. I mean its not like the other welterweights are fighting each other either is it? Without looking how many undefeated fighters are in the top ten 7? 8? They cant all be undefeated if they fight the best. Once a mutually beneficial situation comes about they'll agree to fighting one another.
Mandatory challengers are absolute bollocks though and most people would admit that, although Frankie Gavin wasn't his mandatory. The whole alphabet titles in boxing has ruined it that much, the IBF won't recognise someone like Danny Garcia or Thurman for example as a challenger as they hold another title so people like Hearn can hide behind the fact he "fought his mandatory" which in reality means little. Equally I'd be surprised if they stripped him of a title if he didn't fight a mandatory and fought Thurman etc instead for example.
I don't know Kell Brook so I don't know if he would take a fight he thought he couldn't win, to me it's a bit of a boxing cliche though. I'd be surprised if Berto or someone like that went into that Mayweather fight thinking they would win, they're huge underdogs. They might have a game plan like you've got to knock him out can't go to points but they must know it's unlikely they'd win, it's just a big pay day for them really and in fairness I don't think you know Kell Brook so you don't know his mentality so you can't really say "HE wouldn't take fights he knew he couldn't win" and use it as your whole argument of why he would fight Vargas, Spence etc. The fact is you don't know him, you don't know Hearn and you don't know what they think. Neither do I but then I'm not using that as my argument as to why he wouldn't fight them fighters, I'm using his past record which you concede is poor opposition.
I'm sorry but I don't know anyone who wanted that Frankie Gavin fight either, could even go back in this thread and read peoples comments. From memory no one in here wanted it, no one I know wanted the fight and even Sky were acknowledging the mismatch the more the fight went on.
I'm not criticising him personally for this fight again, I'm not putting all the blame on Brook, I've said every time fair fecks he's fighting GGG but I'm saying he doesn't fight people in his division, you even said it yourself....I'll be more impressed when he fights people his own weight class for his title that are good fighters than this fight. It's just my opinion and I've justified it enough times. I'm not saying you're wrong for thinking what you do, fair enough he took the fight I've said it every time. Just me personally I'd rather see him fight good fighters in his division rather than this and again I've justified my reasons in every post but it seemingly isn't good enough for you. So it's just we disagree with each other, fair enough it happens but you can't be blind to the fact I'm entitled to an opinion and have justified it.
Other welterweights have fought each other though. Thurman just fought Porter in probably the best fight of the year, big fights do happen. Hearn has come up with loads of reasons Brook can't get a big fight, he's admitted in interviews he's not a big enough name to get people over to Sheffield to fight him....so why didn't he go to America when he had the chance and build a name up there? Hatton did it and probably doesn't regret it. Brook is an exciting fighter when he gets going but rightfully the American audience isn't going to be hugely into fights with JoJo Dan and Kevin Bizier, this GGG fight will be the test.
So the only example of a fight of the welterweight elite is Thurman vs Porter, Kell Brook fought Porter, and beat him, hardly the best example to us now is it?
You can say 'fair fecks' all you like about Brook fighting GGG but you're still belittling it, I get that you want to see welterweights fights, so do I, but it seems crazy to criticise Brooks integrity as a fighter when you berate him for not taking on inferior fighters because he's ducking them. Brook would've happily fought Vargas but managed to bait a bigger fish, he would've happily fought Khan but Khan turned down the oppotunity.
Look at ring mags top 10. We have Brook, Thurman, Garcia, Spence, Ponomarev, Gomez all with 0's their name, it's hard getting a fight with anyone in this division because no one wants to lose. To pick out Book to criticise and then praise Thurman is a little ridiculous, christ his fight before Porter was Collazo!