The RedCafe Boxing Thread

Stacking that Joshua card with some decent/interesting names then.

Obviously got Joshua but then below that Murray/Groves, Eubank Jr and also Benn both fighting on the same night.

Found it strange Hearn lost purse bid for Eubank Jr anyway recently always thought he was a good name in boxing and his fights are always good to watch.
 
Did boxer duck fights like this back in its prime?
So frustrating when one so called top fighter seems to run from fights.
There should be bigger implications if you avoid a fighter than just losing a belt. Lose a potential amount of purse money for next few fights, or start right back at the bottom of the tree.
 
Feck sake, don't do this to me Canelo.
Igor Drefljak said:
Did boxer duck fights like this back in its prime?
So frustrating when one so called top fighter seems to run from fights.
There should be bigger implications if you avoid a fighter than just losing a belt. Lose a potential amount of purse money for next few fights, or start right back at the bottom of the tree.
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Yeah, Sugar Ray Leonard is one of the biggest duckers of all time.
 
Wow, what a bitch. They'll spin it saying they didn't want to be held ransom to a purse bid etc and want more money but that won't be the case. THis just looks pathetic for him it really does. Basically Lemeiux, Murray, Monroe Jr, Wade etc all have more balls than Canelo. This is the kind of thing that ruins boxing. 2 legit fighters and 1 of them is scared so doesn't fight? Terrible....I think the more stuff like this happens and there's top fights in UFC eventually boxing will end up falling behind.
 
Canelo is a bum. He knows it. Oscar knows it. Boxing is so bad right now, he might actually be a top 10 fighter P4P. 15 years ago, he wouldn´t even be a top 10 fighter from Mexico with guys like Morales, Barrera, Marquez Brothers, Lopez, Castillo, Vasquez...That´s before we even get to the guys with Mexican heritage like Oscar, Vargas, Corrales...
 
Oggmonster said:
Wow, what a bitch. They'll spin it saying they didn't want to be held ransom to a purse bid etc and want more money but that won't be the case. THis just looks pathetic for him it really does. Basically Lemeiux, Murray, Monroe Jr, Wade etc all have more balls than Canelo. This is the kind of thing that ruins boxing. 2 legit fighters and 1 of them is scared so doesn't fight? Terrible....I think the more stuff like this happens and there's top fights in UFC eventually boxing will end up falling behind.
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It´s already behind. Sure you still got some big PPV numbers, but look at the overall amount of televised fight cards or PPV events. Sure Canelo can draw 600k to fight a chinless lightweight, when he is more or less the only PPV fight in boxing in the first six months of the year.
 
JustFootballFan said:
It´s already behind. Sure you still got some big PPV numbers, but look at the overall amount of televised fight cards or PPV events. Sure Canelo can draw 600k to fight a chinless lightweight, when he is more or less the only PPV fight in boxing in the first six months of the year.
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I think it's a bit unfair to suggest it's already behind...you look at the average numbers each does and the revenue they make and I'd hazard a guess that boxing is still quite a bit ahead.

What do you mean the only PPV fight? There's been plenty of PPV fights in America and around the world. For example a list of HBO PPVs this year:
  • Kovalev vs. Pascal
  • Crawford vs. Lundy
  • Ortiz vs. Thompson
  • Ward vs. Barrerra
  • Pacquiao vs. Bradley
  • GGG vs. Wade
You've also got 4 more coming up in the next 2 months and that's just on 1 channel. I don't dispute that boxing has suffered a post Mayweather hangover and needs another star and as I said it will decline if it's not careful but to suggest UFC (or MMA) is ahead of it would be slightly unfair at the moment. Look at the numbers UFC PPVs do without McGregor or Rousey on a card and they're no better than boxing.
 
Boxing really is a shite sport. And I say this as somebody that really enjoys the fighting.

It must be the only sport in existence in which individuals at the pinnacle of the profession can pick and choose when to compete against each other, if at all.

Football, golf, tennis, athletics, eventing, rugby, cricket, snooker, darts etc, etc. The list goes on. All of these sports boast great rivalries because the best performers compete against one another to reach the summit.

Boxing lags a long way behind.
 
Kag said:
Boxing really is a shite sport. And I say this as somebody that really enjoys the fighting.

It must be the only sport in existence in which individuals at the pinnacle of the profession can pick and choose when to compete against each other, if at all.

Football, golf, tennis, athletics, eventing, rugby, cricket, snooker, darts etc, etc. The list goes on. All of these sports boast great rivalries because the best performers compete against one another to reach the summit.

Boxing lags a long way behind.
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Yep, it's been said loads of times as well but it's the many levels of promoters, ridiculous number of belts and people terrified of "protecting their legacy" that means boxing is going to struggle for a while to come with stuff like this.

We'll get the odd "big fight" but then we will get a load of shite to follow it.

When was the last time there was 2 big name fighters fighting in their prime? I wouldn't even count Wlad vs. Fury as that, that is only considered a big fight with the benefit of hindsight. Even Mayweather vs. Pacquiao happened way to late although was obviously a huge draw.

You look at stuff like Jones vs. Cormier (1 or 2), McGregor vs. Aldo etc and they're even 50/50 fights with both fighters at their prime. Look at boxing and you've got Canelo vs. Khan where 1 weights a load more, Kell Brook beating up people who shouldn't be in the ring with him and every fighter seemingly ducking GGG.

The last few years have been awful for boxing. I think it needs a major revamp personally.
 
Canelo's spin on vacating is to avoid artificial deadlines for the fight to be made and to do so on everyone's terms in everyone's own time.

On the face of it, I get that weak but somewhat logical view but if they (Golden Boy) honestly believe that protracted negotiations between Canelo and GGG wouldn't have been granted extra time by the boxing organisations to get the deal done then they're fools and it won't wash. It may end up as some of the poorest PR in modern times where everyone knows they're scared that their most marketable star is at serious risk of being wiped out.

The sooner PBC complete their UFC total control aspiration objective the better. Even watching Floyd's smug grin every event is better than this nonsense if they replicate the match making model.
 
Eubank Jr is fighting some lad from my area....my year in school and all that. He won prizefighter and is undefeated, but that's some step up. Fair play to him.
 
Nemesis9 said:
http://www.fightnews.com/Boxing/canelo-to-vacate-wbc-title-338338

He actually vacated!

https://www.instagram.com/p/BFkRrW0HrCw/
@Revan
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Not a surprise, was expecting this. Canelo is arguably the most marketable boxer in the world right now, and an almost guaranteed knock out won't help his career. He is playing it safe now that he has become famous, and will continue fighting lesser boxers, building a reputation like Mayweather.

Then in a few years when GGG slows down because of age, they will probably fight, and Canelo will 'prove' that he is better than GGG.
 
Igor Drefljak said:
Did boxer duck fights like this back in its prime?
So frustrating when one so called top fighter seems to run from fights.
There should be bigger implications if you avoid a fighter than just losing a belt. Lose a potential amount of purse money for next few fights, or start right back at the bottom of the tree.
Click to expand...
Yep. Even Myke Tyson ducked Lewis in the nineties.
 
Kazi said:
Yeah, Sugar Ray Leonard is one of the biggest duckers of all time.
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Hagler?

I don't know, possibly. Like many boxers, Ray Leonard did a return after his retirement, and he defeated Kagler, although it might be comparable with Mayweather beating Pacquiao.
 
Spoony said:
Hagler beat him that night.
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Referees gave it to Leonard, as did most of the independent media.

A fight that happened a few years later than it should have happened though. Similar to May-Pac fight.
 
Revan said:
Hagler?

I don't know, possibly. Like many boxers, Ray Leonard did a return after his retirement, and he defeated Kagler, although it might be comparable with Mayweather beating Pacquiao.
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No wasn't talking about Hagler. SRL ducked a lot of other high level opponents when he was at the top. Was too much money to be made in the Hagler fight.
 
Kazi said:
No wasn't talking about Hagler. SRL ducked a lot of other high level opponents when he was at the top. Was too much money to be made in the Hagler fight.
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He didn't. He fought and beat the bests. Benitez, Duran, Hagler and Hearns.

There are people who say that he ducked Pryor, but that just doesn't make sense. You don't fight Duran and Hagler and then duck Pryor. That is just like fighting Canelo and GGG, but then ducking someone like Khan (well, Pryor was better, but he was so much lighter, he was barely making 147lbs). In addition, Pryor admitted that Leonard gave him 500k, but Pryor wanted more. Pryor's top fight until then gave him 50k (10 times less). Champions were getting 500k or so against Leonard. In addition, during that time when Pryor wanted that fight, Leonard was fighting people in fights that were generating 10 times or so that much money.

Someone might say that he ducked Hagler for not fighting him at their best, but lets be fair, he had a good reason to retire. In fact, when he came back, everybody was against it, considering his retina detachment.

SRL is one of the few boxers in the history, who fight against the best, and beat the best. He's an all time great!
 
Revan said:
Not a surprise, was expecting this. Canelo is arguably the most marketable boxer in the world right now, and an almost guaranteed knock out won't help his career. He is playing it safe now that he has become famous, and will continue fighting lesser boxers, building a reputation like Mayweather.

Then in a few years when GGG slows down because of age, they will probably fight, and Canelo will 'prove' that he is better than GGG.
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I think it's a bit harsh to lump Mayweather in with Canelo (equally Canelo did fight Floyd in fairness to him)

Realistically who has Alvarez really fought in their top peak?

His list of "big" fights are:
  • Mayweather (he lost)
  • Baldomir ( was past his best and was never brilliant anyway)
  • Moseley (way past his best and hadn't won his last 3 fights before Canelo)
  • Lara (people though Canelo lost the fight)
  • Cotto (past his best)
  • Khan (jumped up 2 weight classes)
Mayweather did fight big names, it's a bit of a myth he never fought them at their peak.
  • He fought Corrales when he was unbeaten and at his peak
  • He fought a prime Castillo twice
  • He gave Gatti a brutal beating
  • He chased De La Hoya and beat him, although probably a bit to late in DLH career Floyd didn't duck him, if anything it was the other way round for a while
  • He beat an unbeaten Hatton
There's another names in there to like N'Dou and Judah at their peaks. I agree he got selective by the end of his career but he didn't go his whole career not fighting big names when they were good. What I always find interesting is Mayweather is called a ducket and Pacquiao isn't....yet Mayweather fought a lot of the names before Manny did.

One thing I always think is that Mayweather didn't help boxing with the unbeaten thing because people have become obsessed with never losing....although Canelo has lost so it's a bit weird, I think he's more worried about getting knocked out though. It's a shame boxing has become like that. DLH is his manager and he got stopped and still had a good career despite it.
 
Oggmonster said:
I think it's a bit harsh to lump Mayweather in with Canelo (equally Canelo did fight Floyd in fairness to him)

Realistically who has Alvarez really fought in their top peak?

His list of "big" fights are:
  • Mayweather (he lost)
  • Baldomir ( was past his best and was never brilliant anyway)
  • Moseley (way past his best and hadn't won his last 3 fights before Canelo)
  • Lara (people though Canelo lost the fight)
  • Cotto (past his best)
  • Khan (jumped up 2 weight classes)
Mayweather did fight big names, it's a bit of a myth he never fought them at their peak.
  • He fought Corrales when he was unbeaten and at his peak
  • He fought a prime Castillo twice
  • He gave Gatti a brutal beating
  • He chased De La Hoya and beat him, although probably a bit to late in DLH career Floyd didn't duck him, if anything it was the other way round for a while
  • He beat an unbeaten Hatton
There's another names in there to like N'Dou and Judah at their peaks. I agree he got selective by the end of his career but he didn't go his whole career not fighting big names when they were good. What I always find interesting is Mayweather is called a ducket and Pacquiao isn't....yet Mayweather fought a lot of the names before Manny did.

One thing I always think is that Mayweather didn't help boxing with the unbeaten thing because people have become obsessed with never losing....although Canelo has lost so it's a bit weird, I think he's more worried about getting knocked out though. It's a shame boxing has become like that. DLH is his manager and he got stopped and still had a good career despite it.
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May definitely ducked Pac man. I don't care about others, cause May would have definitely win against them, but he didn't want to fight Pac when Pac was knocking the shit out of opponents. However, May fought (and won) against many fighters who were past their best. No idea if he was waiting for that, or it just was a coincidence.

It is unfair to put Canelo with him, cause Canelo has done feck all compared with May, but he is definitely playing it safe. Which isn't uncommon on box, even the likes of Tyson were doing that.

It is quite sad that it seems that Canelo's manager is making him duck GGG. De La Hoya made a career for going against everyone and heavily criticized May for ducking Pac and co., but it seems that De La Hoya as manager is a different person to him as a boxer. A shame that we won't see this fight, but I wasn't ever optimistic on that. It was just a too much risk for Canelo at this stage, and he will wait for another few years to do that.

It is interesting to see if the Mexican fans will stand for these. Latino fans don't like boxers who duck, or who don't fight. They never forgave Duran for quitting against Sugar Ray, and that is a lesser crime than vacating the title cause you're so shit scared on fighting with someone.
 
Revan said:
May definitely ducked Pac man. I don't care about others, cause May would have definitely win against them, but he didn't want to fight Pac when Pac was knocking the shit out of opponents. However, May fought (and won) against many fighters who were past their best. No idea if he was waiting for that, or it just was a coincidence.

It is unfair to put Canelo with him, cause Canelo has done feck all compared with May, but he is definitely playing it safe. Which isn't uncommon on box, even the likes of Tyson were doing that.

It is quite sad that it seems that Canelo's manager is making him duck GGG. De La Hoya made a career for going against everyone and heavily criticized May for ducking Pac and co., but it seems that De La Hoya as manager is a different person to him as a boxer. A shame that we won't see this fight, but I wasn't ever optimistic on that. It was just a too much risk for Canelo at this stage, and he will wait for another few years to do that.

It is interesting to see if the Mexican fans will stand for these. Latino fans don't like boxers who duck, or who don't fight. They never forgave Duran for quitting against Sugar Ray, and that is a lesser crime than vacating the title cause you're so shit scared on fighting with someone.
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I didn't say he didn't duck him. I even said he got selective towards the end of his career, my comment was that you said Mayweather fought "lesser" boxers but if anything he proved himself far more than Canelo ever did. Equally Mayweather after DLH fight was a huge box office draw (100s of million dollars a fight) which Canelo isn't really as numbers now show. He could afford to be more selective. Rightly or wrongly that's the path he took. I agree it's a shame he didn't fight Pac sooner....for what it's worth though I think there was a time they both didn't want to fight each other, I don't think it was all Mayweather really.

My point was more that people accuse Mayweather of ducking plenty of fighters but he fought plenty at their peak, he was also quite avoided himself when he was younger so that didn't help. I assume people who think Mayweather ducked fighters throw the same accusation at Manny as well? They were both pretty selective with fighters fought once they got to the top. All boxers play politics as you rightly allude to with Tyson.

I'd never take DLH seriously on anything to do with Mayweather either, the guy seems hugely bitter about everything he does since he beat him.
 
Oggmonster said:
I didn't say he didn't duck him. I even said he got selective towards the end of his career, my comment was that you said Mayweather fought "lesser" boxers but if anything he proved himself far more than Canelo ever did. Equally Mayweather after DLH fight was a huge box office draw (100s of million dollars a fight) which Canelo isn't really as numbers now show. He could afford to be more selective. Rightly or wrongly that's the path he took. I agree it's a shame he didn't fight Pac sooner....for what it's worth though I think there was a time they both didn't want to fight each other, I don't think it was all Mayweather really.

My point was more that people accuse Mayweather of ducking plenty of fighters but he fought plenty at their peak, he was also quite avoided himself when he was younger so that didn't help. I assume people who think Mayweather ducked fighters throw the same accusation at Manny as well? They were both pretty selective with fighters fought once they got to the top. All boxers play politics as you rightly allude to with Tyson.

I'd never take DLH seriously on anything to do with Mayweather either, the guy seems hugely bitter about everything he does since he beat him.
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In the end, it looks that it has been a mutual ducking, because both of them had too much to lose.

The list of boxers that Mayweather 'ducked' is endless according to some, but in reality I think that the only boxers he ducked (next to Pac) were Winky Wright and Miguel Cotto. The likes of Margarito he didn't duck, just that there were other better fights he took back then.

I wasn't comparing Canelo to May. May is a top 20 - top 30 boxer (if you are generous then maybe even a top 10 - top 15), while Canelo isn't a top 100 boxer, but I was comparing this type of not taking every fight, but taking just those you are likely to win.
 
Parker - Takam about to go down on Sky Sports 3 for UK viewers...
 
Aye, Takam causing issues but not quite enough just yet. Takam seems to be taking a round on and off with the pressure onto Parker. Will be interesting to see if Parker's power can stop him late.
 
Stack said:
I thought it would be even closer than that. Good fight.
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Agreed. Right result but I didn't think there was more than 2 rounds in it at most. Still, close enough from the judges tbf to them.
 
Its a good fight for Parker, worth getting tested at an early age in his career. Takam isn't brilliant but he's got good experience. Hopefully Joshua fights someone like that soon. Parker would of learnt more from that than Joshua did in most his other fights.
 
Oggmonster said:
Its a good fight for Parker, worth getting tested at an early age in his career. Takam isn't brilliant but he's got good experience. Hopefully Joshua fights someone like that soon. Parker would of learnt more from that than Joshua did in most his other fights.
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Agreed again. That said, if those 2 (Parker and Joshua) fight next, then for me, AJ wipes him clean out in the mid rounds if he comes in switched on. I may have bought into the hype on AJ a bit much with that prediction because I know he too is vulnerable and open but Joshua was crudely so and evidently rocked at times in that fight.
 
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