Completely agree with @Oggmonster on most of his last posts
The RedCafe Boxing Thread
- Thread starter CLK_FPC
- Start date
Fury's admitted he's motivated by money now since he won the titles, said he had nothing else to prove.
With regards to legacy. Legacy with who? He won 5 different heavyweight world titles. He beat a man who hadn't lost in 12 years and many people could never see losing, he helped breathe a fresh lease of life into what was seen as a division which was suffering because people felt it would never get out the Klitschko era (both Vitali and Wladimir.) Even if he lost the rematch he's always going to have some kind of legacy. Whether people like him or hate him he will always be the man who helped change heavyweight boxing. It seems like I'm in a minority (along with @FC Ronaldo) but I'm surprised at how little boxing fans give Fury credit. I understand people don't like the person but surely people have to respect what he has done? I think it'll be terrible for the sport if Wlad wins the rematch personally. There's a lot of bright young heavyweights and it could be a really open division.
Fury is the legit heavyweight world champion (if there ever is one these days). He is the man. Has achieved all of his (and most boxing fans') childhood dreams. Money would be the only thing driving most people on from there if they're honest with themselves.
He's a very good 'boxer' in the truest pugilistic sense of the word. He can hurt people after wearing them down but essentially his style is to score points, create a visual margin of victory and outclass opponents. In the heavyweight game, those assets at the top level are very rare.
Like him or not on a personal level, professionally if anything he should be appreciated for having the skillset to apply that style of fighting in the 1 weight class where mistakes cost you most. He also did that against one of the top 5 best heavyweights ever.
Floyd chose to dance for 10 years and earn a huge living. Tyson Fury might be able to do that too but it looks like he's humble enough to play (politically) for a chance at earning serious bucks to retire with and live a quieter life with his family. Again, like him or not personally, nobody can not respect that. He's made an angle to financially maximise his earning potential without having the raw skillset of almost every heavyweight champion of the last 30 years or so. That deserves appreciating.
He's a very good 'boxer' in the truest pugilistic sense of the word. He can hurt people after wearing them down but essentially his style is to score points, create a visual margin of victory and outclass opponents. In the heavyweight game, those assets at the top level are very rare.
Like him or not on a personal level, professionally if anything he should be appreciated for having the skillset to apply that style of fighting in the 1 weight class where mistakes cost you most. He also did that against one of the top 5 best heavyweights ever.
Floyd chose to dance for 10 years and earn a huge living. Tyson Fury might be able to do that too but it looks like he's humble enough to play (politically) for a chance at earning serious bucks to retire with and live a quieter life with his family. Again, like him or not personally, nobody can not respect that. He's made an angle to financially maximise his earning potential without having the raw skillset of almost every heavyweight champion of the last 30 years or so. That deserves appreciating.
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This is brilliant
He looks awful, can't help but laugh at his quotes
I respect his achievement of dethroning a great champion, but why did he have to demean his own achievement that and the sacrifices all boxers make, to get to their peak fighting conditions, with all the stupid, attention seeking comments he made at yesterday's presser.
The thing is, he is a walking contradiction, because over the period of the next few weeks he will be fully dedicated to the sport to get to optimum fighting weight, so why come out with all that BS yesterday, he's a bit of a media whore who will do anything for a headline.
i appreciate your opinion, but Furys gob is two minutes in front of his brain and it's getting old quite quickly now.
As opposed to probably one of the 2 most famous boxers of all time Mike Tyson. Who was an example of a man with classic lines like "I'll rape you til you love me faggot" and "I'll eat your children." I never get the criticism of boxers for being "old" or "boring" people say the same about McGregor in MMA. Just don't watch it. it really isn't hard. I don't like Corrie so I don't watch it, surely it's the same thing?
Again, he didn't say he wasn't training just he doesn't like it. There's a difference between the 2. I've heard plenty of fighters say they hate training but do it cos they're good at it. Fury obviously enjoys boxing (he says as much) but doesn't enjoy the work involved. He's not the only 1.
Well, yeah. He's a promoter's dream really. His promoters' are shit tbh and he does a great job of getting his name out there.
Anyway, when Fury's talking about his beliefs, I think he's talking 100% the truth. When he's talking boxing, he's very calculated in what he says. Whether that be about his opponent, motivation, whatever.
I can take or leave Fury as a fighter but i love the fact he is such a loose cannon. The media and the authorities hate people who they can't control whereas Joshua is scripted to the word but is far from squeaky clean from what i've heard.
Confidence is a huge thing in any sport and Fury has it in abundance. He isn't scared of anyone or anything and he's in Klitschko's head.
Confidence is a huge thing in any sport and Fury has it in abundance. He isn't scared of anyone or anything and he's in Klitschko's head.
He said he "hates boxing" then, ridiculed Wlad for getting beat by a "fat boy" which was a lie because Fury trained like a Demon, like I say he's a media whore always looking for a soundbite.
Don't see what or how iron mikes comments can be equivocally compared to Furys, Mike Tyson had a mental illness and was suicidal when he made them comments during the Lewis promotion, he is on medication for his illnesses these days.
So what get's more publicity and money in the future, Fury with this angle, or Fury going through the normal pre fight? More fool anyone who is getting wound up by his antics.
The whole fat stuff works though. Even Wlad admits it, it pisses him off you can tell by the press conference (and the fact he says it's embarrassing he lost to Fury.) After and just before the first fight people were calling Fury fat then...he's put on more weight now but he wasn't in brilliant condition before that fight, albeit he was in the best condition he's probably been in. His body will never be like Wlad, Joshua, Haye etc it's not built like that.
I bring up Tyson because you imply Fury's legacy will be tarnished by his comments. If anything Tyson proves stuff like that makes you more notorious. Tyson probably isn't even in the top 10 heavyweights ever yet people put him in the Top 10 BOXERS ever...it's a legacy that was helped by the image he created. He lost every big fight he was in really but his baddest man on the planet persona elevated him to a ridiculous level.
Fury knows what he's doing. I dont think he's nearly as stupid as people make out. He gets people talking the proof is in the pudding by the fact this threaad is the most active it's been in weeks since he had a press conference!!
I am officially rooting for him. He's brilliant.
He is, until about the 10th minute when he starts blabbering about cows on steroids.
Oh, I stopped way before that.
Yeah good point
http://www.boxingscene.com/james-degale-rips-eddie-hearn-i-lick-his-ass-hes-bitter--103960
DeGale laying into HEarn a bit in an interview there (can't copy and paste the interview off Boxing Scene.) Makes some good points in there really.
DeGale laying into HEarn a bit in an interview there (can't copy and paste the interview off Boxing Scene.) Makes some good points in there really.
Will watch it later, in work atm.
I see Francisco Vargas has failed a drug test, and tested positive for clenbuterol, he said he must have ingested it through eating "affected" meat (wow there's a new one), his upcoming fight against Orlando Salido is still going ahead though.
Seems a hell of a lot of boxers are falling foul of testing, is doping rife in the sport or are the test picking up on silly things that everyone eats or drinks sometime or another ???
Seems a hell of a lot of boxers are falling foul of testing, is doping rife in the sport or are the test picking up on silly things that everyone eats or drinks sometime or another ???
Anybody seen Haye sparring with Wilder?
He absolutely toys with him.
He absolutely toys with him.
where can I see this?
Fury is his own best promoter.Really hope he can beat Wladimir again because it would give the Heavyweight division a real buzz to it, particular for us Brits.
Errrr... what are you talking about man, Tyson never won a big fight?!?!?! He feckin dominated the heavy weight division for about 5 years, in a period when there were far more better heavy weights then there have been since that period, beating every big name in the division you can imagine. For those years when Tyson what as his peak he was an absolute monster of a heavy weight. His speed and power were frighting. If anything his boxing skills were underrated. If Ali is no. 1 then Tyson is a very close no. 2.
Another thing that I can't understand in this thread is how people underrate Joshua. He's easily the best heavy weight I've seen since Tyson. He's a classic counter puncher with great speed and awesome power. Joshua is going to dominate the heavy weight division, period.
So you're saying Tyson beat every big name in the division I can imagine? Erm....ok then....
Mike Tyson's biggest fights:
Evander Holyfield - Loss (KO)
Evander Holyfield - Loss (DQ)
Lennox Lewis - Loss (KO)
There he is, beating all the big names!! And I appreciate Lewis was when he was past his prime but then use the Holyfield examples, he got KOed once and was losing the second fight before getting himself disqualified.
His biggest win was either Bruno the first time or Spinks. On top of that he beat a 39 year old Larry Holmes who lost his 2 last fights and he has said he only fought him because he wanted "revenge" for what Holmes did to Ali.
Don't get me wrong I like Tyson and he has a hugely entertaining highlight reel but seriously lets not kid ourselves with this notion that he was the best boxer. Most notorious? Most famous? I'd agree with. Most entertaining? Probably up there yeah. But he's definitely not the best...he's not even the best heavyweight of his era.
How can you justify he is "a very close number 2" to Ali? Seriously? Look at some of the other fighters that have fought in recent year. I genuinely wouldn't have Tyson in a top 10 of greatest boxers ever list.
People justify Tyson's career and validate it by giving him the line "if Cus D'Amoto didn't die then he would of dominated!" They may be right, unfortunately the reality is he did die and Tyson's career is remembered now for what it is, he was brilliantly marketed and it worked. He wasn't a bum but I don't think he was this unstoppable monster.
No one really knows where they stand with Joshua either, infact in this thread most people jsut say he hasn't fought a big name so can't really judge. He looks the real deal but only time will tell. Surely again that's a fair comment to make?
Really?!?! He didn't box Holyfield until he was past his peak. When Tyson was at his peak Holyfield was still a cruiserweight.
In that Tyson's peak period, particularly '86-'90, Tyson boxed all the big names in the heavyweight division. Obviously by the time he was defeated by Buster Douglas, years of hard living & drug abuse were starting to take its toll on Tyson. Had Tyson boxed Holyfield in peak condition he would have slaughtered Holyfield.
The only thing that goes against Tyson was his longevity. But at his peak Tyson was simply awesome.
In that Tyson's peak period, particularly '86-'90, Tyson boxed all the big names in the heavyweight division. Obviously by the time he was defeated by Buster Douglas, years of hard living & drug abuse were starting to take its toll on Tyson. Had Tyson boxed Holyfield in peak condition he would have slaughtered Holyfield.
The only thing that goes against Tyson was his longevity. But at his peak Tyson was simply awesome.
I think you quite like Fury. It's what I've gleaned from a few of your posts in here. I don't have a problem with that or anything, or how you separate his clearly odious views aside from his obvious talent. But he doesn't deserve credit for saying appalling things at all.
It's fair to say that in his position as a professional sportsperson, he and his views are there to aimed at when they don't fall in line with what rational people consider to be sound. Some of things he says and some of the things he does paints the picture of a man that has some clear issues.
I wouldn't at all be surprised to see him self destruct upon leaving boxing. And on the basis of his current figure, if he gets in the ring like that against Wlad then he poses a serious risk to his own physical wellbeing.
Like I said initially, I think people give him too much credit when they pass off much of what he does and says as marketing.
I do like Fury sometimes, though don't share most of his views. I do like his honesty, too.
More intelligent than people think as well.
More intelligent than people think as well.
The irony of the "past it" stuff surrounding that fight is that Lewis was a year older than Tyson. Now, Lewis did age better than Tyson due to lifestyle decisions and not being a psychopath. But then there's the fact that Tyson paid Lewis 4m dollars to pass on his mandatory challenge in 96. Tyson ducked Lewis.
Lewis is actually a supremely underrated fighter. One of the top 5 heavyweights off all time in my eyes. Beat everyone he ever fought.
The problem with debating with Tyson fans is you can't win really. If you think he's one of the best ever fair enough. Stats just suggest otherwise though and that's a simple fact. Heavyweights from around the same era have beat better fighters than he ever did.
His peak was 86-90 by default...he went to prison for 5 years in what SHOULD of been his peak. he debuted professionally in 85 and to suggest he peaked 1 year into his career shows how ridiculous his career was.
You're using ifs and buts to decide whether Tyson was one of the best ever. How do you know he would of slaughtered Holyfield? The facts are simple, they fought twice and Holyfield won, twice.
Tyson alludes to similar stuff in his films, stand up tours etc.
Perhaps he could of been an all time great but the reality is he did lose his big fights and he probably missed what should of been his peak. He'll go down as one of the most notorious and probably famous boxers ever. He was hugely exciting but one of the best? Definitely not for me.
Agreed. Do you think a lot of heavyweights reputation in that era suffers cos of Tyson though? They were coming up at the same time as the most famous boxer around, especially at the time. Have you seen Chasing Tyson? It's worth a watch, follows Holyfield career when he wanted to fight Tyson and is really interesting and alludes to that kind of thing.
Lewis probably suffers in England cos of Bruno as well. Lewis being Canadian and Bruno being English meant he'd be remembered more fondly. I think Lewis is looked on much better now his career is over than it was when he fought.
To be honest mate I'll admit he's grown on my since he became champion. Mainly cos it's just something a bit different. I don't condone the homophobic stuff or anything at all but I honestly find his press conferences funny because they're so ludicrous. I just try not to judge people in the spotlight cos of their personal views on stuff. If people do that's fair enough and I don't blame them for that but I just think plenty of boxers are probably dicks but they just hide it better than Tyson.
For people to judge him on his views etc it's fair enough, each to their own. I think it's unfair when people (not yourself by any means) suggest he's a pretty average fighter or try and discredit his professional career cos of what he thinks.
I guess time will tell if he'll self destruct, from what I've heard about the Fury family from people who live around their area he's actually quite a quiet person away from the spotlight...but yeah we never know about stuff like that.
I suppose I just appreciate the breath of fresh air he's created in what was a terrible division, its helped by others as well but it's fair to see he was the one who toppled the giant. I hope he wins the rematch as well cos if Wlad wins then it's back to square 1 really with regards to the titles. Although if anyone really gives a shit about titles anymore I dunno. Fury vs. Joshua for no belts for example is a much bigger fight and one he can fall back on.
That's been pissing me off lately. Joshua is the best thing since sliced bread, but Fury is an "average fighter". A lot (nearly all) of these poeple obviously haven't been watching boxing long enough. A quick head to head of their respective opponents tells you everything. Fury has beaten people who are levels higher than anyone Joshua has ever fought.
And I've never even really rated Fury (though I did give him props for his feat in Germany, tactically excellent -- which surprised me -- not because Fury isn't a smart boxer, but because he'd never really fought like that before: disciplined, methodical, monotonous, and effective).
Fury is like a shit version of McGregor. I can see the need to hype up the fight but Christ....
Don't get me wrong, I also find him funny at times. "This Klit is getting licked" had me buckled. Probably not to everyone's taste, but hey ho. Aside from the odd comment like that, like I said, I find him to be an (outwardly) awful human being.
As for the boxing side of things, I agree with you that he's a canny fighter and that his achievement in Germany should not be undermined due to his personality. I was pleased he won that fight because if any division needed a major shakeup it was the heavyweights.
I was never a Tyson fan...
All you have to do is check out Tyson's performances on YouTube and see for yourself what Tyson was like in his peak years compared to his performances, for example, against Holyfield.
In his peak years he was so fast, continuously bobbing weaving, you could hardly lay on punch on him. For example, guys like Berber, Tucker and Spinks were all in their prime when Tyson slaughtered them and all 3 were World class heavy weights in their own rights when they faced Tyson. By the time Tyson had faced Holyfield he had lost that edge & sharpness. The difference is extremely noticeable.
Hughie Fury (Tyson's younger cousin who's 22) just beat the guy who beat Joshua's next opponent on almost everyone's scorecards except the judges. Beat him very easily as well.
Ortiz, man... Simply put, no punch resistance.
Ok, we'll agree to disagree. I'll never rate Tyson as one of the top heavyweights. His career downfall was his own fault. When he should of peaked he fecked it up for himself, no one else is to blame. Checking out his performances on YouTube kind of proves the point as well. He's got a great highlight reel cos of his quick knockouts but for me he was no where near the level of other top heavyweights...Holyfield, Lewis, Vitali Klitschko for example are all better fighters for me. Each to their own though...like I said before when people think Tyson is one of the best ever they'll never budge so there's no point discussing it.
Hughie is a weird one, people rated him higher than Tyson before the Wlad fight. Only young as well...be interesting to see what comes for him in the next few years.