The RedCafe Boxing Thread

I agree, it's surely a good thing for the HW division. 10 Years of Klitschko jabbing his way to victory is long enough. Not a Fury fan but at least his future fights will be more exciting. Wlad was so safe and boring (a bit like this current Utd side).

Plus I don't think Fury will reign for very long. Fingers crossed this has opened the door to a new era.
 
Adcuth said:
I think it makes the division more open and more exciting. He may be an idiot sometimes but he's technically a good boxer, but always has the chance of getting dropped. It's better than any previous Wlad fight where you know it'll be a boring fight with Wlad winning by any means (ko or points) Fury loves to entertain, even if were laughing with him or at him it's still funny. All the major players in the division are on an even more level playing field with some decent up and comers vying for position. I don't get how this is a bad thing regardless of your feeling for Tyson.
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Agreed.

Let's ignore his colourful past briefly too, this opens the division up.

Complete this paragraph yourself:

If you're a [insert name here] fan, it's the very best thing that could have happened. Fury's style and vulnerability open up to aggressive power punchers. [Insert country here] could have the most exciting heavy weight champion since Mike Tyson.

Joshua - England
Haye - England
Wilder - America
Povetkin - Russia
Parker - New Zealand
Browne - Australia

Take your pick. I'm sure I've left more out.
 
Also worth a mention from last Saturday, in the lower weight classes, Errol Spence Jr continues to shine (and one of the Charlo twins also looking good.)

The potential of Spence is huge. Can see him and Crawford fighting it out for p4p status down the line.
 
FC Ronaldo said:
Agreed.

Let's ignore his colourful past briefly too, this opens the division up.

Complete this paragraph yourself:

If you're a [insert name here] fan, it's the very best thing that could have happened. Fury's style and vulnerability open up to aggressive power punchers. [Insert country here] could have the most exciting heavy weight champion since Mike Tyson.

Joshua - England
Haye - England
Wilder - America
Povetkin - Russia
Parker - New Zealand
Browne - Australia

Take your pick. I'm sure I've left more out.
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I could care less about a boxers past, he's a fighter not running for Prime Minister. I wanna see him and his opposition fight till the better man wins.
 
I do not understand the press and the hatred over some misguided comments by Fury. Lets face it he is hardly the sharpest tool in the box and although there is no excuse for his bigotry if you were nitpicking at the faults of anyone in the public eye you would find fault, movie stars, sports men and women, musicians- they have all had something stupid they have said in the past. Oliver Holt is slime.
 
Werder Herzog said:
I do not understand the press and the hatred over some misguided comments by Fury. Lets face it he is hardly the sharpest tool in the box and although there is no excuse for his bigotry if you were nitpicking at the faults of anyone in the public eye you would find fault, movie stars, sports men and women, musicians- they have all had something stupid they have said in the past. Oliver Holt is slime.
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In fairness to Fury he's not an idiot. He actually comes across as quite a clever person.

What makes me laugh is as soon as the dislike for Fury dies down people who defend him seem to bring it back up!

Again it doesn't seem to hugely bother most people he's champion, just people have said they think hes a bit of a cnut. Nothing wrong with that. People thought Mayweather was a cnut but didn't dispute how good he was.
 
Oggmonster said:
In fairness to Fury he's not an idiot. He actually comes across as quite a clever person.

What makes me laugh is as soon as the dislike for Fury dies down people who defend him seem to bring it back up!

Again it doesn't seem to hugely bother most people he's champion, just people have said they think hes a bit of a cnut. Nothing wrong with that. People thought Mayweather was a cnut but didn't dispute how good he was.
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I think this is harsh. Misguided and naive most likely, but nothing to suggest an inherently, calculated, nasty man. People are far too quick to judge his character as if it were set in stone which says more about them than Fury.
 
RedFish said:
I think this is harsh. Misguided and naive most likely, but nothing to suggest an inherently, calculated, nasty man. People are far too quick to judge his character as if it were set in stone which says more about them than Fury.
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Cause people these days are fecking idiots who get offended at the slightest things and stick with an opinion they form from the least possible facts.
 
RedFish said:
I think this is harsh. Misguided and naive most likely, but nothing to suggest an inherently, calculated, nasty man. People are far too quick to judge his character as if it were set in stone which says more about them than Fury.
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Adcuth said:
Cause people these days are fecking idiots who get offended at the slightest things and stick with an opinion they form from the least possible facts.
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"There are only three things that need to be accomplished before the devil comes home: one of them is homosexuality being legal in countries, one of them is abortion and the other one’s paedophilia. Who would have thought in the 50s and 60s that those first two would be legalised?"

"A woman’s there to be loved, cook food and have some kids. Like Muslims have their ways, we have ours. There are girls who open their legs to every Tom, Dick and Harry. They are looked upon as rubbish. If I had a sister who did that, I’d hang her"

Yep, lovely guy.

People are allowed to not like him, why are you taking it so personally? (Especially Adcuth who calls everyone who doesn't like Fury an idiot.)

I'd imagine if it was Wlad coming out with these comments people on here would be fuming....imagine it iwas Steven Gerrard and I reckon 99% of this forum would be slating him.

I've said it countless times, Fury is entitled to his opinion, it's up to him but if he preaches it and comes out and says it people are equally allowed to comment on it and call him out on it. That's the downside of presenting your opinion in a public way....no different to commenting on an internet forum perhaps.
 
Oggmonster said:
"There are only three things that need to be accomplished before the devil comes home: one of them is homosexuality being legal in countries, one of them is abortion and the other one’s paedophilia. Who would have thought in the 50s and 60s that those first two would be legalised?"

"A woman’s there to be loved, cook food and have some kids. Like Muslims have their ways, we have ours. There are girls who open their legs to every Tom, Dick and Harry. They are looked upon as rubbish. If I had a sister who did that, I’d hang her"

Yep, lovely guy.

People are allowed to not like him, why are you taking it so personally? (Especially Adcuth who calls everyone who doesn't like Fury an idiot.)

I'd imagine if it was Wlad coming out with these comments people on here would be fuming....imagine it iwas Steven Gerrard and I reckon 99% of this forum would be slating him.

I've said it countless times, Fury is entitled to his opinion, it's up to him but if he preaches it and comes out and says it people are equally allowed to comment on it and call him out on it. That's the downside of presenting your opinion in a public way....no different to commenting on an internet forum perhaps.
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I'm actually not a fan of Fury myself, i cringe more than i laugh at him. I am however, still happy he won. My comment was aimed at society rather than Fury haters.

Plus, don't take ever interview you read as gospel. There is a thing called Journalism which is worse than any racist, bigot, homophobe etc
 
Oggmonster said:
"There are only three things that need to be accomplished before the devil comes home: one of them is homosexuality being legal in countries, one of them is abortion and the other one’s paedophilia. Who would have thought in the 50s and 60s that those first two would be legalised?"

"A woman’s there to be loved, cook food and have some kids. Like Muslims have their ways, we have ours. There are girls who open their legs to every Tom, Dick and Harry. They are looked upon as rubbish. If I had a sister who did that, I’d hang her"

Yep, lovely guy.d

People are allowed to not like him, why are you taking it so personally? (Especially Adcuth who calls everyone who doesn't like Fury an idiot.)

I'd imagine if it was Wlad coming out with these comments people on here would be fuming....imagine it iwas Steven Gerrard and I reckon 99% of this forum would be slating him.

I've said it countless times, Fury is entitled to his opinion, it's up to him but if he preaches it and comes out and says it people are equally allowed to comment on it and call him out on it. That's the downside of presenting your opinion in a public way....no different to commenting on an internet forum perhaps.
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Not taking it personally mate. I just want to look, for the good in people, as cheesy as that sounds. He doesn't come across to me as an individual who really understands what he is saying some of the time and I think it's too much to take everything he says as gospel and as a statement of intent. In some ways this makes him especially vulnerable - being the big mouth. that he undoubtedly is. There are plenty of sports people who do abhorent things or set a terrible example yet not everyone gets the same vilification. Do we really know if he holds those views? I'm not convinced that he is the disgusting person that people like to portray. I'd like people to give him a chance, and not try and kick him down. Public hatred like this sits uncomfortably with me, I'm not sure why, maybe because it can escalate into overt bullying. He has a family and children too. Maybe we should just debate it in slightly less damning tones.....Just my view
 
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Adcuth said:
I'm actually not a fan of Fury myself, i cringe more than i laugh at him. I am however, still happy he won. My comment was aimed at society rather than Fury haters.

Plus, don't take ever interview you read as gospel. There is a thing called Journalism which is worse than any racist, bigot, homophobe etc
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Journalism is hardly an evil thing. Correct reports are definitely not as bad as being openly homophobic/racist etc.

Fury sas them himself, he admits them. He IS entitled to an opinion but people will call him out on it when they don't agree.

I don't know the guy personally but from what I hear about him I find it hard to like or support him. I agree people make mistakes and they can improve. I'd hold no problem with him in the future if he came out and said it was stupid what he was saying but he probably won't and seems adamant he will stick to his views. To be fair to the guy he doesn't seem bothered what people think.

RedFish said:
Not taking it personally mate. I just want to look, for the good in people, as cheesy as that sounds. He doesn't come across to me as an individual who really understands what he is saying some of the time and I think he's too much to really take what he says as gospel and a statement of intent. In some ways this makes hime especially vulnerable - being a big mouth. There are plenty of sports people who do abhorent things or set a terrible example. Do we really know if he holds those views? I'm not convinced that he is the disgusting person that people like to portray. I'd like people to give him a chance, and not try and kick him down. Pubic hatred like this sits uncomfortably with me, I'm not sure why, maybe because it can escalate into overt bullying. He has a family and children too. Maybe we should just debate it in slightly less damning tones.....Just my view
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It's admirable to look for the guy in someone I agree. From anyone I know who's met or knows of Fury they do says he's a nice guy but I've never seen it myself. I personally don't think he's stupid or not aware of what he's saying, I think the opposite that he's highly intelligent and quite switched on. I think he says stuff for a reaction and usually gets it. The worst part about it for me is I think some of the stuff he does is quite funny I just can't find myself liking him.

You're right he has a family but then he should equally think of them as well....I genuinely don't think he's bothered by the abuse, I doubt his kids get much bullying fofr example, you'd have to be brave to bully the kid of the world heavyweight champion!

His problem is if he says it for a reaction then it's just stupid. It'd be like Mayweather claiming he beats women for a reaction really. It's not really the same as the public bragging boxers do.

The worst part about it is I quite welcome the change in the division as it was slowly dying, I just hope it's a short reign for Fury really.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Mike Tyson is a convicted rapist and he seems to be universally adored.

It is a funny old world.
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Again, not everyone is guilty of everything they are convicted of. I'm not saying he didn't do it either but it's much more clear cut and easier to judge someone on their own opinion which they admit to than something they deny ever doing. To reiterate I'm noit saying I think he's innocent (my opinion on it doesn't matter) but it's plausible people who like or respect him do.

On top of that since his fall from grace Tyson has been marketed brilliantly. If you watch interviews with him in isolation you'd think he was just some lovable idiot not a person who was defined as "The Baddest Man on the Planet." People in America in particular love a rags to riches to rags and back story as well which Tyson has done (albeit he's not as rich as he once was.) He also seems pretty open about admitting to past things and asks for forgiveness, something which Fury hasn't and probably won't do.

The world is full of hypocrites as well though and we're all probably guilty of it. Whether it be in boxing or any sport, United fans casually turn a blind eye to Rooney using the club for money but laugh ourselves stupid when Yaya Toure does it to City and say he's just after money for example. It happens, that's life.

Also why can't people judge Fury in isolation? They don't have to compare them to other people to dislike him. Whilst not a sound logic I'd imagine a lot of people under the age of 40 probably don't really remember Tyson as a convicted rapist due to the rest of his life. Similarly if Fury has a good run with the title I'd imagine kids who are about 6 or 7 now won't remember him as a homophobe or his other views, if he didn't mention stuff like that again and kept up his other antics like the Batman stuff I think he'd be remembered quite fondly in the future to be honest.

I don't think there's anything right about how Tyson is portrayed but that's just the society we live in. People don't go and watch Sean Penn films and constantly get reminded he held Madonna hostage and beat her up, the "greats" are often remembered with a revisionist history people will turn a blind eye to.

As for the rematch it's hard to call for me.
 
@Oggmonster

Tyson was the most brilliantly hyped boxer of all time. I was talking to a guy the other week at the suggestion who was incredulous at the idea that Tyson isn't the greatest boxer of all time.

He has a further documented history of taking liberties with females though. History that he doesn't deny.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
@Oggmonster

Tyson was the most brilliantly hyped boxer of all time. I was talking to a guy the other week at the suggestion who was incredulous at the idea that Tyson isn't the greatest boxer of all time.

He has a further documented history of taking liberties with females though. History that he doesn't deny.
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I agree. I think I've said previously in this thread the majority of big fights Tyson had he didn't win, arguably his biggest wins were either the ones vs Bruno or his win vs. Spinks. The difference between him and most others though is the brutality of it all. He's not the best ever but he's definitely up there with the most exciting, he was box office. People call the likes of Fury, Wlad etc dull but that could never be said for Tyson. It's why people are so excited for Joshua, his fights have a similar level of excitement in the sense they could end at any time. If he keeps winning Hearn really will be able to market him as a huge box office draw.

Re the second point you're right he does. He mostly talks about stuff that I'd imagine most young male celebrities do though, use money and fame to impress women into the bedroom. He's spoken about hiring prostitutes etc as well but then there's a difference between those and rape. I have no doubt Mike Tyson is (or was) at that time of his life a troubled individual but he does seem to have made an effort to repay for past errors. Again, I don't disagree it's slightly hypocritical.
 
Oggmonster said:
Re the second point you're right he does. He mostly talks about stuff that I'd imagine most young male celebrities do though, use money and fame to impress women into the bedroom. He's spoken about hiring prostitutes etc as well but then there's a difference between those and rape. I have no doubt Mike Tyson is (or was) at that time of his life a troubled individual but he does seem to have made an effort to repay for past errors. Again, I don't disagree it's slightly hypocritical.
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Sorry but as much as I like Tyson the boxer, its a bit more complicated than just a few hired prostitutes, If you look at the reason for him being expelled from school as a teen, the reason why Teddy Atlas felt the need to put a gun to his head and his reported attitude and behavior during the week of the rape incident in question where he was at a Miss Black America award show, then you build up a picture of a guy who was a serial abuser of woman - mostly at times sexually - and a guy who's past record before the rape in question tells you that he had no issue with the idea of trying to take advantage of women when it was clear consent was not being given.

I don't think anybody given the evidence and past behavior could argue that there might have been a miscarriage of justice during his rape trial. I think all evidence points to the fact that they got the conviction right. Robin Givens his ex-wife with him sitting beside her told the whole of America during an interview that he hit her on more than a few occasions during their marriage and he didn't make any effort to deny it.
 
The Anthony Joshua - Dillian Whyte face off interview thing (The Gloves Are Off) is on Sky Sports 1 in 5 mins.
 
BAMSOLA said:
Sorry but as much as I like Tyson the boxer, its a bit more complicated than just a few hired prostitutes, If you look at the reason for him being expelled from school as a teen, the reason why Teddy Atlas felt the need to put a gun to his head and his reported attitude and behavior during the week of the rape incident in question where he was at a Miss Black America award show, then you build up a picture of a guy who was a serial abuser of woman - mostly at times sexually - and a guy who's past record before the rape in question tells you that he had no issue with the idea of trying to take advantage of women when it was clear consent was not being given.

I don't think anybody given the evidence and past behavior could argue that there might have been a miscarriage of justice during his rape trial. I think all evidence points to the fact that they got the conviction right. Robin Givens his ex-wife with him sitting beside her told the whole of America during an interview that he hit her on more than a few occasions during their marriage and he didn't make any effort to deny it.
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Yep fair comments, again I'm not saying he didn't do it but stuff like rape especially will always divide opinion, cases like that always have. I'm no expert though far from it and wouldn't particularly like to say if he's innocent or guilty, I simply don't know enough.

Boxing fans though will always have a soft spot for him, look at the video FC Ronaldo posted and it's clear why, the guy was entertainment. Fans of The Beatles don't comment on them and say "yeah they're good except John Lennon kicking the shit out his wife", fans of Sean Penn don't say "I liked Mystic River especially the woman torturer Sean Penn." HOllywood and celebrity lifestyle is the most fecked up thing really, people are quick to forget and everyone is guilty of it to some extent unfortunately.

If anyones interested "The Gloves Are Off" with Joshua and Whyte it on in 5 minutes on SS1, usually quite ntertaining.
 
Seems like one of the venues Fury wants the rematch is Croke Park. Croke Park and Old Trafford are his priorities. Most likely it'll end up in the MEN Arena. :rolleyes:
 
Flamingo Purple said:
Not an expert in boxing, so just interested whether Dillian Whyte has a serious chance against Joshua?
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Whyte beat Joshua in the amateurs and dropped him in the fight. Joshua only boxed four years as an amatuer before winning the Olympic gold. A lot has changed since that fight. The history makes it a little more interesting but I expect AJ to stop him early to mid rounds.
 
Flamingo Purple said:
Not an expert in boxing, so just interested whether Dillian Whyte has a serious chance against Joshua?
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NAh, he's probably up there with the best he's fought but he's still nowhere near his level. As @Classical Mechanic says there's history there but I can't see it lasting long myself, I reckon at most 4 rounds.

RedFish said:
'fights like a girl' -- Better be careful Joshua, they'll be writing that one down
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:lol::lol: some of the trash talk was terrible. Funny to watch though, I'm out for the fight night so don't have to worry about paying for it, will be watching though, stuff like this does always help even when they're as cringing as that one!

Got to be said I do love Jonny Nelson though, he's brilliant to watch, makes most Sky boxing programmes fo me!
 
Fury-Wlad did strong numbers over on HBO. 1mil on the live afternoon viewing and then another 700k on the evening replay.
 
Is anybody really going to pay to see Joshua vs Whyte?

Joshua is just starting out, and most of the general public wouldn't have a clue who Whyte is! Strange decision to put this on Box Office.
 
Another PPV event on Sky...

Maybe this is a bit naive but for a boxer starting out on his career path, would it not be a wise move to sign with anyone else but matchroom and focus on getting onto ITV or any free TV channel in order to get wider exposer, build a larger fan base and then once you're established you can look for a big pay day on Sky & HBO?

I know Frampton was on ITV for a while and of course the legendary Eubank Benn fights. My first memories of boxing were those two getting it on. If they were on a PPV card then it wouldn't have been something I'd have seen.
 
Bill.s.preston said:
Is anybody really going to pay to see Joshua vs Whyte?

Joshua is just starting out, and most of the general public wouldn't have a clue who Whyte is! Strange decision to put this on Box Office.
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To be fair people said the same about the Kell Brook vs. Frankie Gavin fight and it turnedout to be one of the cards of the year.

It won't do brilliant numbers but I think it will do ok, it's being promoted quite well and has generated some interest. They'll play it up as soon huge challenge because of past events involving the 2 when in reality it probasbly won't be close.

Thisistheone said:
Another PPV event on Sky...

Maybe this is a bit naive but for a boxer starting out on his career path, would it not be a wise move to sign with anyone else but matchroom and focus on getting onto ITV or any free TV channel in order to get wider exposer, build a larger fan base and then once you're established you can look for a big pay day on Sky & HBO?

I know Frampton was on ITV for a while and of course the legendary Eubank Benn fights. My first memories of boxing were those two getting it on. If they were on a PPV card then it wouldn't have been something I'd have seen.
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I'd guess Hearn is the top payer in terms of UK Promoters, he's got a successful stable of fighters there and all will be making decent money. He's got a monopoly on Sky Sports and Sky Box Office.
 
No chance of me paying to watch that fight.
 
Still, I'll try listen on the radio, and hopefully Whyte knocks him into next month.
 
Bill.s.preston said:
Is anybody really going to pay to see Joshua vs Whyte?

Joshua is just starting out, and most of the general public wouldn't have a clue who Whyte is! Strange decision to put this on Box Office.
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I can't stand it but it sold out the o2 in like four hours ffs.
 
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