Good post that CLK.
The RedCafe Boxing Thread
- Thread starter CLK_FPC
- Start date
That is almost exactly what I said a few posts up, so yeah I agree.
Khan is too cocky for his level of ability. He's been embarrassed twice now by supposedly poorer fighters. The only reason I can see for him being a box office draw with Brits is that many of them enjoy seeing him get beat. That's certainly the feedback coming out today at any rate.
Khan has got incredible ability, he's not a poor fighter by any means. Before that hook he was too fast for Garcia, but one punch can change a fight especially with Garcias power.
I said before the fight his head always goes in the ring, ridiculous how macho he tries to be by geting dragged into an open fight. So fecking stupid in the 4th, baiting Garcia and inviting him forward, he should have learned by now and cut that shit out, tied up and just tried to survive to the 5th.
Don't agree he has a bad chin in the slightest, it's actually very good, but the problem is that he just has no defence whatsoever and that he lacks the mentality/know how to survive a round.
Such a shame that he got caught because up to that point he was a class above, I still think he's a better fighter than Garcia but he needs to change his approach to fights and learn some defence.
I said before the fight his head always goes in the ring, ridiculous how macho he tries to be by geting dragged into an open fight. So fecking stupid in the 4th, baiting Garcia and inviting him forward, he should have learned by now and cut that shit out, tied up and just tried to survive to the 5th.
Don't agree he has a bad chin in the slightest, it's actually very good, but the problem is that he just has no defence whatsoever and that he lacks the mentality/know how to survive a round.
Such a shame that he got caught because up to that point he was a class above, I still think he's a better fighter than Garcia but he needs to change his approach to fights and learn some defence.
As people have said above, I'm not buying all this Khan has no chin nonsense. He just has a shocking defense. I'm also not convinced that his start in this match was all that good; yeah, he was putting some combinations together, but he wasn't connecting very much, and Garcia was still playing his game perfectly.
I enjoyed the fight though.
I enjoyed the fight though.
Khan's chin cannot stand up to the bigger punchers, saying he has no chin is a little extreme but he has chin issues against punchers and thus he needs a more conservative style. That punch from Garcia last night was not even on the chin, it landed round the side of the ear.
If you think back to the Kotelnik fight, he boxed superbly that night and took a wide points decision. He boxed on the outside and was on the move constantly. It seems that since that fight he has got gradually more confident in his chin, despite being in serious trouble against Maidana and now he has paid the price.
I think perhaps the bigger problem is the state he gets into after taking a big punch, his legs turn to jelly and it seems to take him a very long time to get his senses back.
I don't think that this is the major disaster that some people are making out. He has shown against Kotelnik that he can box evasively and effectively, he just needs to land on earth again and get a bit of humility and accept his vulnerabilities. Richard Shafaer has already said that he has a number of good fights for him, I think the best would be moving up to welterweight and fighting Paulie Malinaggi who recently picked up a version of the welterweight title and has scant chance of beating Khan.
Future welter champ James Page.
Sharmba Mitchell
Angel Manfredy
Cesar Bazan
Mendy
got robbed twice against Castillo.
Etc.
He was no undeserving champion in fact he was in the Ring top ten pound for pound fighters for quite a while.
He is undeserving to be called a champion you are either lineal champion or you are not.
Who's lineal nowadays?
Right behind the ears are one of the best spots to hit if you want to knock someone out.
Wladmir Klitscko is the lineal chap at Heavyweight.
Yoan Pablo Hernandez is the lineal champ at Cruiserweight.
Chad Dawson is the lineal champ at Light Heavyweight.
Andre Ward is the lineal champ at Super Middleweight.
Sergio Martinez is the lineal champ at Middleweight.
Danny Garcia is the lineal champ at Junior Welterweight.
Sonny Boy Jaro is the lineal champ at Flyweight.
This is a list of active or recently retired fighters who have held a lineal crown.
Manny Pacquiao
Floyd Mayweather
Juan Manuel Marquez
James Toney
David Haye
Roy Jones Junior
Joe Calzaghe
Tim Bradley
Oscar De La Hoya
Ricky Hatton
Bernard Hopkins
Winky Wright
Jermain Taylor
Kelly Pavlik
Vitali Klitsckho
Shane Mosley
Marco Antonio Barrea
Diego Corrales
Israel Vasquez
Rafael Marquez
Pongsaklek Wonjongkam
Ivan Claderon
Funnily enough it is generally the best, as you would expect by definition. The only modern great that I can think of who hasn't held one is Erik Morales but he was operating in a truly stacked division.
Khan only has himself to blame for the defeat. Garcia was only going to win the fight one way, and Khan played right into his hands.
He'd have had a relatively easy night's work if he'd have just boxed at range, worked behind the jab for the first half of the fight, and gradually broken Garcia down, IMO. Instead, he went in there headhunting and loading up on the right hand as soon as the opening bell sounded.
He really needs to learn how to buy time when he's hurt, too. I don't think I've ever seen him effectively tie an opponent up, all he knows how to do is push them away or grab the back of their neck until the ref steps in. Even worse is his habit of standing his ground and trading shots when his legs are all over the place. I dunno whether it's deliberate (the machismo thing again) or just his instinctive reaction, but it really needs coaching out of him.
He's a talented guy, and I'm sure he'll be back, but I'm not sure if that 'elite' tag his handlers have been trying to cultivate will ever return.
He'd have had a relatively easy night's work if he'd have just boxed at range, worked behind the jab for the first half of the fight, and gradually broken Garcia down, IMO. Instead, he went in there headhunting and loading up on the right hand as soon as the opening bell sounded.
He really needs to learn how to buy time when he's hurt, too. I don't think I've ever seen him effectively tie an opponent up, all he knows how to do is push them away or grab the back of their neck until the ref steps in. Even worse is his habit of standing his ground and trading shots when his legs are all over the place. I dunno whether it's deliberate (the machismo thing again) or just his instinctive reaction, but it really needs coaching out of him.
He's a talented guy, and I'm sure he'll be back, but I'm not sure if that 'elite' tag his handlers have been trying to cultivate will ever return.
I watched the damaging shot again and his hands were criminally low. I think if he boxes like he did against Kotelnik then most fighters are going to find it hard to beat him but he seems to want to go macho to prove a point. For me he can only progess if he accepts his weaknesses and focuses on his strengths.
I still think that the Mayweather fight is interesting if Khan can get a couple of decent wins under his belt. I think that Khan provides a much more interesting test for Mayweather than Ortiz ever did. Remember how everyone had written Ortiz off until he beat the overrated HBO champion Berto? The fans and press are reactionary and they were all high on Ortiz again after that fight. PBF, being PBF, saw a mediocre fighter (at the top level) being hyped and made the fight knowing that he had a decent pay day and a scant chance of losing. If Khan moves up to welterweight next and takes Malignaggi's title (Paulie is a Golden Boy fighter) and then beats a guy like Alexander (sadly Bradley is a Top Rank fighter as he is tailor made for Khan) then that fight is on again.
When Castillo beat him in 2000 (though you say it was a robbery) Johnston was The Ring number 1 ranked lightweight, there was no lineal champion at that time. Johnston also made his only appearance in the annual Ring P4P list in 1999, ranked 10th.
To address my original point rather than continue debating this aside: I was guilty of downplaying Johnston's quality to suit my argument but my point was, just because Khan has two legitimate defeats does not mean that he can't come back and operate at the top level. People seem to think that Mayweather is invincible when he is clearly not. That he lost against Castillo, in his prime, (a less than great fighter with four losses his record at that point) in the eyes of one judge and many fans who watched the fight is clear proof that things are never cut and dry in boxing. It is frustrating that most fight fans refuse to appreciate that styles make fights, Khan is always going to be on the edge against punchers but if he sticks to his strengths then he is going to be a tough ask for anyone. He won't ever be a legend in the ilk of PBF, Bernard Hopkin's or Manny Pacquiao but I feel that he is far from finished at the top level and the PBF fight still interests me.
So for you the lineal champion is the same as the ring mag champion?
The Ring Magazine champ has always been the standard for the lineal champ since the multiple versions of the World Championships came into play!
So in the 90's there was no lineal champions since the ring never named any champions during that decade they only restarted doing that championship policy in 2002.
Agree with CLK. Would really like this kid to shine, but I just dont see why hes not disciplined enough to stick with the game plan :S
It appears that you have a point Ric!
However, Johnston would not have been classed as the lineal champ even if they were handing them out because he only held one belt and he did not win it off the No 1 ranked fighter so my point still stands. It appears that he only became the no 1 ranked Lightweight as Shane Mosley moved up a division. This aside has been pointless though as overall point is that the Khan - Mayweather fight can still happen.
But... but... he's got no chin!
Whilst there were no lineal champions there are fighters that were generally accepted as the best in their division, for example Jones at 175.
Of course this is subjective but when the two best welters go head to head like when Oscar fought Tito, it's fair to say that in winning (he didn't win) Tito announced himself as the best welterweight in the world.
Khan has chin issues, fighters like Froch can eat punishment like that whereas Khan hits the deck like a sack of potatoes and then chicken dances for the next 5 minutes.
He doesn't protect his chin well enough but that doesn't detract from his chin issues.
Khan apparently 'reviewing' his relationship with Freddie.
"I want someone who is with me all the way through, like my conditioner Ruben Tabares is."
Anyone think Roach is dropping him? Or has this come from Khan?
"I want someone who is with me all the way through, like my conditioner Ruben Tabares is."
Anyone think Roach is dropping him? Or has this come from Khan?
Sounds like he is blaming the wrong thing doesn't it. Being with Freddie Roach more often is not going to make him keep his hands up and stop standing in front of fighters.
Yeah very true, it's especially ridiculous given the way he's known to ignore what his trainer tells him, by getting dragged into a toe to toe fight instead of staying on the outside like he's told.
I wonder if Roach has decided to drop him though and Khan is just saving face. Given that Roach has other fighters under him he might think Khan's chances have passed? Would be a terrible signal if that's the case, but I am probably just reading too much into it.
I wonder if Roach has decided to drop him though and Khan is just saving face. Given that Roach has other fighters under him he might think Khan's chances have passed? Would be a terrible signal if that's the case, but I am probably just reading too much into it.
I think he would be better off with Manny Steward, remember Wladmir Klitshko was similar in his early days but no one has been able to test that chin for years now. Wladmir has the humility to accept that he can't go macho with punchers. I just wonder if Khan will ever be able to do the same.
I'm not saying his chin is solid but it's miles better than some like to make out. When he was dominating the fight during round 1+2 he took a number of right hooks on the chin and shook them off. He took a lot of heavy shots in the Petersen fight too.
The problem seems to be when one of the big shots does floor him he can't seem to recover from it.
Roach should tell Khan to feck off. In the sparring, Khan was getting hit far too much and it was clear he was wild and didn't have good defence. His corner told him to box sensibly to which he responded along the lines 'that's boring'.
Khan should not blame Roach or the anyone else for this loss. His own attitude is very poor and he is too cocky for his own good.
feck I forgot about that, what an idiot. I like Khan to be honest and he is an entertaining fighter, but he just needs to learn some defence. I wached the fight again before and Garcia was just ridiculously wild at times. He is just a puncher, all he would do is set his feet and counter Khans faster shots with really wild/wide hooks. In the first two rounds he was missing so much with giant shots that were sailing so far past Khans head. And more importantly, he was only a threat when Khan went on a sustained two/three punch offensive, because it gave him time to counter with his huge hooks, like the one that knocked him down the first and third times.
Garcia obviously has wayyy more power than Khan, but it isnt even close who is the better technician, or boxer overall. I don't want to be too critical of him but he was literally just a slugger with a good defence who knew how to counter punch. He never utilised the jab once, never got off any combinations except to the body in round three when Khan was covering up. All night he was just gonna be looking for those big shots. After the first two rounds the warning were there that if Garcia did connect, it would be a potentially match changing punch, which it obviously was.
They should have just stayed completely on the outside and got in and out with one punch, maybe two punch combinations at most. Give him no time to counter, or rather, move away before he has time to get his wide hooks around. When Garcia tried to initiate attacks in the first three, he looked extremely slow and wasnt a threat, especially if Khan already had his gloves up it was easy for him to block these massive shots. But when he attacked and had his hands down/was popping his own shots off, he left his head exposed and eventually was caught.
He also should have tried more feints. Garcia couldn't have sustained many rounds of letting off huge shots without connecting, he would have gotten nackered.
Broner missed his weight... He'll piss it all away if he isn't careful. Supremely talented but that ego 
Dunno if anyone caught it but George Groves was in a peach of a fight last night. Youtube it if you don't have BoxNation
Really like the look of Anthony Ogogo at the Olympics. He'll probably lose this fight against the World #1 and he's perhaps been a little over excited but his technique looks good.
He'll go pro I reckon.
EDIT: He only went and beat him! Get in lad.
He'll go pro I reckon.
EDIT: He only went and beat him! Get in lad.
Was at the Anthony Joshua/Savon fight last night, atmosphere for the whole session was amazing!
down by 3, hopefully can pull back!
Anybody got an idea of future tv rights for sky or boxnation?
Barroquin vs Rigondeaux
Canelo vs Lopez
Chavez jr vs Martinez
All on 15/16 September ...ie my birthday weekend...though boxnation never update their live fights page and neither do sky :/
Barroquin vs Rigondeaux
Canelo vs Lopez
Chavez jr vs Martinez
All on 15/16 September ...ie my birthday weekend...though boxnation never update their live fights page and neither do sky :/
Hope this isn't true, I just don't see anyway back for Hatton as a top level fighter, Although if he did make a comeback I would love to be proven wrong
Would be hilarious if he came back, he'd get demolished.
By Malignaggi? Lol piss off
By anybody.
He's an overweight coke addict who hasn't boxed in three years.
He's an overweight coke addict who hasn't boxed in three years.
He's losing/lost tons of weight and isn't addicted to coke but 1/3 isn't bad