Dead.Man.Walking
The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked
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Is he really a dead man walking? This is a test of character for both him and us. He's never really faced these problems, apart from when it went wrong towards the end at Chelsea, and it isn't going to do him any harm to face the flak and have it rough.
Let's see what he's got in his locker and how he can steer the good ship Manchester United through choppy seas.
Let's see what he's got in his locker and how he can steer the good ship Manchester United through choppy seas.
He had a purple patch last season... Not a whole lot more since.
His ‘purple patch’ lasted longer than Shaw’s current purple patch though, yet he has still included him.
The whole set up from owners to Woodward to the coaching to the players is just one big archaic mess, changing the manager for whoever will not make much difference tbh when he gets overruled on transfers by the owners unless the club loses income by not qualifying for the champions league, that scenario as we have already seen forces the owners into having to spend, very much a case of wash, rinse and repeat!
So why wait then? Give a new manager the rest of the season to settle in, then we go again.
Because it's been proven on multiple occasions that our club is reactive and not proactive. We wait for things to implode before doing anything about it. One of these days lessons will be learnt from all the mistakes we've made and we;ll actually start to make real progression.
Not sure if I 100% agree.
You could just argue that our club doesn’t make knee jerk decisions.
How do you know that the board aren’t behind Mourinho and still believe in him?
How do you know that we haven’t already scoped out a new manager who has agreed to join at the end of the season? E.g Zidane.
For you to say it’s ‘proven’ that we are reactive, isn’t a fair assessment IMO.
Almost every "manager" gets overruled on transfers by his superiors, that's the worst argument that the caf repeats it's as if people have no idea about what happens in football. Most clubs have head coaches, they have limited say on transfers.
Woodward made a point to state that our social media following is at its highest, since they began recording such information.
He also pointed out that our profits/revenue are at their highest.
The share price is also near its all time high.
Under Mourinho all these things have been achieved and these facts contradict everything you have said.
Sacking Jose is not going to be a magic bullet. I know that many want a new toy to play with, but you need to understand that when that new toy fails in 2 years, you'll get bored of that toy and want him replaced, too.
Hiring a manager, then firing him and hitting the reset button every 2-3 years is a strategy that has not served us well. It works for Chelsea....but not for us.
Pep hasn't been overruled. He said he wanted to buy many full backs. His bosses said, "okay". He said that he wanted to buy a new GK...and when that GK failed, he wanted another. His bosses said, "okay".
What about Klopp? He hasn't. He said that he wanted the most expensive defender in the World. The LFC owners said, "okay" and got him Van Dyke. He said he wants a new GK, twice. And the LFC owners said, "okay".
And the above is just for 2 clubs. I am sure that the same went on at other clubs, where the manager got the players he asked for, as long as they could afford them. Chelsea are probably the exception.
So, what did Jose get this Summer?
Jose: "I need a new CB. Our CBs aren't good enough." His boss said, "Erm. Our defenders are good enough." Jose said, " I want a new RW. Willian is good, I know what he can do". His boss said, "erm, err, no".
This season was supposed to be the season we pushed for the title, after making progress the previous 2 years. Woodward scuppered that plan.
Okay. Fair enough. But who else is out there who can do better? Give me 2 attainable targets.
Even the great Sir Alex didn't always get his preferred targets may be I am not remembering things correctly but I think pre Glazers era I believe United CEO actually went on the record and said Sir Alex need to sell before buying so this notion that the manager would always gets his wish is simply not true.
Money wise I agree with you, but if that is the benchmark then eventually it's unsustainable long term without titles and champions leagues. Whether mourinho can deliver this long term and whether he will stay long term is debatable. I couldn't say if another manager could deliver this either of course
The thing is maybe Woody saw the players he has bought in and none of them are performing good enough. Pep has dramatically improved city in 2 seasons and klopp has bought players who have improved Liverpool. If the players we had already bought under mourinho had improved through coaching then maybe he wouldnt have had to go for a third in 2 years
Shamelessly stolen from:
https://www.quora.com/If-Manchester...an-Balasubramanian-1?share=519f0fee&srid=U4Lx
(if the mods thinks posting links is inappropriate pls delete this)
https://www.quora.com/If-Manchester...an-Balasubramanian-1?share=519f0fee&srid=U4Lx
(if the mods thinks posting links is inappropriate pls delete this)
We don't even know what happened in the summer. It's just gossip along with Mourinho moaning like a child in press conferences. So I don't know why you're stating things like this as facts. You're literally listing out imaginary conversation you've made up in your head.
Woodward isn't the reason we're playing like this. And frankly the only issue I have with him currently is that he should have sacked Mourinho in the summer as I (and many others) seen this season coming a mile off.
Mourinho said he wanted a CM, he got the most expensive CM in the world. He asked for a striker, he got the most expensive striker in PL history. He asked for an other midfielder, he got an expensive DM, he asked for an other CM he got one, he asked for a CB he got it, he asked for an other CB he got it too, he asked for a right back he got it, he asked for a new left winger he got it before City.
Now, Guardiola didn't get Sanchez, he didn't get Jorginho the club didn't blindly paid.
He also inherited a massively shite squad in comparison to Pep. And you're assuming he got his first choices across the board. Wilian Perisic and Alderweireld are all key parts to the cog he was reportedly denied to.
He's lost the dressing room for me.
Pogba's comments is a player undermining his manager, yet he's not wrong, he's saying what us, other fans and our players (probably) are thinking
I think he's lost Woodwards confidence in the summer. He targeted aging players with high fee's, not something Woodward wanted to sanction, and Mourinho happily threw him under the bus for it.
We're a massive, club, and players want to come here, but I don't think it'll happen under Mourinho.
We've been linked with Frenkie, who is also linked with big clubs. Why would he want to play here, under this football for example.
Same reason Pogba has been so vocal. He clearly doesn't want to play under this manager anymore.
The longer we keep him, the further we'll be set back
Pogba's comments is a player undermining his manager, yet he's not wrong, he's saying what us, other fans and our players (probably) are thinking
I think he's lost Woodwards confidence in the summer. He targeted aging players with high fee's, not something Woodward wanted to sanction, and Mourinho happily threw him under the bus for it.
We're a massive, club, and players want to come here, but I don't think it'll happen under Mourinho.
We've been linked with Frenkie, who is also linked with big clubs. Why would he want to play here, under this football for example.
Same reason Pogba has been so vocal. He clearly doesn't want to play under this manager anymore.
The longer we keep him, the further we'll be set back
That only finished 1 position below the other in the league, only by goal difference.
Of course this fact is routinely dismissed with various excuses.
But if you apply some common sense you know that while City may have had a few better players than United - to describe the latter squad as shite is just ridiculous.
You are the one assuming, I haven't talked about first choices because I have no idea but that's true for the other managers too, you don't know who were their first choices. I also don't care about Pep's squad, I haven't made any comparison.
Funnily enough, these arguments make LVG look very good.
It was shite. Pelligrini vs LVG is another matter and unrelated to the point. You take city's squad that Pep inherited vs Mourinho's United squad and the latter got a pile of wank. Blind at cb, no midfield whatsoever, no established striker and no wingers outside Martial.
He had to flog out the deadweight that obviously wouldn't fit his system. Depay, Schneiderlin Schweinstiger, Rooney, Blind, etc. All across the board, literally rip up the side and start again.
Pep just had to work on the defence because the general quality of players he had to work with was far better.
Well they would just argue it was his bad transfers so he deserved to go...
But yeah, they should probably admit he did well to finish 4th and 5th with such a collection of pub players (even if he bought them) going by that logic.
(spoiler: they wouldn't)It doesn't take much of an assumption to point to the players I did. It was widely reported by credible journalists that he wanted them. And alas, he didn't.
What a load of rubbish. We can't even build a meaningful attack when we need a winner against the likes of Wolves. That's not Woodward's fault. We might not even get top 4 this season let alone challenging for the league. That's not good enough after almost 400 million pounds spent and in the 3rd season. Woodward has his flaws and isn't blameless either but we aren't in this position because we failed to sign Willian or a centreback.
It is proven because all the evidence we have proves it.
Cracking rebuttal. This is a pointless exchange I fear.
I will say that you highlighting Blind at centre-back shows the type of narrow-minded agenda you have.
That's not what you said, you said that I assumed that he had his first choices which is not something that I did for him nor for the other managers, since my point was that managers are overruled all the time.
It says he organises the defence, if he is having trouble doing that, then maybe the defence or some components of it are not very good. He has said this and sometimes transfers are hit and miss. You do not always sign the right player first time.
The problem I see is that it was not that he wanted players, but who he wanted. Ed wanted younger and more marketable players. That word marketable is really sticking in my throat. It should all be about who are the right players.
He was very good at CB for us
The comparison shouldn't be Jose vs Pep and the squads they inherited tbh.
It should be Jose vs Klopp and the squads they inherited and the money spent.
It should be Jose vs Klopp and the squads they inherited and the money spent.
Oh Christ no. Another dozen pages arguing about net spend. Feck that.
I was more thinking about this talk about squads inherited. I'm sure Jose inherited a better squad than Klopp.... and will likely finished behind him this season
But yes net spend
Most of the comparisons are not important anyway, its clear that most of the players brought into the club are underperforming, its clear as a team United are underperforming and its clear that since January 2018 as a team United have been in regression.
Reality Check.
1. We have played 6 games and our Goal difference is a big fat O.
2. City's goal difference is 16 and Liverpool are 12 with Chelsea at 10.
3. Now is this what we are paying our hard earned money to see for this season.
4. Fans are entitled to their say, and I feel Mourinho and his football is outdated
5. We should bring someone in Now, before it is too late, or we ain't going to finish in top 4.
1. We have played 6 games and our Goal difference is a big fat O.
2. City's goal difference is 16 and Liverpool are 12 with Chelsea at 10.
3. Now is this what we are paying our hard earned money to see for this season.
4. Fans are entitled to their say, and I feel Mourinho and his football is outdated
5. We should bring someone in Now, before it is too late, or we ain't going to finish in top 4.
Not sure we will do No. 5. If we are miles out at Christmas it could happen then, but who apart from Zidane could we get and I am not sure he is a miracle worker. We might have to wait until the summer and that could depend on if he gets the Top 4.
I don't know what to think, the Inter part makes it very difficult to take it seriously. People seem to have missed who was in that Inter team, Milito joined Inter during the last season, the previous one Inter had Ibrahimovic, Crespo and Adriano, in midfield he had Vieira, Stankovic, Cambiasso, in defense Samuel, Maicon, Cordoba, Zanetti and they had one of the best goalkeeper in Europe in Julio Cesar.
The second season saw them bring Eto'o in exchange of Ibrahimovic, a proven goalscorer in Milito, Sneijder, Thiago Motta and Lucio, not only he had world beaters but he also had players that were able to elevate their game further.
Edit: And Milito was 30 years old, he was always going to decline which he didn't do immediately.
He might not have to be. Maybe it's just time to try a good manager who has a decent playing history (in Zidane's case both of these requirements are underselling him).
The more I read about managers like Mourinho (Benitez is another example) - I just don't know how players don't get tired of him and his approach. It can't be enjoyable. Maybe it wouldn't hurt to have a manager that the players can relate to a bit (and vice versa).
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