The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

Is Mourinho’s time as United manager up?

  • Yes

    Votes: 2,296 77.1%

  • No

    Votes: 293 9.8%

  • Not yet - needs more time to see if he can turn it around

    Votes: 388 13.0%
  • Total voters
    2,977
Status
Not open for further replies.
Only one way this is ending, and it's with Mourinho leaving, will obviously fully back him till it happens, but we should be stuffing muck like Wolves at home without even a thought.

If you ain't winning trophies (uefa and league cup was 2 years ago) then the football has to at least entertain or look like its heading somewhere with a style of play which we cannot say is happening , seems a bit knee jerk but this season may as well be written off, very reminiscent of LVG's second year but did not expect us to be out of the title race so early, and we have had a piss easy start. It's becoming an effort to actually watch us.

Needs a 5 year plan where we concentrate on a style of play from the youth teams up to starting 11 and then proper trophies (sorry for sounding like Souness) at the end of that.

Sad thing is the owners don't care, we will be in and around top 6 for years to come maybe with odd smaller trophy unless they go .
 
The long ball stuff on Saturday was so depressing. What have we become?

It’s inevitable that we end up sacking him so let’s just get on with it. He will lose the OT crowd very quickly with displays like that. The defeat to Spurs was better than Saturday because at least that day the team tried to play some football. Saturday was deplorable stuff.
 
Janson said:
I've never heard of "conversation rates" but you're saying that's the only difference between the two seasons? You don't realise how simplistic this view is? You're disregarding every other aspect in which we might have been different.

You're basing your argument about Herrera being better because he had more tackles, I don't know what more to say to that.

Blind being better than anything we have now is your opinion, doesn't make it fact. Imo, we wouldn't be any better or worse of with him.
Click to expand...

There are other factors* but our chance conversion rate was the biggest one. We went from missing the most big chances out of any team in the league to missing significantly less than all our rivals for the top 4. For example in 16/17 we missed 15 more big chances than Liverpool, in 17/18 they missed 19 more than us. Pretending that such a huge change in our ability to actually get the ball into the back of the net was not the major reason for our higher league position is ridiculous.

*second biggest would be that in 16/17 we played weakened teams in the final rounds of league fixtures to focus on the EL.

Herrera was better than Matic because of his better performances. Him making more tackles was just one facet of that, I also mentioned that he made more interceptions, that he created more chances, that his greater mobility allowed him to be a better partner for Pogba etc. There's no point asking me why Mourinho replaced him if he was so good. I don't know anymore than I know why he replaced a brilliantly in form Martial with Sanchez but has been content with our dysfunctional right wing for years. I also don't know why he saw Lingard produce the form of his life as a #10 and now insists on playing him as a winger. I don't know why he is so convinced that long balls to Fellaini is the only permissible plan B nor do I know why he doesn't even attempt to have a plan A. I don't know why he doesn't get rid of deadwood like Jones and Darmian. I don't know why he has made so many public attacks on our own players. I don't know why he complains and moans all the time. I could go on. He does a lot of inexplicable things.

As for Blind. Well given that our current 'upgrade' on Blind is Lindelof, a player with almost no strengths and a plethora of weaknesses I am confident in my opinion that we would be better off with Blind, especially as we had the joint best defensive record in the league the season he and Smalling were our CB partnership. Regardless, the fact that even you admit we wouldn't be worse off with him in the team is damning given that Mourinho has spent £60m on 'upgrading' our CBs since taking over.
 
BrianMcClair'sBarnet said:
So who is the right guy ?
Click to expand...

That's the thing, No one really stands out. Jardim would be my choice I think, But Woodward is all about the big names and I can see why the appeal of playing for Zidane would work perfectly for him in terms of bringing new players in. My concern with Zidane is that he inherited a great squad at Madrid full of world class players, whereas here he has alot of work to do. Plus his League form was a bit sketchy, he seems more of a 'cup' manager a bit like a Benitez (dare I say it). Jardim would be more suited to building a squad IMO.
 
JoaquinJoaquin said:
That's the thing, No one really stands out. Jardim would be my choice I think, But Woodward is all about the big names and I can see why the appeal of playing for Zidane would work perfectly for him in terms of bringing new players in. My concern with Zidane is that he inherited a great squad at Madrid full of world class players, whereas here he has alot of work to do. Plus his League form was a bit sketchy, he seems more of a 'cup' manager a bit like a Benitez (dare I say it). Jardim would be more suited to building a squad IMO.
Click to expand...

Interesting.
Jardim also has experience working under a DOF.
 
The big worry is that we're already bottom of the Big 6 mini-league and we've got to overhaul at least two of them to get top 4. I'd expect Arsenal to be as soft as ever, but what about the rest? The weakest starters have been Spurs and they beat us 3-0 at OT.

I'd be happy for us to get rid of Mourinho but where would that leave us? The stand-out candidates (Jardim, Pochettino) wouldn't leave their current jobs to join us and there's no guarantee Zidane would hit the ground running. When he took the Real Madrid job mid-season he was already at the club and he inherited a top side. There's no guarantee it would be as smooth for him at United, particularly as he doesn't even speak the language fluently.

I think we need to give Mourinho the season and part ways in May. It's clear he's not a good fit for us but, if we were going to get rid, we should have done it in the summer. Let's be fair and constructive towards the team until then.
 
JohnnyKills said:
I think we need to give Mourinho the season and part ways in May.
Click to expand...

I don't. Its clear we haven't progressed since his first season and if anything we are getting worse. Cut our losses now and bring Zidane in if he is as interested as he is supposed to be.

We need someone the players will get behind and someone almost a little naive, who will let our players play freely instead of worrying about defending every second of the game.
 
Greek9 said:
Were the common denominators Lvg and Moyes too? I find it quite hilarious that some people have now decided that Zidane will come in and magically play entertaining football and win things with this bunch, if not flat out stupid.
Click to expand...

Well yes the were crap dour managers.

Still both Rashford and Martial excelled under LVG. None of our attackers are excelling under Jose. That's kinda crazy. There are not all shit players.
 
Janson said:
Most important thing for a DM is positional awareness, and Herrera is the definition of a headless chicken. Why do you think he was instanly replaced if he was poty? Have you ever heard of any manager replacing his best player like this?

Player of the year voted by the fans, I rest my case.
Click to expand...
jeezus, he's not a headless chicken, that's really childish observation, he's got good positional awarness and presses really well, the problem is there is noone else to join, so it's a big achievement by Herrera to be even able to adapt his game and become POTY, With Matic we have even less pressing and are basically made to sit deep, what Mourinho prefers, does that takes us anywhere forward, not really. Herrera is not worse than Matic, he's just not a type of player Mourinho likes to paly with. You can even see he plays mcTominay who is utter shite, but because he's tall, absolute nonsense. If Herrera survives till the next manager and stays injury free, he could get his position back with a more progressive manager who likes to press and I believe our overall game will go up as well. Pogba and Matic dwell on the ball for too long our play is incredible slow, Pogba and Herrera did better together
 
SteveW said:
Well yes the were crap dour managers.

Still both Rashford and Martial excelled under LVG. None of our attackers are excelling under Jose. That's kinda crazy. There are not all shit players.
Click to expand...

There is no attacking plan. That is the problem. Even at the lower end of the pyramid when I played (I was no.9) and despite only being part time players, we spent HOURS in training playing attack vs defence and focusing on patterns of attack. If your RW has the ball and your RB makes an overlapping run, what should I do? What should the 10 do? If the RW makes a run across me, what should I do, spin off? look for a wall pass? What will the CM with the ball do? etc. It should all be coordinated. Should being the operative word. 3 or 4 standard situations are repeated ad nauseum until it becomes 2nd nature and you find yourself making a run without even thinking about it during a match.
If there is no focus on this, then you get what we have. A bunch of no doubt very talented players all getting in each others way with no clear idea of what they should be doing. Its fecking infuriating as its not a difficult thing to practise, if the person in charge has a clear idea about how he wants to attack.
 
BrianMcClair'sBarnet said:
So who is the right guy ?
Click to expand...

I don't get this question, do you have a time machine? No one ever knows what's going to happen, you just get people who you think has was it takes and hope, it could flop, or it could be a success. You think Madrid or Barca knew what was going to happen when they hired Zizou or Pep. You hire a good manager, whether he turns us to Barca MK2 or does a David Moyes, nobody fecking knows.
 
There is literally no scenario outside of a CL victory where Jose is still here next season.

So why bother keeping him?

Simple answer is the board believe we have a better chance of making top 4 with him than without him. That's reasonable from their perspective. If there was an outstanding candidate available it could change, but otherwise we're in zombie mode.

For the record I think Zidane is a big risk, and while I'd prefer a water bottle over Jose, I understand the board are different.
 
Beachryan said:
There is literally no scenario outside of a CL victory where Jose is still here next season.

So why bother keeping him?

Simple answer is the board believe we have a better chance of making top 4 with him than without him. That's reasonable from their perspective. If there was an outstanding candidate available it could change, but otherwise we're in zombie mode.

For the record I think Zidane is a big risk, and while I'd prefer a water bottle over Jose, I understand the board are different.
Click to expand...

That's complete incompetence though. The board give Jose a contract, then appear to lose trust in him during the summer. Then why not sack him then when he was moaning during preseason itself and get in Zidane or whoever? That would have helped us to build on our 2nd place. Instead, we have to trudge through the season with shite football, reluctant players and an aimless manager. And it might even blow up in our faces since Top 4 isn't guaranteed.
 
Kapardin said:
That's complete incompetence though. The board give Jose a contract, then appear to lose trust in him during the summer. Then why not sack him then when he was moaning during preseason itself and get in Zidane or whoever? That would have helped us to build on our 2nd place. Instead, we have to trudge through the season with shite football, reluctant players and an aimless manager. And it might even blow up in our faces since Top 4 isn't guaranteed.
Click to expand...
It's not a football board. It's pure business. And Jose is box office. And his record suggests he'll get us top 4 in the end, even if we don't believe it.

I don't agree with keeping him (or hiring him!) But I can understand from our board's perspective why it's too risky to get rid.

The problem of course is our board and its goals versus the fans and players goals.
 
Beachryan said:
There is literally no scenario outside of a CL victory where Jose is still here next season.

So why bother keeping him?

Simple answer is the board believe we have a better chance of making top 4 with him than without him. That's reasonable from their perspective. If there was an outstanding candidate available it could change, but otherwise we're in zombie mode.

For the record I think Zidane is a big risk, and while I'd prefer a water bottle over Jose, I understand the board are different.
Click to expand...

I sid similar things a month ago but I'm not sure anymore that Jose could lead the team to a top 4 finish. Spurs look a bit shaky now but they are a more stable team and will probably make the top 4. If Chelsea do not suddenly implode, top 4 will be a tough task this season.
 
Treble said:
I sid similar things a month ago but I'm not sure anymore that Jose could lead the team to a top 4 finish. Spurs look a bit shaky now but they are a more stable team and will probably make the top 4. If Chelsea do not suddenly implode, top 4 will be a tough task this season.
Click to expand...
Yep only solace I have is this should be last season of Jose.
 
I think it's deluded to see Zidane or anybody else as Manchester United's answer. Nothing will change about the mediocrity the club has descended to - and yes, given United's history, tradition and success it IS on the wane and is showing signs of what happens when huge clubs lose their way as happened to Liverpool yet to win the Premier League title.

Nothing will change the slide to mediocrity if we don't prioritise players who are leaders. There are no leaders. It wouldn't even take a Keano type player - Rio Ferdinand is a prime example of the kind of leader United needs. British lad from Peckenham, West Ham player, Cockney who made the journey from London to Leeds then into footballing history with Manchester United.

Leaders are not only captains. Rio was a leader hungry for success before he became captain, Gary Nev was a leader, never shut up on the pitch, got into the opposition's face without losing control, Cantona was there when games were tight and it looked like a goal would never come or be scored again to break the draw, Becks led by example, never giving up, covering every inch of the pitch, always finding a way to do better.

I think Mourinho is still the best option but somebody, somewhere at United needs to step up and demand United players. Not flavour of the month or year, not a fancy foreign player on a huge salary because some people thinking spending equals team building. Demand a team of those hungry for success and most of all, United players regardless of where they come from. But it is clear losing that homegrown backbone has been influential in this decline.
 
JohnnyKills said:
The big worry is that we're already bottom of the Big 6 mini-league and we've got to overhaul at least two of them to get top 4. I'd expect Arsenal to be as soft as ever, but what about the rest? The weakest starters have been Spurs and they beat us 3-0 at OT.

I'd be happy for us to get rid of Mourinho but where would that leave us? The stand-out candidates (Jardim, Pochettino) wouldn't leave their current jobs to join us and there's no guarantee Zidane would hit the ground running. When he took the Real Madrid job mid-season he was already at the club and he inherited a top side. There's no guarantee it would be as smooth for him at United, particularly as he doesn't even speak the language fluently.

I think we need to give Mourinho the season and part ways in May. It's clear he's not a good fit for us but, if we were going to get rid, we should have done it in the summer. Let's be fair and constructive towards the team until then.
Click to expand...
I somewhat agree. It's just soul destroying knowing the current manager is not the right man and his days are numbered. There's nothing to look forward to.
 
I am just resigned to the fact that he is not going anywhere unless we are out of Top 4. This season will be just like LVG's second year when we just meandered through.

We wont make top 4 and a new manager will come in during the summer and look at our squad to weigh through options. He will not sell any of the duds we have and the rut will continue.
 
whatwha said:
His win percentage is 54.82% with a good team in a shite league...
Click to expand...

Jardim won't be a bad choice. For 4-5 years developing youth, eliminating the dross and building a good team on basis while delivering the occasional top 4 finish in some years. We're definitely not going to win the league with him, but he'll develop youth, play good football while finishing in a good spot most of the seasons and peace will return again.

I honestly think it's time for us to take this long route. Short term fixes don't seem to be working.
 
el3mel said:
Jardim won't be a bad choice. For 4-5 years developing youth, eliminating the dross and building a good team on basis while delivering the occasional top 4 finish in some years. We're definitely not going to win the league with him, but he'll develop youth, play good football while finishing in a good spot most of the seasons and peace will return again.

I honestly think it's time for us to take this long route. Short term fixes don't seem to be working.
Click to expand...
How do you know we wouldn't win the league with him?
Alabaster Codify7 said:
We are not going to get someone like Jardim. Woodward will have none of it, he wants a superstar manager with a huge profile to show off to his sponsors. Zidane would be more like a Woodward appointment, not Jardim.
Click to expand...
Then that's an issue cause we need some one to revolutionise our club and fall into line of our club's traditions.
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
We are not going to get someone like Jardim. Woodward will have none of it, he wants a superstar manager with a huge profile to show off to his sponsors. Zidane would be more like a Woodward appointment, not Jardim.
Click to expand...

Wasn't our initial plan before LVG failed top 4 was to get Giggs to go Manager after 3 years of LVG?
 
el3mel said:
Jardim won't be a bad choice. For 4-5 years developing youth, eliminating the dross and building a good team on basis while delivering the occasional top 4 finish in some years. We're definitely not going to win the league with him, but he'll develop youth, play good football while finishing in a good spot most of the seasons and peace will return again.

I honestly think it's time for us to take this long route. Short term fixes don't seem to be working.
Click to expand...
Agree on the need for long term thinking. I'm already resigned to Utd not winning the league or CL for several years.
 
whatwha said:
His win percentage is 54.82% with a good team in a shite league...
Click to expand...

That's a good percentage and Monaco only has a good team every other season. The consistency relies totally on his ability to improve young players quickly and make the best use of average players.
 
Out of the title race before October and manager has failed to implement a style of play and won’t even try to.

This season will be similar to LVg’s second season, we might scrape fourth and win a cup but writing is on the wall, the manager will fail and we need to start all over again. But Mourinho won’t be sacked until it’s all over unless he engineers a way out.
 
The Purley King said:
There is no attacking plan. That is the problem. Even at the lower end of the pyramid when I played (I was no.9) and despite only being part time players, we spent HOURS in training playing attack vs defence and focusing on patterns of attack. If your RW has the ball and your RB makes an overlapping run, what should I do? What should the 10 do? If the RW makes a run across me, what should I do, spin off? look for a wall pass? What will the CM with the ball do? etc. It should all be coordinated. Should being the operative word. 3 or 4 standard situations are repeated ad nauseum until it becomes 2nd nature and you find yourself making a run without even thinking about it during a match.
If there is no focus on this, then you get what we have. A bunch of no doubt very talented players all getting in each others way with no clear idea of what they should be doing. Its fecking infuriating as its not a difficult thing to practise, if the person in charge has a clear idea about how he wants to attack.
Click to expand...

Agreed. It's often suggested that Jose doesn't really coach attackers. He puts a defensive structure in place and tells the attackers to do their own thing. That will only get you so far
 
Is it to much to ask for a coach with a clear idea of what he wants to do and thus can act accordingly in the market? Someone who can come in sand tells who and what doesn't fit in his plans and who does. This scattergun approach has led us to scattered results.
 
I like to think there is progressive improvements.. but tbh overall performances so far this season is too similar with the 2nd half of last season. Can't see any differences. Of course it's still early, but league points and performances is important early on, for league position and run of forms later.

Even if Mourinho is still a top class manager, and he did okay bringing us to this level stabilizing it, seriously getting doubtful whether he can bring this team to the next level.
  • Bringing in quality players? done
  • Bringing in promising young players? done
  • Kept hold of De Gea and young talents? done
  • get rid of deadwood? o-k-a-y job. Many have left, some that still stay are questionable.
  • Challenge competitions better post-SAF? done
  • get trophies? 2 so far, and reach final.
  • Playing youths and young players? doing it.
  • Winning league back? seems so far away.
  • Consistent attacking-entertaining football? nope, some games fun, but mostly no.
  • Team performances consistently good form and convincing? overall no, forms varies among players.
  • Players improving? Not much so far, the opposite seems more likely. Just one - Shaw so far.
 
I said it after the Spurs game. We'll have good performances mixed in with tumescent ones like the Wolves game, and plenty where we're even worse. It's how it's been for the majority of Jose's time here, there's always been excuses given but enough is enough.
 
Rifer said:
I like to think there is progressive improvements.. but tbh overall performances so far this season is too similar with the 2nd half of last season. Can't see any differences. Of course it's still early, but league points and performances is important early on, for league position and run of forms later.

Even if Mourinho is still a top class manager, and he did okay bringing us to this level stabilizing it, seriously getting doubtful whether he can bring this team to the next level.
  • Bringing in quality players? done
  • Bringing in promising young players? done
  • Kept hold of De Gea and young talents? done
  • get rid of deadwood? o-k-a-y job. Many have left, some that still stay are questionable.
  • Challenge competitions better post-SAF? done
  • get trophies? 2 so far, and reach final.
  • Playing youths and young players? doing it.
  • Winning league back? seems so far away.
  • Consistent attacking-entertaining football? nope, some games fun, but mostly no.
  • Team performances consistently good form and convincing? overall no, forms varies among players.
  • Players improving? Not much so far, the opposite seems more likely. Just one - Shaw so far.
Click to expand...

On your last point, you could put Lingard there too IMO.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.