The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

Is Mourinho’s time as United manager up?

  • Yes

    Votes: 2,296 77.1%

  • No

    Votes: 293 9.8%

  • Not yet - needs more time to see if he can turn it around

    Votes: 388 13.0%
  • Total voters
    2,977
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Nothing wrong at all with what Jose said post match. Players who moan they dont play get given a chance in a no pressure game, produce that and somehow hes supposed to be full of praise. Are you lot for real?

People can make any excuse they like. fact is, under Fergie we had fringe player come in and work their bollocks off. Last night we had players who couldnt be arsed. Not until the subs came on and put some fight in anyway.

Heres a challenge for you, what was Mourinho supposed to learn from the performance of that 11 last night?
 
Woodward isn't firing him until the fans raise their voice.

It's all nice & cosy right now by the same fans who wanted to give Moyes extra time.
 
Patrick08 said:
Poch philosophy needs mid we don't have here, I have seen him mostly succeed in a 4231 or occasionally in a 352 but he needs mid to control the mid by going in for the duels. None of pogba matic and fellani have that. Herrera too is not the one who controls the middle of the pitch and fred is still an unknown quantity here.

Zidane on the other hand developed a cohesive possession based style in Madrid which suited the players perfectly with his precise eye for detail and sharpness in crucial matches. I think that these set of players need that possession based cohesiveness as they can't control the middle of the pitch with their positional discipline and defensive discipline. And then there is a French connection. Zidane not having a proper philosophy is not true.
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You are saying our midfielders do not control the middle of the pitch like Sissoko, Wanyawa or Dembele do?
 
Everything is wrong with what José said post match. He put these players in a situation to fail, the system made no sense, there was no width, no speed and no logical game plan.
 
I publicly admit to voting no because no one has yet provided a viable path to success other than change managers again and hope for the best.

For the situation to improve we'd need to hire a manager of Jose's stature who can attract world class players

The manager would have to be able to secure the services of the likes of DDG, Pogba, Martial, Sanchez... or fire them where necessary and replace them with equal or better players.

The manager would have to recreate a stalwart defense without spending a lot of money... Valencia and Young are getting old... though Ashley still played decently this season... but in my eyes only Shaw played well and he still gets hurt a lot. Lindelof went from shambles to tolerable. But I don't know how anyone does better here without spending money.

Matic needs to be replaced as he's slowing down... unless you all believe he's playing like shit on purpose because he dislikes a manager who won't drop him.

Pogba needs to play box to box... instead of just offense.

Herrera, Mata, Fellaini have proven to be good loyal squad players... but a better player needs to be signed as a starter... none of those three have failed because of Mourinho's antics... maybe Herrera has been mistreated... but his performances have been erratic for the most part before Jose. Mata is skilled but limited physically... Fellaini is physical but limited skillwise.

My main criticism of Jose in the midfield is he played McTominay too much, and Pereira too little... as well as the signing of Fred... but according to him Fred only sucks because the defense is poor. I suppose I'd have to see Fred play with a good back four to know if Jose is right or merely making excuses.

He's played Lukaku too much, but whenever he's put Rashford and Lingard in for long periods... they've failed to take over his job and rise to the occasion. He's forced to keep using him because no one has done better, save Martial on the left who is immensely talented but still green and inconsistent.

Morata did no better... so it's hard to condemn him for the signing other than to wish in hindsight he was able to do better kissing Griezmann's prima donna ass, lure Aguero away when he was unhappy about being benched for Gabriel Jesus, or lure Diego Costa somehow.

I don't see how Pochettino changes all this. I don't see how being an inspiration makes Young, Valencia, Matic young... or replaces them with world class players. I don't see how being an inspiration makes Rashford and Lingard finish their chances... Maybe he keeps Martial and Pogba in the fold... but does he recruit new ones... especially as the board as decided to let the well run dry for awhile?

After watching the Valencia game... I too wanted a change... I felt exhausted from the constant disappointment of lackluster performances.

It's absolutely grueling watching them struggle against mediocre sides.

But unless your theory is that everyone is collectively on strike... I don't see how anything changes with a new manager and no major purchases

As I said earlier Martial and Shaw were both treated the worst yet still played well. What's the excuse of all those who were given chances over and over like Lukaku unable to score at home for 14 hours... or Matic who rewarded Jose's loyalty by constantly giving the ball away... or Lindelof and Smalling repeatedly making mindbogglingly poor mental errors?

It's the one's who Jose has given chances who are poor more than the one's who've been left out of the lineup... and as he said... when he puts them front in center in key games... instead of rising to the occasion... they've shown nothing.

I agree Jose can be a temperamental bitch but he's a passionate man from a more demonstrative culture... it's worked for him in the past to inspire... and it's also caused him to alienate people.

But the players have saved his job several times this year... so I think the narrative of him ruining the morale is overstated... they wouldn't have made all those comebacks if they truly wanted him gone. I think it's a few vocal alpha types on the squad who might want him gone... but I don't think they all are playing poorly in revolt.

I genuinely think they just aren't good enough and I'm a scared a new coach won't change much without replacing the defense and finding a better striker.
 
RedDevil@84 said:
That they all want him gone :D

But then he already knew it I guess. So he is right "Didn't learn anything new"
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Maybe, or perhaps its that they are a set of knobs who shame the shirt they wear. Notice how when the local lads came on, while not always the best performers, they always give their all.

One thing that is clear is that there is a divide in the dressing room between Man Utd players and those who occupy seats.
 
Asger said:
So he can't say the truth that everybody already know that those players are not good enough?
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Oh and why may that be? He's in his 3rd season and has spent 400 million pounds yet he talks like he just walked in yesterday . Or a pundit paid to talk about us from the side . His has been exposed hhorribly this season as a coach and his response is to go into self preservation mode throwing subtle digs at players nearly every press conference whilst not wasting any opportunity to remind us of his past achievements . I'm sorry but the "Oh woe be me, look at what I'm working with" schtick just doesn't make sense . Not when you've had the time and money he's been given to improve things
 
Cloud7 said:
This guy is the embodiment of a cancer to the club. He’s just a big tumor, growing on the side of Old Trafford, sucking the life out of the fans, the players and the club as a whole to nourish himself, while we all die a little more inside every day.

How on earth can a manager give repeated interviews where he talks about “this is why x y z player doesn’t play”. This isn’t the first time he’s done it and it won’t be the last. It’s disgraceful man management to cover for his own inadequacies, and yet people still question the commitment of the players. How can you go out there and be your best when this is what your manager says about you to the media? Players have feelings as well. At the top level of sports your confidence and how you go into a game mentally can affect your performance so much, yet all that Tumourinho does is tell everyone that the players aren’t good enough.
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Oh, I don't know; maybe you give 110% to prove him wrong? Maybe you turn to your teammates on the field, most of who are in the same situation, and you tell them, "let's show him and everybody what we're made of?"

Sadly, there was no such leader on the pitch yesterday. And I just don't understand how someone as athletic as Pogba can be so slow and ineffectual when pressing and playing defense.
 
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Sentient Meat said:
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I too voted no, because like you I don't believe theres a plan in place. I have zero faith in the board so rather we continued with Mourinho. Plus, hes still one of the best managers in the game, so there are very few candidates to replace him.

Its not a case of replacing for replacing sake, hoping that it causes a honeymoon period like we often see when clubs change manager without any real idea of the direction they are going. It just sets us even further back.

This lot are little more than a mob armed with pitchforks and Jose is the "witch" theyve set their sights on. Theres no logic to it, no real idea of what happens next, just pitchforks and torches.
 
Z1L3 said:
Oh, I don't know; maybe you prove him wrong?
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Never. Under no circumstances should millionaire professionals ever have to prove themselves. Dont you know Pogba is an 88 on Fifa. 89 man, thats how good he is.
 
Z1L3 said:
Oh, I don't know; maybe you prove him wrong?
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Can you tell me one manager that throws his players under the bus like Mourinho and got response from his players? Anyone? He's a joke of a man manager .
 
Fracture90 said:
It seems this thread has turned into something resembling a confession ground for apologists.
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Haha so true

I'd say I always see both sides of an argument but with this one, how anyone is still Mou in is beyond me. He somehow even makes winning seem hollow (on the rare occassions we win)
 
abdo99 said:
Can you tell me one manager that throws his players under the bus like Mourinho and got response from his players? Anyone? He's a joke of a man manager .
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Yet its incredibly odd that so many of his former players say otherwise. Why might this be? Perhaps they are better placed to form an opinion that you? Could it be that?

His man management style takes no prisoners, as we know. Weak, feeble men are going to crumble more often than not under managers like Jose. If you are a winner, then you will succeed under Mourinho, if you are not, then you wont.
 
Fracture90 said:
It seems this thread has turned into something resembling a confession ground for apologists.
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People asked, and implied only trolls would have a contrarian opinion.

That it would be impossible for a thinking person to disagree.

I agree something needs to change... but rotating managers every two or three years doesn't seem to be working so great either.

I asked people a few pages back to present a step by step plan that they would implement to actually fix the team.

Most people just say change the manager... end of.

For me personally, that doesn't inspire a whole lot of confidence.

Ranieri wins... then gets fired... Conte wins... then gets fired... Rafa is a hero... then he's trash...

There was a period where people were even concerned about Klopp and Pep

Right now Emery is the flavor of the month.

Were all these men good coaches one year... and then suddenly had strokes and became bad the next?

Or maybe this is just the nature of the beast. Someone must always pay the price when there is losing... no matter if they are good or not.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Haha so true

I'd say I always see both sides of an argument but with this one, how anyone is still Mou in is beyond me. He somehow even makes winning seem hollow (on the rare occassions we win)
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You can say that again! The most comical part about that is the vote swing after a match like that, people switching from "yes" to "no" or "nah, needs more time".
 
Sentient Meat said:
People asked, and implied only trolls would have a contrarian opinion.

That it would be impossible for a thinking person to disagree.

I agree something needs to change... but rotating managers every two or three years doesn't seem to be working so great either.

I asked people a few pages back to present a step by step plan that they would implement to actually fix the team.

Most people just say change the manager... end of.

For me personally, that doesn't inspire a whole lot of confidence.

Ranieri wins... then gets fired... Conte wins... then gets fired... Rafa is a hero... then he's trash...

There was a period where people were even concerned about Klopp and Pep

Right now Emery is the flavor of the month.

Were all these men good coaches one year... and then suddenly had strokes and became bad the next?

Or maybe this is just the nature of the beast. Someone must always pay the price when there is losing... no matter if they are good or not.
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Mate your style of writing is giving me ADD.
 
WensleyMU said:
Yet its incredibly odd that so many of his former players say otherwise. Why might this be? Perhaps they are better placed to form an opinion that you? Could it be that?

His man management style takes no prisoners, as we know. Weak, feeble men are going to crumble more often than not under managers like Jose. If you are a winner, then you will succeed under Mourinho, if you are not, then you wont.
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Man Luka Modric must be especially weak and feeble. He was voted the worst signing of a season under Mourinho.
 
Asger said:
So he can't say the truth that everybody already know that those players are not good enough?
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How does doing this help anyone but himself though? I mean it’s not going to make the players play any better is it. It’s just detrimental to the team if anything.
 
Sentient Meat said:
Double spacing is preferred by professors when writing a wall of text. You can dislike what I write but stick to the content.
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I'm not a professor, so you don't have to worry about that.

I'm trying to stick to the content but it's hard when you've writing style is making it impossible to read the content in the first place buddy.
 
PepsiCola said:
Man Luka Modric must be especially weak and feeble. He was voted the worst signing of a season under Mourinho.
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Odd that a poll would have just one man voting, Mourinho. Unless it was a poll of the public, who voted him as such, and it might have been a running theme in his career to start slowly at a new club (he was pretty shit for spurs at first too). That and having no pre season at all...

None of that means hes weak though. Some players take a bit to settle. Like Evra, or Vidic did under Fergie.
 
WensleyMU said:
Odd that a poll would have just one man voting, Mourinho. Unless it was a poll of the public, who voted him as such, and it might have been a running theme in his career to start slowly at a new club (he was pretty shit for spurs at first too). That and having no pre season at all...

None of that means hes weak though. Some players take a bit to settle. Like Evra, or Vidic did under Fergie.
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KDB and Salah must be weak as well.
 
You have teams out there fighting relegation and their managers are far more positive than Mourhino - it's just pitiful
 
Z1L3 said:
Oh, I don't know; maybe you give 110% to prove him wrong? Maybe you turn to your teammates on the field, most of who are in the same situation, and you tell them, "let's show him and everybody what we're made of?"

Sadly, there was no such leader on the pitch yesterday. And I just don't understand how someone as athletic as Pogba can be so slow and ineffectual when pressing and playing defense.
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Sure that sounds so inspirational on paper. “Let’s all go out there and do our best to prove him wrong guys!” Very movie like. The real world doesn’t work like that. When you have your confidence systematically beaten out of you it’s very hard to pick yourself up and play to your maximum capacity, without even getting into how poorly coached our team looks in the first place.
 
Cloud7 said:
Sure that sounds so inspirational on paper. “Let’s all go out there and do our best to prove him wrong guys!” Very movie like. The real world doesn’t work like that. When you have your confidence systematically beaten out of you it’s very hard to pick yourself up and play to your maximum capacity, without even getting into how poorly coached our team looks in the first place.
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Erm... That's exactly how the real world works. People out to prove doubters wrong. Not just superstar footballers but every day people like you or me. People who have been put down for all sorts of reasons, whether as a form of motivation, or humiliation. The world is filled with people like that.

The fantasy here is believing you are above criticism. To good to be called out for your failings. And this applies to far to many of our players far to often. But we do have those who will prove themselves. Players many posters here have trashed repeatedly like Rashford, Martial, Shaw, Smalling, Fellaini and others but who always want to prove themselves. Then we have players like Pogba who should be incredible, but just isn't, at least not often enough.

Tomorrow, when you go to work, or college or wherever you go, take a look around you. Many of the people you see are out to prove a point. That's the real world.
 
WensleyMU said:
Erm... That's exactly how the real world works. People out to prove doubters wrong. Not just superstar footballers but every day people like you or me. People who have been put down for all sorts of reasons, whether as a form of motivation, or humiliation. The world is filled with people like that.
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But when the doubter in question has never admitted to making a mistake and has a history of acting like a petulant man child?
 
WensleyMU said:
Yet its incredibly odd that so many of his former players say otherwise. Why might this be? Perhaps they are better placed to form an opinion that you? Could it be that?

His man management style takes no prisoners, as we know. Weak, feeble men are going to crumble more often than not under managers like Jose. If you are a winner, then you will succeed under Mourinho, if you are not, then you wont.
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Modric says Hello, and the whole Madrid team.

Followed by Salah , KDB , Hazard and Costa !!

The players who are grossly under performing are Matic, Lukaku, Pogba, Fred, Baily, Sanchez and all of them are Jose signings.
 
WensleyMU said:
Yet its incredibly odd that so many of his former players say otherwise. Why might this be? Perhaps they are better placed to form an opinion that you? Could it be that?

His man management style takes no prisoners, as we know. Weak, feeble men are going to crumble more often than not under managers like Jose. If you are a winner, then you will succeed under Mourinho, if you are not, then you wont.
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His style of management and personality are massively contradictory. He talks about players being spoilt while acting the same at twice their age. The image of the commanding officer worthy of respect quickly fades when one gets to know what he's really like.
 
WensleyMU said:
I too voted no, because like you I don't believe theres a plan in place. I have zero faith in the board so rather we continued with Mourinho. Plus, hes still one of the best managers in the game, so there are very few candidates to replace him.

Its not a case of replacing for replacing sake, hoping that it causes a honeymoon period like we often see when clubs change manager without any real idea of the direction they are going. It just sets us even further back.

This lot are little more than a mob armed with pitchforks and Jose is the "witch" theyve set their sights on. Theres no logic to it, no real idea of what happens next, just pitchforks and torches.
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Perhaps Chelsea should of persisted with him, you know when he took them to fecking 16th in his third season? Instead they hired a interim manager that you could say was a downgrade on Mourinho yet results improved then got Conte in.
Too many similarities but hey, lets just blame the players. Mourinhos not at fault, if he had Maguire.. Liverpool would be looking upwards.

Weird though, how Liverpool not only have played good football they're now getting consistent results and even outpacing any of Fergusons teams in the league. They've spent 20mill more? Utd are so far away from that under Mourinho.
Shite football, shite tactics, shite results. Shite attack, shite midfield, shite defence, shite squad players. Comebacks is about all this team has this season but lets persist with Mourinho while he shites on everything Utd, while living in a fecking hotel room.
 
Sentient Meat said:
I publicly admit to voting no because no one has yet provided a viable path to success other than change managers again and hope for the best.

For the situation to improve we'd need to hire a manager of Jose's stature who can attract world class players

The manager would have to be able to secure the services of the likes of DDG, Pogba, Martial, Sanchez... or fire them where necessary and replace them with equal or better players.

The manager would have to recreate a stalwart defense without spending a lot of money... Valencia and Young are getting old... though Ashley still played decently this season... but in my eyes only Shaw played well and he still gets hurt a lot. Lindelof went from shambles to tolerable. But I don't know how anyone does better here without spending money.

Matic needs to be replaced as he's slowing down... unless you all believe he's playing like shit on purpose because he dislikes a manager who won't drop him.

Pogba needs to play box to box... instead of just offense.

Herrera, Mata, Fellaini have proven to be good loyal squad players... but a better player needs to be signed as a starter... none of those three have failed because of Mourinho's antics... maybe Herrera has been mistreated... but his performances have been erratic for the most part before Jose. Mata is skilled but limited physically... Fellaini is physical but limited skillwise.

My main criticism of Jose in the midfield is he played McTominay too much, and Pereira too little... as well as the signing of Fred... but according to him Fred only sucks because the defense is poor. I suppose I'd have to see Fred play with a good back four to know if Jose is right or merely making excuses.

He's played Lukaku too much, but whenever he's put Rashford and Lingard in for long periods... they've failed to take over his job and rise to the occasion. He's forced to keep using him because no one has done better, save Martial on the left who is immensely talented but still green and inconsistent.

Morata did no better... so it's hard to condemn him for the signing other than to wish in hindsight he was able to do better kissing Griezmann's prima donna ass, lure Aguero away when he was unhappy about being benched for Gabriel Jesus, or lure Diego Costa somehow.

I don't see how Pochettino changes all this. I don't see how being an inspiration makes Young, Valencia, Matic young... or replaces them with world class players. I don't see how being an inspiration makes Rashford and Lingard finish their chances... Maybe he keeps Martial and Pogba in the fold... but does he recruit new ones... especially as the board as decided to let the well run dry for awhile?

After watching the Valencia game... I too wanted a change... I felt exhausted from the constant disappointment of lackluster performances.

It's absolutely grueling watching them struggle against mediocre sides.

But unless your theory is that everyone is collectively on strike... I don't see how anything changes with a new manager and no major purchases

As I said earlier Martial and Shaw were both treated the worst yet still played well. What's the excuse of all those who were given chances over and over like Lukaku unable to score at home for 14 hours... or Matic who rewarded Jose's loyalty by constantly giving the ball away... or Lindelof and Smalling repeatedly making mindbogglingly poor mental errors?

It's the one's who Jose has given chances who are poor more than the one's who've been left out of the lineup... and as he said... when he puts them front in center in key games... instead of rising to the occasion... they've shown nothing.

I agree Jose can be a temperamental bitch but he's a passionate man from a more demonstrative culture... it's worked for him in the past to inspire... and it's also caused him to alienate people.

But the players have saved his job several times this year... so I think the narrative of him ruining the morale is overstated... they wouldn't have made all those comebacks if they truly wanted him gone. I think it's a few vocal alpha types on the squad who might want him gone... but I don't think they all are playing poorly in revolt.

I genuinely think they just aren't good enough and I'm a scared a new coach won't change much without replacing the defense and finding a better striker.
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Why do people over think this whole situation. Hire a competent manager. Give him 400 million in 3 season and we'll be heading in the direction.
 
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